Dr Komal, 58s:

Hello everyone, welcome to another episode of the More Than Scrubs podcast. Today I've got a very lovely guest and I'm very excited to introduce him. It's James from Dentists who Invest. Can you introduce yourself to us if people don't know you already?

Dr James, 1m 12s:

Yeah, sure, absolutely. So nice to meet everybody. My name is Dr James Martin. I am a dentist, like I'm sure a lot of the audience are. However, I had a little bit of a unique career path, I suppose you could say. And how that came about was I basically started a platform four years ago, four or five years ago, and that's called Dentist who Invests. And really that was born out of me going on every single course under the sun with regards to finance and business and dentistry, and also my own self-perpetuated learning into that world as well, through the purpose or means or intention of bettering myself and understanding it a little bit more. And how can I say this? I guess I picked up a few things along the way and maybe I didn't really necessarily know how useful that was until I made that Facebook group we talked about earlier called Dentist who Invest, and it seemed to go somewhere. And then that became a whole host of other things with time, which is cool, which I'm sure we can touch on as the podcast progresses.

Dr Komal, 2m 5s:

Yeah, I mean, I love hearing about your journey. I think it's really unique and I think you've probably got loads of nuggets to share with all of us. So let's start with where it all began. Oh, okay. So, firstly, how long have you been qualified and where did you qualify from?

Dr James, 2m 22s:

Yeah, sure. So I qualified in 2016 from University of Leeds and, let me see, I was uh. Well, I am originally from Northern Ireland, so I came over to England and that was like my very first. I was probably one of the third or fourth times that I came to England and it was like okay yeah, now. I'm gonna live here. Basically, and for the record, english culture is actually really different to Northern.

Dr Komal, 2m 43s:

Ireland Is it? What's different you?

Dr James, 2m 45s:

would not think it. I think like the accent.

Dr Komal, 2m 48s:

Yeah.

Dr James, 2m 48s:

Sorry, sorry, the accent. What I meant to say was the accent is one, my accent, although at the time I felt like I spoke the Queen's English and it was everybody else was the problem, but in reflection it was probably me when you get to England it's different. It's probably real English, isn't it? Yeah, you know that's kind of where it originated from, but anyway, so it was interesting, because the first few years I genuinely didn't know which words were like Irish slang or Irish lingo versus actual words that are in the English dictionary.

Dr Komal, 3m 14s:

Basically, Give us an example.

Dr James, 3m 15s:

Okay, it's sayings, it's words, words, but it's also sayings and their connotations and what people mean by words. So one thing I always used to say was I used to say, hey, how are you doing this weather? Right and what does that? What does that mean to you? Just out of curiosity how are you doing?

Dr Komal, 3m 34s:

and in this weather? In this weather how are you finding the weather?

Dr James, 3m 38s:

yeah, this is the barrier that we had right, because that actually means this weather, means at this present time.

Dr Komal, 3m 45s:

Like the weather.

Dr James, 3m 46s:

As we look out, the window is sunny right now, in this very moment. How are you?

Dr Komal, 3m 49s:

I've actually never heard that before. Yeah, there you go, right Is that like a very common thing where you come from.

Dr James, 3m 55s:

It was common in my family. But, for context, we all live in the dark, rural Northern Ireland so in hindsight I probably had quite an extreme accent without realising it, you know. But anyway, as you can imagine, communication difficulties is a mild occurrence. It actually was, and you know what. I'll tell you another one. I'll tell you another one before we move on. You know the word. I still can't pronounce this word to this day. You know, when you look, you look at yourself and you see a reflection, the object that you look in the mirror the mirror, the mirror, the mirror. I still can't say that to this day. Well, do you know what I probably don't say? Mirror as in if you're doing it like London, it's mirror right, mirror, mirror, mirror see, I'm still trying, I'm still working on that one, I'm still working on that one, I'm still working on that one. But I say, the way you can distinguish if someone's from Northern Ireland or not is they'll say mer, mer, it's one syllable. Michael McIntyre actually has a sketch on this he has a whole entire sketch on this right About how you can distinguish that there's a Northern Irish person in the room by getting them to say that word. So it only has one syllable in Northern Ireland, right.

Dr Komal, 4m 59s:

Do you know what it's easier? So I might just start saying Murr. It's less effort, yeah.

Dr James, 5m 7s:

You're welcome. You're welcome. We should make that a thing.

Dr Komal, 5m 8s:

Great. So we learned one thing today how to say Murr.

Dr James, 5m 11s:

So far, so good. Yeah, I hope this is living up to the level of intellectual conversation.

Dr Komal, 5m 16s:

Yeah, this is what I said. This is what common men, this is what common men. All right, so tell me about, uh, dental school. Right, so you went to leeds, did you? Was it like a smooth journey when you were in dental school? Was there anything that made you think like, okay, I don't want to do this forever? Or when did you know that you wanted to be more than scrubs?

Dr James, 5m 37s:

that's the title of this podcast, right that's right oh, boom, right, okay, okay, okay. Now I'm linking it all together. Yeah, so, anyway, when did I, when did I realize that? Well, here's the thing. I don't think. I kind of realized it at the time I in uni, I was like a bit love hate was down and she like don't want to do this, don't want to do it. But I was always like, nah, if I just keep going, I'll learn to love it yeah and I guess I was on the fence and then even in FD for the first six months. I was like man, I just feel so out of my depth. You know I definitely some people just take to it like a duck to water, right, like, and they just make it look a breeze, right, and don't get me wrong, like I tried really hard and I guess I was, I wasn't, I was all right at it no-transcript.

Dr Komal, 6m 56s:

But yeah, I think most of us are normal and we we take time to like perfect things, and you know.

Dr James, 7m 2s:

Yeah, maybe it was just yeah, maybe I was just you know average at it, I guess.

Dr Komal, 7m 7s:

Which is again average, means majority, right. Yeah, it's fine, it's all right.

Dr James, 7m 11s:

And I guess people who do dentistry are quite clever. So the average of those people I guess you know that's all right.

Dr Komal, 7m 17s:

That's saying something we kind of weigh it up.

Dr James, 7m 23s:

But how can I say this yeah, I liked it. Um, it took a long time for my crown perhaps to look that good. You know what I mean? Um, a lot of courses and what have you. After university I actually did, uh, that prof tipton course, uh, the operative one, and my crown, perhaps before and after that. I thought they were good and they really that taught me what a good crown prep should look like and you think you're good at crown preps until you buy loops. It's so true, guys, if you're on the other side of that, get some loops and then yeah decide what your crown preps look like. You can, you can decide. At that point anyway, we digress. But yeah, where were we? So? Uh, nhfd didn't really like it the first six months, but then I got into it and I was like, oh my god, I can do this. There's I feel like everybody just has that, you know, week or month where it comes together and you feel like you're floundering, right, and then all the learnings are just like, yeah, like that. And I remember that happening. I was like, hey, you know, maybe this is all right, you know, maybe I can do this, you know. And then I went into my first job. That was NHS, and then I had a job that was fully private.

