Naveed, 58s:

So I feel like kind of rewinding, because anybody who's missed that first bit out. I was basically saying to yourself that obviously in the last six months I feel like as a student, I have leveled up who I am as an individual, what I stand for, how I study, how I approach things and kind of having foresight. Now, and I think, as a student, maybe you could reflect on this as well. But we don't really look bigger picture enough and sometimes we're just caught in the moment. We're just like I need to study, I need to get year one done, I need to get year two done and that's it. We're not really looking at what is this leading to right? So a lot of the time, speaking to those that have been there and done that is helpful, but we don't touch base enough with our peers and I think when we understand what people are going through emotionally and mentally that are in the same boat as you, then that's where you find the gaps that you might need to put your energies into. So I don't know you tell me, what was it like at uni for you, like, did you have that kind of experience as well, where, if you didn't look bigger picture, or were you different mindset?

Dr James, 1m 57s:

I, I thought completely differently whenever I was student. I just do not see the same the world the same way as I do now at all. I was, so I just saw things with blinkers on. I was like we do this, then we do that, then we qualify, then we get a job and blah, blah, blah. And when I was a student, right, I remember when I was a student, I, um, I was just like, man, I don't really have to, I'm just gonna get this done and then think about the rest of my life. You know, because I'm gonna be chilling after that, I'm gonna be a dentist. And now I look back and I'm like, wow, there was so many opportunities there, as in. That was just a completely crazy that I thought like that. Because there are kids out there who are 21, 22, 23. I read a book, uh, a little while ago and it was called retired at 21, right, and that sounds to a lot of people like, oh, they roll their eyes and whatever, but it was just. It was basically just talking about the new, new age of, uh, digital businesses and how that, for some kids out there, the penny drops so you can do this stuff incredibly young, like when they're 15, like when they're 16, and then they have they go through their rocky horror cut scene, right, okay, you know where. He's like running up the steps, that's it, that's it the meat and the music's playing, all of that, right, and you know that scene. They say that every business goes through that scene, every individual goes through that scene and it really simply takes like four or five years for somebody to get there. But they do that because they do that so young, that penny drops with regards to all that stuff incredibly early for them and they can potentially get themselves to a stage where they've basically just checked out of the system. They've, they've exited the matrix at that age. You know, and I guess I guess, with relevance to this podcast and with relevance to the audience and what have you know, it doesn't I? I would hope that when people hear that, that we're not coming across like how can I say this, saying that that's something that everybody can aspire towards, I hope that's received in the sense that it makes us think to herself, right, like wow, this can be done. Whoa, this is crazy, this is out there. What can I learn from those individuals, rather than just reject it and just be like well, that's, that's fake, because it's so easy to do that, isn't it? It's so easy to be cynical about everything let me play devil's advocate here, right?

Naveed, 4m 7s:

do you think that those people although as much as we are, you know, grass is always grieving right? We all aspire. We wish that we could have been retired at 21. Let's be real. Are they not missing out a massive chunk of life experience by not going through it? What do you think?

Dr James, 4m 26s:

I actually do agree with you, because if I was that age and I was financially free, I would have just been. There were so many experiences that I went through that were good for me, as in they made me grow mature, and I think if that would have happened to me too fast, I would have just been the most insufferable human being of all time. Right, because it definitely is your law. It's it's way more likely that that stuff will go to your head at that age, right, like it's just way more likely. Um, I hope I wouldn't have been, but there's definitely a greater likelihood yeah so you are right, like it's definitely not all about the one lens in terms of that one lens, the lens of wealth and the way, the lens of making money, you know it's, there's, there's a lot more to us as human beings. So, yeah, I do agree, I, I, I, I, I wish you could have, I wish there was some way that you could have that, but also have those experiences that ground you as well, because that's the ultimate person right there. Usually it's one or the other, really not always, I think. I think you know what it can be it's kind of like it's.

Naveed, 5m 39s:

It's kind of like you know those people that win the lottery and they've never been rich and and then they never hold on to the money, do they? There was a study, wasn't there, or a statistic, and I'm going off, I'm paraphrasing almost here. But hardly anyone that's ever won the lottery, that hasn't come from money or hasn't grafted for money, has actually retained that level of financial freedom. They've always blown it because they don't have that life experience to do with it. Now I get it. There's a caveat here. These youngsters, they might have found the way to graft quick and efficiently to then become retired at 21. But going through the rough and the tough parts of life is so important. I remember when I was about that age mid-20s, let's say I landed a quite decent job as a national account manager. So that's my previous life and if you add up with the car allowances, the housing allowances and all the benefits and bonuses, I was getting beyond a six-figure salary. And for somebody in their mid-20s, getting beyond a six-figure salary back then is unheard of and I didn't deserve it. I'll be completely honest with you a six-figure salary back then it was unheard of and I didn't deserve it. I'll be completely honest with you. I think maybe my CV was overly glamorized. I'm not going to lie about it. Half of that probably wasn't even real right. And I'm on your podcast and I can almost do a little bit of what you do, which is chat for England, right, or Ireland, in your case, right. You do which is chat for England, right, or Ireland, in your case, right, and the idea is that sells, that really does sell. So if you can do that, people just buy into your personality. Problem with that was I was getting paid a hell of a lot for doing not so much and I kind of thought that was life. I just thought, well, you know, whatever, I'll just roll through the punches, I'll get what it is, I'll get paid for it for just being me and a bit like you were saying, it is quite. You know, it's an insufferable type of personality because then you believe, you believe the hype, so you kind of walk around like you own the place, but then you don't have the whereabouts or the knowledge of how to look after that money because you just think it's going to be endless and you think you deserve it. So because of that I ended up. I still remember this I would eat at the most lavish restaurants that a guy my age should not be eating at. I bought a BMW 3 Series, a boy on finance. The finance payment was stupid, but back then you don't think about it, you don't think about interest rates, you don't think about terms for payments, nothing. You just think, well, I can afford three grand a month, I'll do it. So there was you know you. Just you haven't got that life experience. This is what I mean. There is a dangerous path to step on, which is why I'm, very personally speaking. I'm so happy and grateful that I've got people like yourself and others in my network that I can learn from, whether that's directly or whether that's from listening to your podcasts or your seminars. I can learn from whether that's directly or whether that's from listening to your podcasts or your seminars, webinars, whatever it might be, and other people that have said you know, this is what we've encountered, this is where we're at now and these are the learnings in between, and I always say it takes a smart man to learn from you know your mistakes, but it takes a genius to learn from someone else's, because you have to, like, bury that pride, right, you really have to bury that ego and say do you know what? I'm not going to take that risk, I'm going to learn. I didn't do that. I've only just started doing that because, like I say, I've got people like you now and others that are really paving the way, and I just wish, in hindsight, I'd done that when I was younger. But that's how the cookie crumbles, isn't it?

Dr James, 8m 56s:

Well, you know what? There's one yes to virtually everything that you said there, in fact, everything really. That's all true, and I guess what that reminds me of is it's the old adage it's about how much you earn, but it's also about how you earn it right, like that is equally important, if not more important, side of the equation that doesn't get as much airtime. So what I mean mean, I mean there's those articles that you see on the internet from time to time and it's like middle class, middle class, 200k a year, but brooke as hell, right, oh, yeah, yeah is what goes, comes in, goes out. And what you have to remember is right, if you're employed and you're earning 200 grand, you're only really getting 100k in your hand, right, and and I say only really like that's nothing, but like that is good money, obviously. But if you've got two kids in private school, if you've got a nice car and you've got a really nice mortgage on a nice house, that's going to go real fast, right. And then all of a sudden you look, you have the appearance of somebody's wealthy. You probably are wealthy like you are, I guess but you're still in that zone, right where you're gonna have to be doing that for like 20, 30 years to get to the point where you eventually become financially free. So I guess what that reminds me of it's like yes, you're earning your money, um, but we're because of the boat that we're, because of the train that we're on, or because of that, how that specific road looks like. That is the destination, that's how that looks, and I'm not saying that you shouldn't do that. I'm just saying that we want to play games that we want to win right. Play games that you want the outcome of right, and if you want more, then you might have to do different things or see things in a different way. But the trouble is, what are those things, what's real and what's not real? And that's what I see a lot whenever it comes to finance, because there's so much hype and crap like that on twitter and what have you um, it's genuinely hard to discern. Like it's genuinely hard to discern, you know, and even even for people who and especially for people who don't really necessarily know that much about finance, like they literally don't know what real looks like or what normal is, so they kind of tar everything with one brush and then that holds them back from making the right decisions, because they just think everything's a scam. You see people like that as well all the time, right, and, um, you know, I'm not saying this in any way, I'm definitely not saying this in a way to like be diminishing of anybody. You know, I'm these are observations and I'm sharing them from the point of view, uh, of the, the point of view that they are interesting observations, and I really think the remedy is just to go and learn about money and how it works, because then you've got more of a nose for this stuff. Just to circle back to what I was saying a second ago it's about how much you earn, but it's also about how you earn it right, and then if we kind of take that to the next level, it's like okay, cool. So let's say that we invest in assets, or let's say that we have a business which has some sort of recurring revenue model, then we know that there's going to be a certain level of income that comes in every month. That is not necessarily linked to our time, cause it was basically the only two ways that you can do that. I mean it comes from assets, right, like it literally comes from assets, right. And if we're going to talk about assets that give you cashflow, there's only really like three. I mean it's either going to be property, a business, or you can use stocks and funds that way, but it's not advisable because you really want to roll them up and have them compound. Have you ever seen on those investing apps where it's like they have a fund and then at the end of the fund's name and brackets, it'll say income, it'll say inc or acc? Have you noticed that? You know what that means? no yeah, this is really cool. This is a brilliant factoid right acc is an accumulation fund, so what that means is um. What that means is that it automatically reinvests the dividends in your behalf income fund will pay you the dividends every month or whatever you know, periodically, yeah, and they will appear as cash in the balance of your isa or your pension or whatever account they're in. So if you want to, if you haven't, this is a big slip up that a lot of people go through. Right, it's like they have their money in inc funds. They want their 10 a year from the s&p, but where the where the actual breakdown of that 10 comes from, is six percent increase in value of the stocks, capital appreciation, and four percent three to four percent is from the dividends, right? So you're not getting your 10 unless you're manually reinvesting the money. If you have an income fund, it's an acc fund, right, but anyway, I just love that. I think that was one of the coolest things ever I don't know.