Dr Komal, 8m 20s:

And was this in Ireland or was it Northern?

Dr James, 8m 22s:

Ireland or here. This actually all took place in Yorkshire, okay, leeds and Bradford, yeah, basically. And then what happened next? Let me think, yeah, I did like dentistry, but here was the big thing, right, here was like the biggie, okay. And this is how I felt. I don't know how many people feel this way Maybe you do, I don't know. But basically I used to come home every weekend and I used to be like, right, okay, great week. You know, we did loads of, we did loads of fill-ins. They all looked really good. Uh, like some days I would leave the clinic and I'd be buzzing because I was like, yeah, everything just went amazing, right. But I guess what really bothered me about dentistry was you could do in any other job. I feel, if you do something 99 of the time and you're incredible right, that is a good enough hit ratio for you to be good at your job, right. But one thing that always bugged me about dentistry was I was like you can literally just do one filling or have one bad patient interaction. You have one off moment and cost you so much you know, and listen, I'm not uh, you know, it's just an observation. It's the nature of the beast, right, like that's how it is right. So it's just part and parcel of the game, I guess, when it comes to dentistry. But that did bug me, I must admit, and I was like man, this just seems really unfair. You know what I mean. But then the other thing that got me and this wasn't really a dentistry thing, this was more a career thing, this was just how I felt. That got me and this wasn't really a dentistry thing, this was more a career thing. This was just how I felt I used to come home every weekend. I distinctly remember this. I do my 9-5 and I always felt like then they would go out and have some food or do whatever, and there was always part of me that was just like do I just do this like forever? Is this, yeah, relatable? Is this? Is this what I do now? Is this like my life?

Dr Komal, 10m 4s:

And you need to do it for another 40 odd years as well.

Dr James, 10m 7s:

Yeah, and it almost it was. You know, like you can learn well and that's great, and it was almost like that actually felt hollow. I was like right well, on paper, if you just talk about this, this sounds incredible and this sounds like someone's dream life. But I was just like this is actually not enough, like I want these other things. What I used to channel that energy into okay, which kind of how can I say foreshadows everything that happens next was reading books on finance and going on courses okay, because that was from early.

Dr Komal, 10m 37s:

Would you say yeah, because?

Dr James, 10m 38s:

I was like, uh, that was pretty much a post-university thing. And I was like, right, well, let me use this time for something. And that was the how can I say this? The initiator or the precursor to everything that happened next. It was all this work that I was putting in without necessarily realizing it, whereas any sane person would have just I don't know started a dental practice or I don't know. I don't know what they would have done?

Dr Komal, 11m 6s:

Would you say it was more like a hobby that you started to read about finance stuff? Or did you have, like, okay, a vision of I'm a dentist, but I don't want to do this full time and that's why I'm reading First?

Dr James, 11m 18s:

one, first one the finance stuff purely came. The finance and learning about the business side of dentistry purely, purely, purely came excuse me from wanting to. It purely came from the expectation that I thought to myself right, I'm in the real world. Now this is what adults do.

Dr Komal, 11m 36s:

I mean, you've got to know this stuff, right?

Dr James, 11m 38s:

You do.

Dr Komal, 11m 39s:

It's crazy that people don't.

Dr James, 11m 41s:

You do and you know when you're on the other side of it. That's when you can fully appreciate how useful it is. And, by the way, just one quick thing on that I remember the very first finance book I read and I had all these weird beliefs about investing and how money works that were just not true and I never would have disparaged those or removed those until I started reading. And one of them was I was like, hey, isn't this stuff just for like slick ricks in the city or something like that, like us normies don't really have to know it. It's almost like a little bit pretentious learning about this stuff and that that put me off for so long until one of my friends I've got to thank this guy yeah, I have thanked him many times since was like you have to read this. It was that how to own the world book. Okay, that everybody bangs on about. Well, I bang on about anyway. But yeah, it was that book. Have you heard of it?

Dr Komal, 12m 30s:

I have heard of it, but I haven't read it. And I think I've heard of it because of you, because you've probably spoken about it before in your podcast yeah yup, sounds about right.

Dr James, 12m 38s:

But yeah, it was that book. And then I was like, right, wow, he puts it so well in here and the one key lesson in that book, the biggest thing that blew my mind, was that if you don't do anything as in, all your money's in a bank account and inflation is eating it yeah, it feels like you're safe, it feels like you're not risking anything, but actually that's the situation where you're risking everything. That's the riskiest position that you can be in and in a weird learning how to grow your money with an index fund not financial advice, but learning how to grow your money with an index fund and having your money in such a fund is actually a safer place to be. It's actually safer to have it invested than not invested. And I was like, right, that flips it on its head. I understood that at that point that actually I have to do something. Actually, if I don't do anything, I in big trouble, whereas before I thought why would I risk it?

Dr Komal, 13m 23s:

then I realized that actually I was risking it by inaction yeah, 100% agree, and I think that we have that perspective, because I know it's like conspiracy, but they don't want us to know, they don't want us to kind of feel like it's an important thing. And why are we not taught at a school?

Dr James, 13m 40s:

why are we not taught at?

Dr Komal, 13m 41s:

uni, right, um? So I think yeah, what we're taught is save your money in your bank account and everything will be fine.

Dr James, 13m 48s:

Well, if that well, my theory on that is that basically, they don't. You know, this might come across as a little tinfoil hat wearing, but I'm gonna say yeah, that's what I mean they, they don't want, they don't want you to know too much, because then you beat the system like that's literally what it does, like why would they empower people to do that? They want people to participate in the system and further society and be have employees for someone else, right, because business owners need that. So, yeah, that is a really good point and I agree and that's my theory. There's actually I actually read a book on that, and who was it by? It was by like what's the guy Like Henry Ford in his book? He literally says this in his book and he's like that's what he.

Dr Komal, 14m 32s:

That's surprising.

Dr James, 14m 33s:

I would think he'd want people to, or maybe it was like John D Rockefeller or something like that and he was like they literally designed, like he actually played a role in designing the school system and he's like I don't want this.

Dr Komal, 14m 45s:

Yeah, that's what I meant. I thought they would want the school system not to tell you what happens. Is that what it's about?

Dr James, 14m 51s:

Yeah, I think it was a biography rather than an autobiography, so it wasn't him admitting it. It was just that the biography documented the fact that they literally designed the school system to make employees and not make competitors for him. Anyway, food for thought.

Dr Komal, 15m 6s:

We're not saying that this is. I mean we could discuss this for days and I feel like loads of you guys could get involved in that discussion, because I feel like, again, anyone who's probably interested in the stuff you have to say they probably agree with this as well, isn't it? We all have a kind of similar thought process.

Dr James, 15m 28s:

I would say, if you're interested, yeah, and you know. I hope that when I say that stuff I don't come across like I'm diminishing anyone or anything. It's just food for thought and it's useful to have all the facts before we decide what we believe. And hearing alternative stuff is really useful, and that's. I'm not saying that I'm full-on conspiracy theorist. I actually. You know, when you get those conspiracy theorists and they call themselves red pill, yeah, right and uh, you know the matrix reference, right? Hopefully everybody in the audience knows the matrix reference there and their version of being red pill is they just disagree with everything the government says they just automatically believe the opposite and then they think they're like woke or so much more superior to everybody else. I'm not that, but I definitely think it's a good idea to critically think about everything that's yeah, 100% agree.

Dr Komal, 16m 4s:

And then when do you feel like you started thinking like that? So it's after uni, after you graduated, you thought you just need to know where to put your money.

Dr James, 16m 14s:

Is that is that kind of where it started, I think it's one of those things it's more a continuum rather than a binary thing are. Are you with me? I definitely think it starts with considering what's out there. I mean, you've seen Andrew Tate and stuff like that. He would consider himself red-pilled and I'm sure there's lots of Andrew Tate fans out there and people who don't think that.

Dr Komal, 16m 35s:

You guys don't listen to this podcast.

Dr James, 16m 38s:

Andrew Tate fans, if you're out there, if you're listening, perhaps you are knows turn it off. Yes, I have a few friends sometimes, you know, we they tell me they're Andrew Tate fans and it catches me a little bit off guard. It just surprises me, you know. But anyway, whatever, somebody's into horses, for horses I'm not a fan for the record, but that's okay. But anyway, but I'm not a fan for the record, but that's okay, but anyway, but where was it going with that? Where was I going with that?

Dr Komal, 17m 4s:

You said he's red pill.

Dr James, 17m 6s:

No, no, no, no. I said what I meant to say was I think he would consider himself it right, whereas to me that's a good example of it being taken too far. Right, but yeah, back to what we were saying a second ago. It's more of a continuum, right? It's like, hey, you know what, you learn one thing, and then you learn the next thing, and the next thing, and the next thing, and I get. I definitely think that was the start of the journey on me, not that I would consider myself, you know, any sort of expert on these sorts of matters or anything like that, but I definitely think I've made progress and learned a lot of things and see things differently. Hopefully I've made some progress, that's all.

Dr Komal, 17m 41s:

I mean we have evidence of it on your podcast, right? So the amount of episodes you've done and the amount probably you've learned from your guests, I I like you could just say that you've grown a lot from where you started, right?

Dr James, 17m 54s:

I. I definitely think that I've learned a lot of stuff that made me see things differently, and you've taught people stuff maybe not directly from your knowledge, but like by having those people on.

Dr Komal, 18m 4s:

Yeah, like I can say, so I'll tell you my switch yeah it was I watched um. I will teach you to be rich on Netflix by, you know, ramit Sethi oh, I've heard of it.

Dr James, 18m 14s:

I've heard of it literally a switch.

Dr Komal, 18m 16s:

I don't know what it was it was. It was just about like very basics of investing and very basics of how not to be in debt, yeah, and I was like, oh shit, like that's really interesting. And then after that, I probably started reading some books, started listening to a podcast, a few other podcasts as well, and I think yeah, I think it's been amazing when you kind of learn it and the the switch flips, it's crazy, don't you think?

Dr James, 18m 46s:

yeah, you know, you've actually just reminded me of something you've heard of grant cardone no again, he's a little bit like alpha. He's not everyone's cup of tea, okay, and he's a little bit like gary v, but extremely alpha, all right. And he has this show and it's called oh, what's it called? It's called something along the lines of seven day millionaire or something like that. I can't remember the exact name right, but basically the whole point, the whole purpose of the show is he goes to these random towns in like america or in europe, and the brief is I'm gonna be a millionaire and oh, yeah, I get the concept, yeah, yeah and he. He doesn't do it every time, yeah, but a lot of the times he does, he makes a million.

Dr Komal, 19m 26s:

You just need to know the blueprint of how to do it.

Dr James, 19m 29s:

It's because he has the skill set right and you know what he does right the episodes that I have watched because he can do all these random business skills and they're like really high leverage skills. So a lot of the time he starts out he just goes and finds businesses like car dealerships, and he's like need someone to write your emails for a month? Yeah. And they're like yeah, and he's like, well, I charge 20 000 pounds, what, what we're gonna do? Where do we go from here? And they're just like, yeah, okay, and he does it. And he sells like five cars and it's worth it for them, right? So, um, he's got the skill of copywriter. And then he takes the money and he puts it. He like puts it in a real estate and borrows a shitload of money as well and leverages it. And he just has all these random skills. And it just showed me just the only thing to round that off was it just shows me that wealth is a skill set absolutely.

Dr Komal, 20m 18s:

And again, it's something that we're not even told that it's a. It's a skill you can learn, like you know, with dentistry, crown preps. It's like a skill that you, you know, evolve and you learn it. But I don't think anyone ever told me that finance was. Was that right?

Dr James, 20m 34s:

but now we know now, we know so when did you, james?

Dr Komal, 20m 38s:

firstly, with investing yourself. Um, you learned that obviously it's something that is better than just the money sitting in your bank account. So it's kind of you're monetizing the cash that you're earning from work, right? Um, when did you learn that you could monetize in other ways what you're doing, your love for finance?

Dr James, 20m 57s:

oh, I see Again. Something that I only really realized, I guess, when I started the online community that I was talking about just a second ago, because I just made the Facebook group, is basically I had this hiatus out of dentistry because I had to have surgery on my knee and I was like, right, what am I going to do with this time? So I made this Facebook group Dentistry Investor we were talking about just a second ago and then I was posting content on there just every two weeks or something like that?

Dr Komal, 21m 25s:

What was the content? Was it just stuff you find interesting, stuff, you learn?

Dr James, 21m 29s:

It was really basic stuff like this is an ISA, this is a pension. This is a worked example of if you invest in an ISA at X amount every year and have Y rate of return, if you reduce your fees by one percent it can be, that amount more, something along those lines, that you can, if anybody wants to, right, if anybody wants to be like a real how can I say this look into the uh, retro or you know history or path uh of down to invest. If you go to my youtube channel, okay, and basically you just scroll back far enough, you'll see all these videos.