Naveed, 13m 45s:

I had no idea about it yeah, is it?

Dr James, 13m 47s:

it's cool the right word, I don't know.

Naveed, 13m 48s:

I just like little stuff like that, yeah no, no it is, I think, because most people wouldn't know that. I don't know that I mean one thing. One thing you did say, right, uh, whether you meant pension in in its most raw form or whether you meant pension in terms of a future fund. But I know recently in the UK whether you've got your finger in the pulse with that, but the Labour government have obviously moved pensions now to is it 68, 67 years old, that you can only claim 25% of it, and then when you're 72 or 74, you can claim the rest of it.

Dr James, 14m 21s:

I believe that's for the nhs pension. I think sips, as in private pensions, are still 57 okay, but most. I think they're actually currently 55, but they will be. They will be 57 in 2027. So for most people listening this podcast, it's going to be 57 before you can get okay, okay, okay, perfect, perfect.

Naveed, 14m 39s:

Because because I I've always had a qualm with, with the idea of, uh, a pension I mean a pension fund if it's done privately, for doing it yourself, I think it's, it's uh, maybe you will disagree with this, uh, maybe you won't um, I guess that's probably your shtick, really, but uh, for me it's very much a case of like the raw form of a pension. I I try to educate people that it's not worth it. Do it yourself, manage your own portfolio, manage your own investments, understand it, learn from the likes of yourself, learn from all the information online. But, as you quite rightly said before, just make sure you're going through the right avenues, because there's so much BS online nowadays that people end up being scammed. So I think raising the awareness and bringing more light to it is so important. But a pension in itself, you're paying someone to do something you do yourself, and then you're not getting the return on it anyway. So you know, if you're going to keep it simple, just doing the SMP and do it yourself. I've never understood why people don't do this. Why is it so hard for people to grip this? You tell me.

Dr James, 15m 35s:

A few reasons. So here's what I've seen in my experience. So you're right, the very first thing to weigh up is is it actually the right thing for us and our goals right? And the received wisdom is, as in the wisdom that our parents would tell us is everyone should have a pension, right? Yeah, yeah and perhaps lots of people should, but not everyone of you ask me, and there's such. There is such a thing as having a pension too early in your life. If you do ask me. Interesting and the reason why slightly counterintuitive that you might expect. You know that's slightly counterintuitive versus what you might expect someone to say, or someone maybe like me to say, but the reason is you've heard of the lifetime allowance.

Naveed, 16m 17s:

Yes, yes, yes.

Dr James, 16m 19s:

They don't have that anymore. But what that is is that, basically, when your pension exceeds a certain certain threshold of value, that you get taxed very heavily upon withdrawal of. Upon crystallization now, they brought that in 2012. Okay, at one point, no, we'd have to, we'd have to fact check this, but it's something along these lines. You'd have to get the exact stats right. It brought it in initially in 2012. The original threshold at which you begin to become taxed very heavily was like two million. Now, you might think, because of inflation, they increased it every year. It actually they actually didn't. It went down to like 1.25 in 2017 and then it remained there for a long time.