Dr Komal, 22m 0s:

There's loads of them making videos about I was yeah because what was the? What was the purpose of doing it like? Was it literally you, you just like it's fun and you thought you could share that knowledge, or was there like a bigger picture?

Dr James, 22m 12s:

I mean I thought it would be fun to make content. I always thought it would be fun to make, I always wanted to do it, but I just never had time. So I was just doing, yeah, all their stuff. So I just went and did it and, um, yeah, what happened next? And then I guess that when I started seeing people join the group, I was like, right, wow, this is cool. You know, people obviously want this and it's growing yeah and that was when that encouraged me, I guess. And then, um, what happened next? Then I realized that this could be some sort of business when basically, people contact this. People started contacting me and they were like, hey, can you show me how to do this thing? Like I've watched this video, I still don't know how to do it. I mean, I have an idea how to do it, but it would be helped better if you just did it for me was it to do with investing yeah, initially it was just like simple crypto accounts. Okay, like that.

Dr Komal, 23m 2s:

right, I was like can you just like set?

Dr James, 23m 5s:

up Binance for me and I would, and that was how that progressed. And then we started making courses and then we made a learning platform that shows people how they can set up very simple accounts like items and pensions and things along those lines. That was when I met my business partner, luke, who's an ifa, um, so that was how it progressed, and then we basically realized that some people who wanted the course were just not right for it at all, as in they. What they really needed was a financial planner or financial advice. Effectively, some people you can educate there is scope to do that and really that works best whenever they only need some very basic accounts. But sometimes what somebody needs is just incredibly complex and there's a very high chance that they won't be able to do it properly without some guidance. So that was what inspired us to move things to the next level and actually get regulated with the FCA, which is what took us the whole of last year. So now deal with the FCA, which is what took us the whole of last year. So now we're live on that. So between those two things, that's what thank you it was. That was the mission, let me tell you. Uh, but we are there and I, which is great and between those two things. That's what keeps me busy what?

Dr Komal, 24m 10s:

what do you call yourself at the moment? I know we don't like putting people in boxes, but can I flip that on its head right?

Dr James, 24m 17s:

can I spin that right around and ask you what would you from the outside looking in? What do you reckon?

Dr Komal, 24m 24s:

honestly, I don't know. That's what I'm asking you because if you say like a dentist who invests because you know, like you, you can't give financial advice. Is that right? Or you can now?

Dr James, 24m 39s:

me personally, no, yeah, but my partner I would say like an unofficial financial advisor. But I don't know what the word for that is have you heard the term finfluencer? Have you heard?

Dr Komal, 24m 50s:

yeah, I like it. Is that what you want?

Dr James, 24m 52s:

no, I wouldn't say that that kind of has a little bit of a no. No, I don't think it should.

Dr Komal, 24m 57s:

But yeah, I mean, look, you've got the correct people on your side, right, so you're not just a random person just giving out.

Dr James, 25m 5s:

Well, let me share this. Let me share this. So for the record, I was joking about the fin finisher thing. We definitely want to move away from that, that's for sure. But you know one thing that the FCA really liked like they loved it when we showed it to them. Whenever we were in conversation with them last year, we were like guys like you know, there's all these people out there who are sharing these not so responsible messages whenever it comes to finance and what have you, and they're trying to show people how to do all these racy things which they shouldn't really be doing or just aren't a thing. Yeah, the fca are not a fan of people promoting irresponsible messages when they have no actual qualification to do so.

Dr Komal, 25m 44s:

Is that right?

Dr James, 25m 45s:

No qualification and, worse yet, zero education on it. It's just apparent, you know whenever you see it. Therefore, let me see, and when we showed them, obviously a lot of those people can have followings and they're on, I don't know, like X is notorious for it. Twitter and TikTok are the go-to platforms for those people, right? yeah and then when we showed them denison fest and we were like you know, guys, you don't like this. Yeah, you don't like when people do this irresponsibly. So we actually have this following like right here and we want to do this responsibly, so surely this is an opportunity to fight this, to help counteract this right. And they were like man, that is so true that they love that, they absolutely love that, because usually it's the people with responsible messages who who don't have followings. Yeah, it's usually the other way around. Yeah, yeah, there's some exceptions to that. Like you've seen those youtubers niche and stuff like that. Yeah, you know, like there are some people who are trying to, you know, do it properly.

Dr Komal, 26m 43s:

Yeah.

Dr James, 26m 44s:

Not within density per se, but anyway, where was it going with that? And the other thing that they really liked is that we had one of the partners had experience running these exact firms before. So yeah, between those two things, that was what got them.

Dr Komal, 26m 58s:

That's what I was going to say. If you didn't have the correct people on your side, would they have accepted that?

Dr James, 27m 5s:

No, because they're very keen that if someone is set not for the first time, that at least one of their partners has ran these sorts of firms before, or at least has you know three, four years.

Dr Komal, 27m 15s:

Which is fair enough. Yeah, completely reasonable, completely reasonable, okay, cool, and did you have anyone throughout this journey who was like influencing your path, or were you just winging it by yourself?

Dr James, 27m 27s:

great question and the answer is yes. I've always had, I've always had a mentor at any one time. Apart from recently, actually, over the last 12 months or so, I've not really had a mentor or someone in the background and I just have this. How can I say this? You know, I don't think that just knowing a little bit about finance and money would be enough purely to grow Denison, invest and run it and operate it. There's actually other skills in there as well as in I. One of my coaches once was this American guy and he just knew he was a Facebook groups coach. He just knew everything that was his literal job.

Dr Komal, 28m 1s:

Okay, that was his literal job.

Dr James, 28m 2s:

He knew everything. A Facebook groups coach, he just knew everything. That was his literal job. Okay, that was his literal job, he knew everything about Facebook groups and I thought I knew how Facebook groups work. And then I met this guy and it was like on a whole other level.

Dr Komal, 28m 9s:

How did you find him?

Dr James, 28m 11s:

I liked him. We kind of ran out of things to talk about after a little while because it was all about Facebook groups, as you can imagine, but I did learn some really cool stuff as in how to use them and how to make them the most engaging and what have you? That was his primary goal. I've always had mentors, lots of different mentors, over the years. I feel like there's a saying that I really love you either pay with time, you pay with money, and for me, I'll pay with money is condensed time, right, not to get too woo-woo and philosophical, it's literally condensed time. So it's like one investment is to go and stick it in the S&P 10% every year. Brilliant, whoop. That's excellent, and people should totally do that if they want some sort of passive return on their money, if they're happy to be a little bit more proactive. If you invest in knowledge, I'd like to think there's lots of things out there that you can and it's tax deductible as well, you know. So for me that's a lot of what I've done is invested in those sorts of people and then eventually probably the last one that I had, I was like I kind of know even though we've just started working together for like two months, kind of know what you're going to say, like you're not really speeding anything up.

Dr Komal, 29m 16s:

Okay, you're just kind of You've reached that level.

Dr James, 29m 24s:

I feel like I just I don't need a mentor, I am a mentor. Oh wow. I feel like I reached that point where it wasn't as valuable to me anymore, because I had a very clear idea and was like right, we're here, we want to get to here and. I know that we can do that. If we just keep repeating what we're doing, there's no way to speed this up. And, if anything, it was valuable to learn that from him, because he was like hey, you know, you should just keep doing this and you're like, yeah, I know thanks, but yes I like that and I want to put message out there.

Dr Komal, 29m 50s:

Just that's really spoken to me, because you know things don't just happen, you do need sometimes help. Or you know, you didn't just grow this facebook group out of nowhere, you had to put work into it, you had to put time into it. You had to put time into it money into it. Right, it didn't just happen. So I think that's a big one. From the outside, when you see something like that, you're probably like, oh, he just got really lucky and you know, he just got loads of people to join in. It was engaging, just like that, but you put work into that.

Dr James, 30m 18s:

Thanks, yeah, I did, and it was a lot. It was a lot, a lot, but yeah, all worth it, all worth it okay, so circle back to what would you describe yourself as then?

Dr Komal, 30m 29s:

I don't oh just give me like a, like a brief idea not getting out of that one.

Dr James, 30m 36s:

That was no. I'm kidding um what would I describe myself as?

Dr Komal, 30m 41s:

the reason I'm asking is because the point of this podcast is anyone that's listening who might want to follow your footsteps. So we might have a dentist who's super interested in maybe not particularly finance, like it could be anything, but that they just want to do what you do. So how can they be like you? And to be like you, I guess they kind of need to know what it is. How do you describe yourself first?

Dr James, 31m 6s:

you know what? Honestly, I think there is so much to be said by just not overly deliberating on what you're going to do next and just providing you're not going to leave yourself high and dry. Yeah, seeing everything as a learning experience. You there's a saying that I love. You either win or you learn. I think that's so cool like that like the losses are not losses, they're learning points, right, and it's like, yeah, okay, the more you can do, that is the faster you can iterate and just not get down right. And I don't think I have any unique talent or skill, other than I just don't get down if something doesn't go the way that I would expect, and I just see it as a learning point and it opens other doors, if anything. When something doesn't maybe go how I planned out, I'm like I've been through that so many times and I'm just like I just know something cool is going to happen. Now I almost like weirdly, get excited. Honestly, it's just happened to me so many times. And then you make progress, don't you? You? And you just keep going, and you keep going to answer your question. What have I seen myself as? Definitely still a dentist. I definitely would say that. I would say dentist. I would say after that I'm going to have to really think on that one.

Dr Komal, 32m 17s:

I'm going to have to really chew on that.

Dr James, 32m 19s:

I would say, yeah, wow, there's a lot to think about there. I would say, I would say someone who maybe is I don't like the word entrepreneur, you know, I just don't like that word.

Dr Komal, 32m 33s:

You like that word um because that is what you're doing, maybe maybe.

Dr James, 32m 39s:

I just think it has a connotation of being a little bit big-headed, doesn't it? Or a little bit like flash, which is not really me. Okay, yeah, but you know what I think? I'm gonna go with that, for lack of a better word yeah, I think that's.

Dr Komal, 32m 54s:

I don't think it's a bad word at all. Yeah, yeah, okay. So a dentist slash entrepreneur?

Dr James, 33m 0s:

yeah, okay great if you're a UK dentist and you wish to add to your verifiable CPD portfolio for this learning cycle, it's worth knowing that Dentist who Invest has over a thousand minutes of free verifiable CPD on our website. Just simply head over to wwwdentistwhoinvestcom and hit the video slash CPD tab and you can go right ahead and help yourself to as much cpd as you need. You'll also find a link that takes you straight to the cpd section of the denis2invest website in the podcast description so what if someone is listening?

Dr Komal, 33m 45s:

what skills do you think they need to have to be like you? I know you just said you don't have any particular skills except for just being positive, but I don't believe that's true. I think there's a little bit more to that interesting.

Dr James, 33m 59s:

Um, I think, uh, I think so much of it is mindset. You know, I really do like, do, like, I think that I mean I like how you phrase the question is what I would comment on there as well, because all these things are just skills, right, like, if you look at people who have done really well, they've just learned different skills. Everything boils down to a skill. Effectively, even resilience is a skill because you train it. It's like a muscle, right? So, yeah, I like how you framed that question. And actually, you know, I was talking to one of my partners the other day, right, and we were talking it's a long story. We were basically talking about how we were going to, uh, you know, think about what we're doing long term. And he was like, well, we need to just speak to these people, these, these bods, these corporate bods, right, and they will tell us. And then I, the exact thing I said to him was I was like right, and that is such a high leverage skill. It's so niche, but it's a very high leverage skill, right, and I know when we learn that, the sooner we learn that is, the sooner we can hit our goals and build something awesome, right, and that's the exact thing that caught my eye about it, right? I was like I want to do that to learn the skill, right and everything. Everything boils down to a skill. If you want to talk, if we're looking at it through the lens of money, there's high leverage, there's low leverage skills, medium leverage skills, high leverage skills. You want to learn high leverage skills, right? Uh, you know, that's not the only lens through which we regard life, but saying, as we're talking, we're talking about the subject of money yeah that would be it. So so, to answer what you said a second ago, I definitely think so much of it is how you see the world. I just think that you have to have an attitude where it's like I'm literally going to die on this hill before I give up. You know, this will, this will. I feel like, if I just keep going, that I will either make this awesome thing. I feel like, if I just keep going, that I will either make this awesome thing, this incredible thing that I've always wanted to make, and there is just no other reality that you'd be willing to accept. So I definitely think that that is part of it. It's just having your mind completely made up that you're going to do something because there's no other possible acceptable reality for you. So I think that's a skill, and then you know, what you know is actually one of the biggest ones as well. I think personally and it was something I thought I was really good at for a long time whenever I was in dentistry but I just wasn't that good and I learned lots of things during my career as a clinical dentist through going on courses and through speaking to people, but also, as well as that, after I started. Dentistry Invest is communication.