Naveed, 17m 1s:

Super and I'm sorry. What was, what was the? What was the tax? Roughly on that. So you said they taxed off that I believe it was something.

Dr James, 17m 8s:

There was like an extra 25 percent levy on your withdrawals, I believe. So it basically doubled the tax on money that was over that. It was, it was proportional right. So it was doubled the tax on money that was over that. It was proportional right. So it was only the money that was over that limit when you withdrew. So if your pension was $2 million, the limit was $1 million. For simple math, if you took out $100,000 a year, normally it would be taxed at a certain level, but there was an extra 25% on that tax, on the extra half, basically. But anyway, it's complicated, but anyway. So, um, I was gonna say where was I, where was I going with that? Yeah, so anyway, um, that was a thing. It's no longer a thing. I believe it was. Was it? Was it? Rishi sunak scrapped it, maybe, but they will a thousand percent bring that back right, because it's a big old honey trap, right, like you put the money in and then they've got it and then if they change the rules, you you can't get it, like that's literally the point right, like it's already in there. Yeah, so if you think about it, if someone everybody's always encouraged to do that and then they bring it back, which in my opinion, they categorically will do at some stage. Uh, because the pension, yeah it's, it's a big, there's a lot of money in pensions. It's too, it's too juicy for the government not to not to interfere with it. Uh, but yeah, just to run that off super duper quick. Uh, all I was going to say is, if you begin contributing relatively early in your career, you're way more likely to exceed that threshold when it does return.

Naveed, 18m 45s:

If you ask me I've got a question after then. So so this is. This is almost like a lag, isn't it? There's almost like a legacy mindset generation to generation. We get fed financial advice from the generation above us. The government takes advantage of that, and then I guess we as a generation will be telling our kids don't trust the government and pensions, do it yourself. Is there now almost a risk that they will then get involved with private investments? Because people will slowly I mean, the generation is coming, they will slowly be forced away from a traditional pension and more into maybe a private portfolio is? Is there risk now that the government are going to say, well, we're losing money here because no one's taking a traditional pension. We now need to find a way to to dig into this these upcoming generations. How can you see that panning out?

Dr James, 19m 34s:

yeah, well, I mean, if they need money, they'll just look for places that they can generate tax from right. There's only there's only two ways a government can make more money. They'll just look for places that they can generate tax from right. There's only, there's only two ways a government can make more money they can increase taxes or they can print more money. There's only two ways, right? Uh, so it depends how cornered they are at the time, doesn't it? I guess, and I think everything is on the cards. I mean, people talk about the them raiding isis and changing the rules on those. If you actually look up how much wealth in this country is stored in ISIS versus how much is in pensions, it's something like a factor of 50 more in pensions, basically because they've been around for so much longer, right? Yeah, of course, and everyone has a pension, or at least lots of people do, because it's usually arranged through their work. You've got a cat, by the way.

Naveed, 20m 19s:

I have two, oh you do. Um, you got a cat, by the way. I have two, oh you did. Yeah, I'm fostering cats.

Dr James, 20m 25s:

One of them's leaving next week, so oh, that's nice anyway, not to digress. Uh, where were we? What were we just talking about?

Naveed, 20m 29s:

uh, you said there, there there were. There's a lot more pensions that there are uh, ices proportionally, there's so much uh stored in pensions.

Dr James, 20m 37s:

Because is ice is having been around that long? Ice has been around like 15, 10 years before. They were called like peps they had different names and it was only. It was only 3k that you could put in and I believe that you used to get taxed on the dividends in them. Um, but yeah, this is all obscure finance factoids, but yeah, I says I've not been around that long. That's. That's why when someone's a nicer millionaire, it's like really, people talk about that like it's you know, it's, it's it's quite impressive, right, because you've obviously been able to grow your money somehow, you know. Um, but yeah, I says not been around that long. Pensions have been around forever, ever you know, and most people have pensions, even if they haven't set one up themselves, because it's through their workplace. And then the other thing to remember is that 95, I heard a crazy stat the other day number of people in what percentage of people in the UK have opened?

Naveed, 21m 32s:

an ISA Five. That's a lot You've got to be more.

Dr James, 21m 38s:

Yeah, you nailed it. I actually came over the way there because I said 90, and then I cut myself, figured that one no, I was trying to do it.

Naveed, 21m 46s:

I was trying to do it based off of, uh, the stat you said earlier that a lot more people have got uh pensions right. So, or that's more the the traditional routes. I was just thinking, surely it can't be. I was going to go a lot higher, to be honest with you, because I thought, surely, like uh, people are investing in their futures, but clearly not five flipping percent of the uk population have an isa bananas right.

Dr James, 22m 10s:

Um, I must admit, though, dentists are better. In my experience it's it's proportionally higher. I think it's maybe like 20 to 30 percent. Uh, oh, dentists who have isis, because, well, I mean, I need to get some actual data on that. You know, that's purely anecdotal, it's just me licking my finger and putting it in the air a little bit, uh. But the reason I say that is because when I pick up the phone to people, when we get to talking about this stuff, it tends to come up, and usually most people have asses. But then again, what you have to remember is, by the sheer fact that we picked up the phone to each other, there's a good chance that they've self-selected as somebody who's into finance in the first place and we get to talking because they're already interested in it, whereas I probably wouldn't really attract people that aren't as much. So yeah, it would be good to get some objective statistics on that, but I definitely, I definitely reckon dentists, as a rule of thumb more of them proportionally have ices. But yeah, what is categorically true is that only five percent of the uk population have ices. And one more teeny thing just to round that off. When we do get to talking about the dentist sizes there's, I could probably out of having that conversation. Maybe like 100, 200 times, probably more, probably more than that, I don't know. I reckon there's only ever been maybe two, three people that I've thought to myself you have it nailed Like this is just completely optimized as in. This can't physically be any better than what you have. Most of the time there's something to tweak for other people. Most of the time, whether that be a better platform or a better fund, or you have most of the time there's something to tweak for other people. Most of the time, whether that be a better platform or a better fund or reduce the fees or whatever, there's always a little teeny, teeny, teeny thing. Uh, even if I'm just tell them there and then that's fine, right, but yeah, it's so. What I'm trying to say is that of the five percent who do have isis, the people who are using it like to the very best they possibly can. It's like maybe like point one there we are. That is nuts if you're a uk dentist and you wish to add to your verifiable cpd portfolio for this learning cycle, it's worth knowing that dentistry invest has over a thousand minutes of free verifiable CPD on our website. Just simply head over to wwwdennis2investcom and hit the video slash CPD tab and you can go right ahead and help yourself to as much CPD as you need. You'll also find a link that takes you straight to the CPD section of the Dennis to invest website in the podcast description. Also find a link that takes you straight to the CPD section of the Dentistry Invest website in the podcast description.

Naveed, 24m 45s:

I've got to ask you something right, and this is something that I guess some of the younger folk argue, I think, getting closer to my age now I'm going to be 39 next month, for example, so I'm maybe almost sitting on the fence, but and I don't know whether I can articulate this well enough Let me try. So people almost say what's the point of investing so heavily for the future when I'm not going to use that much money when I'm older? Because all of the drive and the passion and the crazy things I want to do in my younger years, that's going to want to drive a Ferrari when I'm 60 or 70. I'm not going to be bothered about living a lavish lifestyle and eating at fancy restaurants. Yeah, I might go here and there, but it's never going to be as much as the Instagram years and the TikTok years of your 20s and your 30s. Why should I invest so much in my future when I can just use it now, enjoy that time and just be more comfortable in my later life? So surely you get this ask asked how do you deal with it? What's your advice? Because I'm speaking as students all the damn time, and this is, this is what they're always saying so. What's your thoughts on that?

Dr James, 25m 53s:

it's, it's the eternal quandary. Right, it's the eternal quandary. Yeah, and absolutely. That is categorically true and I feel like there is I'm actually going to say something right now. That's slightly counterintuitive and it's actually a really big way that you can poke a hole in a lot of inverted commas advice out there, right, so you think about it. It's kind of like going off the logic on what we've just said. Right, it's kind of like you have this pie right that comes in every month and that that is your income, right, and it's all about how we divide up the pie, right? So if the pie is this size and we want to put this much away for a future, but we want to take some more of the pie and have some fun in the here and now, there's two versions of us. Right, there's here and now and there's the future, the past. That already happened. It's gone, right. So when it comes to our money, it's either right now or is at some point in the future, yeah, so, yeah, what you're saying is, and what you're, what you're articulating is that a lot of people feel like they're not sure how to slice and dice that pie. Right, that's it, yeah. Here's the slightly counterintuitive thing which is maybe a little controversial, but I'm gonna say anyway, we love it on this podcast. My friend, I think you just have to be real right. You know, and it's, it's. I'm not saying that this is easy to do. I'm definitely not making it out that this is easy to do at all. What is about to come out of my mouth? Think about it. That whole debate and argument is precluded on the pie staying the same size, because if the pie does this, ah then all of a sudden and what I'm doing in my hands people who are listening on the podcast is I'm, I'm making them bigger, right, we're gonna find a big bite, big bite, yeah, a big old pie. Uh, then what that means is that you actually potentially have enough to do both. And dentists do that without even realizing it, right, and here's why they do it. Here's why they do it, navid, right, because think about even maxing out your ISA every single year 20,000 pounds, and, by the way, that's post-tax that money, right, so that realistically means you've earned like 30 to 40, between those numbers, right, most people would kind of never dream of having 40k from their pay slip every month, right, spare. Or their pay slip every year, spare, right, like. That's just an insane reality for a lot of people. And for cent, with dennis, we're so casual, we're just like, oh, I max out my isa, just a bit unsure what to do next. Or sometimes it's like max out my isa, max out my pension, um, where does the money go? Now, you know what I mean. And it's like they're you know I say this in a nice way sometimes they're like oh, my god, I don't know what to do and I'm like, well, that's great, but if we actually step back here, you're crushing it. From your ISO alone, you're going to be a millionaire when you're 50, right, and like, a lot of people just aren't in that position, right? So dentists have made the pie bigger without realizing they've actually done this. With what necessarily even realizing? Right, because we don't really have context so good outside of our own lives, right, but if you think about it, if we focus on things that will generate us income, whether that be our dentistry or whether that be our assets that actually makes the pie bigger and you potentially have enough for both. Not as easy to do. Not as easy to do.

Naveed, 29m 15s:

It's completely precluded on the pie staying the same size. I like that. I like that. It's such a weird, weird way of thinking that that is sadly how we all think. We just think it's just like this, constant, isn't it? But the truth is, yeah, geez, the pie made it simple.

Dr James, 29m 29s:

The pie made it simple by the way, I just made that up, the pie thing. It kind of worked. I did I just I was just like, hey, it's kind of like a pie, you know. I knew that. I obviously I I knew the kind of philosophy behind it, but I was like I'm, I'm gonna take this pie thing and run with it and it actually oh yeah, you're gonna make a full episode of just in a pie.

Naveed, 29m 48s:

Yeah, I like it. That's a good idea. That for me, it's kind of like I'm almost at this weird junction because because if I had done this, say when I was, you know, 23, 24, finished uni, done foundation, you're like I feel like I could almost do that. I'm constantly playing this game in my head where I'm like you got 20 years of catching up to do quick so that you could be at the same level as these dentists that are actually coming out of universities, you know, and I'm going to be finished in 2027, for example, right. So I'm always thinking like what can I do? What can I do? What could I do I to enjoy life, but I don't want to have no money when I'm old and I ain't got much time to work before the back gives out and the eyes fail me and all the rest of it. So I'm constantly thinking what do I do? So my game plan is completely different and this is why I, like you know, obviously reading into your stuff that you send through emails and whatnot, and then obviously speaking to you directly is like a blessing In not, and then obviously speaking to you directly is is is like a blessing in my shoes. What would you say, without obviously giving away too much maybe I don't know, I don't know how you want to pitch it, but yeah, yeah, like, over there, you you tell me like what, what? Yeah, like because, okay, I'll give you my perspective on things, right? So in a best case scenario I'll walk you through it very quickly. 2027 I'll finish university, right, I'll come back to the UK, I'll be on a PLVE, so not the normal UK foundation training, still end up with a performer number, but in that year base income on NHS work alone is between 55 and 60K. This is all pre-tax, you know, plus any private work you do on top. But you're hardly going to get any of that in your first year anyway. Let's just say you go in and you've got a 60K pre-tax After that. My idea is to just kind of get down to mixed practice as quick as possible. So go from the 100% NHS down to at least 50-50 within first, let's say, three to four years and then beyond that. I think the character that I am and I completely appreciate anyone listening that, yes, I'm a student and you're probably thinking this guy is talking all this, that and the other. When it comes down to reality, you're not going to do any of this. Fine, I completely appreciate it?

Dr James, 31m 48s:

No, I don't think that at all. As things go on the game plan.

Naveed, 31m 53s:

I hope so, but I'm just saying for those that are listening, I know a lot of people off. That's fine, because there is some truth in that. There might come a day in five years from now I'm like, yeah, screw this, I'm not doing this. So, with the mindset I've got right now, that's what I would hope to do, and then, within the three to five years of practice, I would love to open up my own clinic, my own practice. I think it suits me as an individual. It tickles my fancy in terms of ownership, management, marketing business at the same time doing some sort of dentistry alongside it. But then also it's the hybrid idea of having an asset, that is, a business that then I could later on probably sell off anyway and it should do all right in today's market Again. Now coming back to my situation in my shoes, what would you say could be done to optimize that? If anything, uh, what could you say should be adjusted so that we can, we have a better game plan moving forward with the limited time? So I'm not going to be 21 when I'm done, I'm going to be like 41 when I'm done. So what's your thoughts?