Dr Komal, 36m 30s:

Yeah, I was going to say that about you and it's so.

Dr James, 36m 33s:

it sounds like such a wishy-washy thing. And I remember when I was in dentistry again huge limited belief of mine I looked at people. I looked at people who did the, you know, spoke on communication and I was like I don't even know how to do that. Everyone knows how to talk right. And I look back and that was the exact thing that I needed. That was the precise thing that I needed, but I just didn't realize it. It's one of those things. It's really important. So few people realize how important it is. The second I realized that that was such an important skill, and the second, that I was open-minded to becoming a better communicator, was the second that a whole lot of good stuff came into my life and I just feel like it's such a more healthy mindset, instead of believing that we're the best at anything, to just always consider ourselves to be learners. And genuinely, if I could look back, if I could go back and say one thing to myself, I'd say James, be more open-minded in that front, because you have a lot to learn and it can really help you.

Dr Komal, 37m 23s:

I think you probably have been if you would go back and say that to yourself.

Dr James, 37m 28s:

Probably have been.

Dr Komal, 37m 29s:

Open-minded right.

Dr James, 37m 32s:

I hope so. I think that version of James definitely could have been more open-minded when he was 26. Yeah, definitely, okay, we're all, even I right. Most people consider themselves to be, but are they in reality True?

Dr Komal, 37m 46s:

And we all have to work on again another skill yes, and I was going to say another one coming off from communication, is networking, because we've had that from quite a lot of guests on here as well how they've thrived and like made their business successful is literally just talking to anyone and like everybody who will listen to you, right? I think that's a big skill.

Dr James, 38m 8s:

Can I add to that?

Dr Komal, 38m 9s:

Yeah.

Dr James, 38m 10s:

Here is the thing the number of things I've learned that I just didn't think were possible just through talking to people. That made me completely re-evaluate what I thought I knew. And it's one of those types of knowledge you can't actually really get it from books. It's too dynamic. It's too it types of knowledge you can't actually really get it from books. It's too dynamic. It's too. It's too, when I say dynamic, you write a book on some stuff and six months later it's out there. Exactly. It's now Exactly. Whereas you sometimes meet these people and they've got their boots on their ground, they're doing it every day and they're like, hey, you know you can do it like this and you yeah, you have to. It's not easy, because it's hard to find those conversations. You just have to put yourself in situations where that's likely to happen. But that never happens unless you're willing to put yourself out there and talk to people and be open minded.

Dr Komal, 38m 55s:

Yeah, so on that, tell me how you did that. So, for example, you're well connected with quite a lot of people that aren't just dentists, right? You've got loads of different types of people in your circle, so how did that start out?

Dr James, 39m 11s:

well, you know, that's very kind you say, and, um, I don't necessarily know that I am, but if I, if I have made any connections, if, if that has happened to any degree, I would attribute that to that. The first way that that started to happen was being out there on social media, yes, so that people would see you.

Dr Komal, 39m 34s:

And they know how to get in touch with you, right, yeah?

Dr James, 39m 37s:

And that's the upside to social media that I never really realized until I was on the other side of it. And it's like people just send you stuff in DMs and sometimes these are like awesome opportunities, you know, and certainly I think that that's one of the upsides of having a following and having people know you. And then the second crucial component to that, which is also really important and people don't do enough, if you ask me is I have a rule that if anyone tries to talk to me, I will talk to them.

Dr Komal, 40m 3s:

That's nice yeah.

Dr James, 40m 5s:

And this is the thing you know, like someone literally just has to DM me and I'll get back to them as soon as I can. You know, if I'm swamped I'll always get back to them. Yeah, I will. If I'm swamped, I'll make the time at some stage. And you know those conversations. Sometimes it's just a hello. Sometimes there's something immediately obvious that you can do, but I would honestly say that 50, 60 percent of the time there's some way to collab or there's some way to do something, or they know someone, or you're able to help them out, or they teach you something without even realizing it. That is a hack to life right there. And you know, one thing I would also say, just to run that off, is that if you can try your very hardest, very, very, very hardest to keep as many people as possible on good terms, yeah that is also helps, because then they say good things about you, even when I'm gonna say this, even when someone ah, they maybe rub you up a little bit the wrong way, right, because often they don't realize they've done it right. Okay, the trick is to just not react. And then the thing is, you know, three months later you've probably forgotten about it yourself. To be honest with you, right? But if you did react in that moment, in like the heat of the moment, that somehow sours things slightly. So, yeah, level, you know, 4d chess move in life, god, 4d chess move in life, god, tier, god, tier. Networking move, yes, is To try very best To always have things On good terms.

Dr Komal, 41m 29s:

Yeah, totally agree with that one. Yeah, so important and that's like a. It's a skill again that you have to learn, because some people they're like hot headed or they want to Kind of say things as soon as they hear. You know Retaliate. But yeah, just sleep on it sometimes and then get back to the person, right? Have you learned that the hard way?

Dr James, 41m 49s:

I think we all have right, Even as kids. Right, that's like a playground thing.

Dr Komal, 41m 54s:

I think we're probably learning it.

Dr James, 41m 56s:

Probably we're being reminded of it. That's for sure, that's for sure.

Dr Komal, 41m 59s:

Okay, so I just want to walk through your timeline. Right, so you graduated 2016. You were a dentist full-time. For how long?

Dr James, 42m 9s:

yeah, full-time. Um. So let me see all the way up to coronavirus, yeah. And then you know what, for me after coronavirus it kind of just dentistry was never really quite the same for me, like I just hated that yeah attire that we used to wear, I think it switched for a lot of people like it just changed a lot of people's trajectory, don't you think? I just saw things differently after that.

Dr Komal, 42m 31s:

And was it during COVID that you started doing like, started focusing more on finance stuff? When did you make your group? Was it in COVID or before that?

Dr James, 42m 40s:

The initial learning about finance. I'd planted the seeds basically since I'd left uni. It was very much. I think it was like 2017 um 2016 2017.

Dr Komal, 42m 57s:

That was a personal voyage that I was on, yeah, without any real clear ambition. I mean, it's the goal.

Dr James, 43m 0s:

It was just financial freedom to learn how to do it myself. Yeah, because I in my head I was like this is what adults do. Yeah, I'm like if I don't do this, it's a good way to spend your time yeah, so valuable best way. And I did not know that until I did it. Yeah, because I was, like it seemed to me just as attractive as any other pursuit, really. But anyway, um, what happened next? Uh, I was in dentistry for four, yeah, up till 2020, and after that I went, I had my knee operation. I went back to dentistry for like six, seven months but, then I was trying to juggle was that kind of part-time that was actually full-time okay with your knee up post knee up all right, but the knee was you know I could walk on it at that point, okay I mean. And so that was. You know I'd had my three months of recovery, basically. And then what happened next was I had to juggle Dentist who Invest and also juggle dentistry.