Dr James, 32m 56s:

sure you know what. It's a brilliant question and I have a very clear answer to that in my head. But before I say I just want to caveat. What I'm about to say is that this is definitely not the right path for everyone. How can I say this as well? It's not if we're going to set everything else aside, like all debates and quandaries and what people how can I say this have about. You know, viewing things through this lens that I'm about to espouse in just a second people. People think that when you talk about the money side of dentistry, that you, you can't. There's, there's always going to be a trade-off when it comes to the ethics and morality side of it. Like, they think it's like one or the other. They think that those two things are juxtapositioned or opposing. Actually, I think those things can be the same. They can be the same. If you ask me, right, like, if you're doing really high quality treatment that's going to help someone so that their mouth is completely, fully rehabilitated, well, you're going to help them to the highest standard you possibly can. Plus, you're going to make money off the back of it, right, you're going to make more money because you've given them more value, right. So I think that people uh, there is a big belief out there that some people hold, that they think that when you talk about the money side of dentistry, or it's immediately against, yeah, it's just that you have to sacrifice ethics when you do that, which is just not true, if you ask me, right. So so, in that spirit, proceeding in that fit, what I would do if it was me is I would very. First goal, okay, is to become shit hot at dentistry as an associate. Yeah, like, really good. First priority is investing in courses, right, to get you to that level. Right, it's the clinical stuff, but it's also how to communicate it too. That's the side that people don't recognize, how important it is. Yeah, high grossing associate, then you have cash flow. Then, when you are the high grossing associate which is amazing then all of a sudden, then you can start to invest in accounts. Invest in accounts, yeah, now, if you want to be a high grossing associate and continue at that level forever, fine, you'll probably have a great life and you'll be able to put that's a great way to be. There's lots of people that I see who are like 35 and millionaires through doing that. Fine, you know, because they put their money in an isa, or some of them got lucky with bitcoin and stuff like that. You know it's possible, like it is completely possible, right, and that's a nice life, right. And then if someone wants to, as you say, open a dental practice because they want to have a lifestyle where it's associate-led, easier said than done. It's not easy to do, it is definitely really hard, right, but at least you have some skin in the game for that possible reality. You have to open a dental practice, right, like? You have to take on the risk, I guess. Basically, then, the fact that you're now a high-grossing associate means that when you're working in your dental practice and your dental practice needs the lifeblood of business, which is cash that you can step in and do that quite well, you can also. You also have the cash flow to get good team members. You also have the cash flow to get good associates as well and pay them high margins to keep them in place and invest in the dental practice, and then, eventually, you can hopefully get it to the stage where it runs itself a little bit more, and in order to do that, I would. Then the next level is investing in the skills of business, the business of dentistry and the things that knowing how dentistry works from a business perspective, but also knowing little random things that people don't know, like meta ads and stuff like that, like some of the, some of the principles I see out there are killing it. Know how meta ads work because they went and learned how to do it. Or like google ppc and stuff like that. Right, I don't even know why ppc works, right, I don't know how google works. I've never used it, right, but I was considering myself, okay, at meta ads, um, they can be very good, they can be very useful. I think that's a key skill for business, right, they're very clever. Mark zuckerberg right, he made this thing that's not like a cornerstone of everybody's business, right, like if you want to elevate your business, you have to use his business and that's why he's so clever, right? Um, so, anyway, where were we? So that would be, that would be the, the roadmap for me. Basically, now, don't get me wrong, those are just things to aim for, easier said than done, right? But that is, of course, in my head. People might agree with me, they might disagree with me. I'm speaking from the heart. That's what I think, uh, and if we're looking at it purely from the point of view of finances. For me, that's the quickest path that I observed. I did myself in part, uh, and then, since having a million billion training conversations with other dentists who've done these sorts of things over the years, you pick up even more things. You know what I mean, uh. So, yeah, that's the route right there, high grossing associate, and everything flows from there. And, by the way, or?

Naveed, 37m 54s:

just do high grossing associate oh, see this, now you're gonna really get me right because people, you said it, you said, you said 35 billionaire and all of a sudden me and everyone else went right. Screw the practice.