Dr Komal, 43m 53s:

Okay. So when did Dentist who Invest start? Was that in COVID or before?

Dr James, 43m 59s:

To give you the timeline. So COVID was March to July 2020. And then I started Dentistry Invest September 2020. And then I recovered from the knee thing I mentioned and then I went back to dentistry December 2020.

Dr Komal, 44m 20s:

Okay, so in those three months do you feel like you had a bit of time to focus on Dentistry Invest? Oh yeah, big time.

Dr James, 44m 25s:

Like I don't think it would ever have grown if that never would have happened, Because I literally just didn't have anything else to do and I was like right, well, I'm just going to make content. Yeah, fair and make videos and because I had all that time.

Dr Komal, 44m 38s:

That's cool.

Dr James, 44m 43s:

Yeah, so it's saying that I love. Do you like sayings?

Dr Komal, 44m 46s:

I do.

Dr James, 44m 46s:

I love sayings. Right, I'll give you another saying at the end, which I think is really cool, but anyway, the one that just sprung to mind just there was luck is when preparation meets opportunity.

Dr Komal, 44m 57s:

Exactly. Yeah, because if you didn't have one of those those, the other one would happen.

Dr James, 45m 8s:

Right it's, it was the prep without realizing it, and then that was I always. I really do genuinely believe that if something bad happens, it's usually in vertical bad, or if it's bad at the time, it's usually the genesis of something awesome afterwards otherwise we'd all just fail usually when that happens, I always think immediately after I'm like something cool is going to happen in a weird way right, I'm gonna take that from you.

Dr Komal, 45m 33s:

It's such a life like that it's.

Dr James, 45m 35s:

It's how can I say this? It's such an. There's no guarantee that it will, but it's just a belief, right, and it's just it's. It's. If I choose to have that belief, it increases the likelihood of that happening. Yeah, so I'm engineering. I choose to have that belief. It increases the likelihood of that happening. Yeah, so I'm engineering. I'm somewhat realizing that. That is slightly. How can I say this? Maybe not based on reality, you know, but my point is that if you have that belief, then it's more likely that stuff will happen.

Dr Komal, 46m 1s:

So you're, you're engineering it just to maximize your chance of success I love talking about manifesting right and you're literally talking about that because it's like preparation how you're preparing for something your manifest. You're acting like the person that you want to be. So if you have that positive outlook on stuff, then everything will turn out positively right. So that's what I. I like to say that as well. I think it's really true. And, um, yeah, you speak to Tom a lot, right.

Dr James, 46m 30s:

Tom Ford as mayor. Oh, you know him from your podcast.

Dr Komal, 46m 33s:

I love those ones so good. Yeah, you just gotta embody that person, right? So if something like you said, if something negative happens, uh look, put a positive spin on it, and why would it not then turn out positively?

Dr James, 46m 47s:

there's always a way. There's literally always a way, and that's actually a really cool belief to hold as well. It's like there's if you tell yourself and you know deep inside, right like deep in here, that there's always a way to do something. Okay, it's like your brain, your subconscious, what's that book called, oh man, psycho, psycho-cybernetics Heard of it? I haven't. It's such a cool book.

Dr Komal, 47m 8s:

I really need to write these all down and go.

Dr James, 47m 10s:

That is a crazy book. Yeah, yeah, you should. You'll like that one If you like what we were talking about just a second ago Law of Attraction and all that you'll likeeking missile. And he says you don't have to heat-seek a missile, you program it to find something. It'll always find something right and it's like okay, cool, well, if my outlook is negative on the world, I'll always find ways to prove that belief correct. Yes, whereas if my outlook is positive, it doesn't always mean that positive things will happen, but my brain will look for the positivity and opportunities yeah so you're changing your reality by changing the internal and, by the way, this is coming from the guy who used to think this stuff was the biggest woo-woo in the whole wide world when you start, it changes your life. It's real, it's real. Um, yeah, really cool book.

Dr Komal, 48m 4s:

I really like that quote, love that and I've literally got the podcast coming out today with Dr Aditi, who she talks a lot about this, so listen to that, but yeah she talks about like positive vibrations, positive energy, and it literally it changes not only your outlook, but how you attract things to yourself as well, and I don't think that's woo woo. I think it's literally just like just how life works. Yeah, yeah, I would say so. And that leads me, like, onto how dentists are and how dentists are portrayed like it's a very sad situation or everyone's kind of cooped up in their room and feeling like rubbish about themselves. That's like how dentistry is portrayed, I feel.

Dr James, 48m 48s:

I. You know what I really love to see. Uh, dentists just support each other as much as possible.

Dr Komal, 48m 54s:

I would love that man because oh, yeah, for sure, and I think, like your group really helps in that sense, because dentists just come on there, whether it's anonymous or not, and then they just like pull their hearts out. I was one of those people, by the way, I'm sure you saw me posting a lot but yeah, literally like pull your heart out, get support. And yeah, just, I was going to say like I just feel like dentistry has that negative connotation, so your patients think that about you, your colleagues think that about each other, and then it just turns into this whole like sad thing. I think your group really adds to that because, yeah, it just helps everyone just like let a bit of you know, stress out and guys tell me what I can do in terms of not just finance.

Dr James, 49m 37s:

I think people just talk about like really random stuff when your group is all right just life advice, yeah and I think that I think that's lovely, right, and you know, what did take a lot of time was ensuring that the community was as positive as possible, right, and how can I say? Just making sure that that was the culture? Yes, and I feel I have observed that what you said as well. You know there was one. What was the one? The other day? It was something about somebody's son and they were so a levels yeah, they were not even. They weren't even like necessarily looking for advice in their finances. It was just like I I can't remember the exact words, but it was something like I'm really confused about what to do. My son does this and I just need parenting advice. I love that right. And all these people just jumped in that's so nice and they were like, hey, you're not doing so bad after all.

Dr Komal, 50m 30s:

Oh, that's so nice.

Dr James, 50m 31s:

You could tell it actually really helped, and I guess what I would hope, or my theory on that, is that because people have observed the positive energy in the community that they're in their heads, they're like right well, even though I'm not necessarily asking about finance yeah I'm asking about. I really just buy into the culture in the community it's a safe space yeah, there you go right. Isn't another way of saying that? Yeah?

Dr Komal, 50m 58s:

so we've got your timeline, we've got that. You had mentorship to kind of make your facebook group and grow it. When did you if you're okay to talk about it when did you start to monetize things or earn money from it?