Dr James, 38m 7s:

I'm doing this well, you can listen, as in a you know, um, if you're earning really well as an associate and you just compound your money in an iso with some bitcoin, it's not, it's, it can happen, right? Listen, I'm not saying everybody should buy bitcoin. I'm definitely not saying that. I'm just saying that that's an example of a method some people have used. You could probably just use your isa or your pension and be a millionaire if you have really high cash flow and reinvest it all into some sort of uh, global equities fund that does well and you have a few lucky years. You know what I mean. I'm not. Everything I say is not financial advice. Just want to say that again on this podcast. I'm just talking about possible methods. Just get my little disclaimer in there. But yes, anyway, you don't even necessarily have to be a high grossing associate to do that. It just helps, right. All I'm saying is that if you stack all these things that I've just talked about, you're giving yourself the greatest chance possible. That's all I'm saying. Saying, right, you don't have to do all of them. Maybe you just do some of them or one or two, often right, and you can probably do quite well.

Naveed, 39m 9s:

But I really, I'm actually really glad you asked me that question, because I've never said that before in a podcast like what do you know what I always feel like, you know, when people come on, not just not just on you know your side of things, but just generally Everything just seems so red tape man. People just don't want to talk about real life stuff. Because I'm not saying you, I mean, you've come out quite clearly just giving us a good example, non-financial information or advice here Again, just disclaimer. But I think people always get worried to A ask the question because they don't want to be perceived as a certain person and be the host, doesn't want to ever say anything, because they say well, I don't want to cross the limits here, but we need that. I think the layman and the people that are listening, and myself included, we just we come on these things, we listen to these things, we actually want advice, we want info. Right, we're not just sitting there trying to listen to things. We listen to nonstop. We can find on TikTok people just saying things within the limits. We need that little bit of a push, little bit of advice, little bit of a recommendation or a suggestion, without being forced or coerced into it, and that in itself can actually start the journey into success, because unless we get it from someone else, it's usually. I don't think it catalyzes the process. Enough does it. So I want to say, on my behalf and probably on behalf of everyone listening thank you for being honest, Thank you for having an opinion and not just sitting on the fence and saying screw it. I want to give the playbook answer that everyone else gives and be diplomatic about this, because I think we've had enough of it and we need more voices like yourself that are a bit unapologetic and come from experience, that actually trying to help people out, because we don't have enough of that.

Dr James, 40m 46s:

So, seriously, thanks, man, really, really appreciate that well, listen, that's really kind, you know, and thank you for that. I think that when you kind of just tell the real, real of what's out there, that, how can I say it? It's because there's so much crap and like scammy stuff, right, that it's there's potential that you can be tarred with that brush as well. Yeah, and that's definitely not. I'm that's the point of dentistry. Invest is to say, right, okay, there are some people out there who've done really well that you can't, you can't deny that, like they exist, right. So what have they done? That's all we're doing. We're documenting that, right, and yeah, if you know it exists, there must be a way. So if you're cynical about every single method that you hear, perhaps you're tarring some of the really good stuff with the same brush, right, but that it kind of circles back to what I was saying earlier. That's why having some knowledge in how money works really helps, because you can tell what's real and what isn't real. Right, and what came out of my mouth just then is like the realest real. That's, that's what. I've met these people and spoke to them and done this stuff to a degree myself, uh as well. Uh, that, that for me, that is the best method. And if I could go, if I could go back okay, you want to know definitively that this is how much I believe in what and what I said, and dentistry invest and what I do. If I could go back and tell myself when I was 25, right, and go to like the pub with that guy and tell himself over some evenings, right, I'd be like, right, this is the roadmap, just do these things. You mightn't even understand what these things are right now. You might. You might know what they are, but you don't. We don't fully have the same concepts as to what they are. But just keep this, put it on your wall and just figure out what this stuff means. And this is the map right here. That's genuinely what I would say. God, strike me down that's amazing, man, honestly.

Naveed, 42m 40s:

And the thing is this is this is a perfect way to actually circle back, as you said, to that first point retiring at 21. And we discussed can you do it and maintain it? And I think it's so important that having knowledge and, as you quite rightly said, having the experience of making the money and then using it and then losing it and then rebuilding it these are such important factors to have if you actually want to be wealthy and again, getting that information from the likes of yourself and personal experience. I think being too, for example, investing in your eyes too early, is a bad thing. I think being rich too early, in my opinion, can be a bad thing as well if you don't have the right people around you, the right experiences, etc. So you know, getting getting that kind of insight from you, then circling back to the beginning, I think that's that's. That's such a a beautiful way of like rounding things off in it.