Dr James, 51m 13s:

At the start it was people messaged me and then I realized there was demand for certain things, and then I was like what was the service you were providing? The very first thing we did was we actually did a course in crypto way back in the day, and it was a very basic course Like here is how to set up an account, here's how to set up a wallet, here is how to do a little bit of very simple investing, and then, when you graduate on from that, maybe a little bit of the more racy trading side of things, if you wish. There was actually some quite good ways that you could. You know, listen, not everything is 100% a guarantee but you could. How can I say this? You know, there was some ways that you could game it a little bit back then. They probably still exist to this day. You know what I mean. Little bit back then. Um, that probably still exists to this day. You know what I mean? Um, so that was fun. And then we did a more general finance course, and then part of that was also like the coaching side of things to help dennis make more money as well. Uh, so the crypto course evolved into a more general finance course, and then the coaching people whenever it came to increasing their income and what have you. That was something that was well. I started doing that because I felt very comfortable doing it, basically because I'd been on every course under the sun, um, and then that was those were the two main things for a good while, and then that evolved into our financial planning firm as well. And then we now have partners and affiliates who do all sorts of things like accountancy, um, mortgage bookers, finance for dental practices, everything under the sun, all things, all things, dentistry, invest.

Dr Komal, 52m 48s:

Yeah, love that. Okay. So when you were saying we've interrupted you, but you were talking about being a full-time dentist when you got back from your knee-op and also running Dentistry Invest and you found that was a bit of a struggle, right, yeah, yeah. So how did you juggle all of that and what did you have to let go? And how did you? How did you know to cut down on one thing?

Dr James, 53m 10s:

you know what? What happened was this. I really like the analogy. It's like you know, when you go to the supermarket, right, sometimes your bag is full. You really want something, but your bag is full of all these other things, your tote bag, right? I like that yeah and sometimes you got to take something else out to put something else in. And that's kind of what happened to me with dentistry. It wasn't that I, it was in the tote bag To run with this analogy, it was in that tote bag. But basically what I realized was that dentistry Vest was in a place back then where it literally needed every hour of every day to actually get it up and running. There was just loads to do. And what happened was I actually I basically started to get you know, I was basically just not sleeping and just working all the time. I basically started to get symptoms, like systemic symptoms of just fatigue, basically like quite severe symptoms, and that was like the universe trying to tell me like you need to just chill here, like you need to pick something. And I knew in my heart I was like I'm having so much more fun doing this and I think that the clinic that I was in at the time they they could kind of tell that they what they wanted was they wanted a dentist who was all in on dentistry Right, and that was just not me. Like I was not all in, that's for sure. Like it was there but I wasn't all in, I was more all in on dentistry and vest. We just had a conversation and we just said, james, you know, we want someone who does this, this, and this Is that you? And it was always in my head, it was in my mind, um, that it wasn't. And I knew I was kind of just stringing it out a little bit. And then when they asked me directly, I was like, right, well, my options are not. Tell the truth. Yeah, because I know that that's true. I know in here that that's true. Or we can just, if you've confronted me about it, that we can just be adults and I'll just say how I feel. And then sometimes there's a lot to be said in life for just saying how you feel and let the chips fall where they may was that not scary, though, like having to say it? out loud it's, I guess. Well, put it like this, I wasn't, I didn't wasn't knocking on their door to have the conversation. Yeah, you know what I mean? It definitely didn't come from me, it was in here, right. But I guess I was kind of. I was kind of toot and croak about it, but in my heart I knew what I wanted to do. And then when that happened, what was my main emotion that I felt that day? I actually maybe just felt like, let's just do this.

Dr Komal, 55m 45s:

I'm just going say it yeah, I mean, maybe it's like literally the universe saying like all right guys, you need to go knock on his door and ask him the question because he's not answering it himself. So go and ask him this and let's see what he says it was fit, man.

Dr James, 55m 58s:

Yeah, it was just literally fit, like it was just gonna happen. And I think, with stuff like that, whatever happens next, next, you know it was fate either way and fate's fate.

Dr Komal, 56m 8s:

Love that and so you had. You basically took a step out completely from dentistry after that, or was it part time staggered? I?

Dr James, 56m 18s:

just left, did you? I was just like, let's make it happen.

Dr Komal, 56m 21s:

But at that point were you earning enough from your side hustle for it to be okay to quit?

Dr James, 56m 28s:

The interesting thing was it had achieved parity pretty fast. Basically, interestingly, um, yeah and uh, that was actually part of the reason that it didn't feel as drawn to dentistry anymore. Um, so, yes, that was a factor yeah, great.

Dr Komal, 56m 49s:

And when you're saying you were feeling those symptoms of fatigue and burnout, obviously leaving dentistry must have helped with that because you had more time.

Dr James, 56m 57s:

It was just space yeah, something huge off my plate because dentistry is stressful right and, like you, have enough to deal with just as it is as a dentist, right and uh, having that taken out of the tote bag, to use that metaphor we talked about earlier, it made a big difference yeah, dentistry is like a big watermelon in your tote bag when you have so much space in there wow, this is really like something like that you can put so many things in your bag.

Dr Komal, 57m 28s:

Yeah, so how? How do you usually deal with kind of preventing burnout and juggling things?

Dr James, 57m 34s:

you know what's funny, right? I think that being burnt out is based on the fact that you it costs you energy to do something. If something gives you, there's two things in life things that gives you energy and things that cost energy. Right, if something? Put it like this you know, name a hobby, name a pastime that somebody has. Let's say, someone likes playing paddle, right, they could probably play paddle a lot before they felt burnt out. Yeah, yeah, like that's literally their biggest hobby in the whole wide world. Uh, whereas and that's fine, you know, there's no, there's no hierarchy of the importance of hobbies, right, it's like, whatever someone is into, that's fine. It just so happens that I just love like this and doing all these things, that I would literally do it all day long, you know, despite anything else.

Dr Komal, 58m 21s:

Yeah, so you don't feel burnt out, I guess.

Dr James, 58m 23s:

And my family say that to me, they're like James, what's going on, it's every day, like are you okay, you know? And I'm like, no, you actually don't understand.

Dr Komal, 58m 41s:

I would literally rather do whatever this is.

Dr James, 58m 42s:

I'd rather do this, because in my head it's building and in my head I just know something awesome, awesome, things have happened and they'll continue to happen. That's cool. That's the biggest high for me. That is the biggest high when you okay, when you make something and it comes off and you're like, yeah, that's awesome, yeah.

Dr Komal, 58m 53s:

So to anyone listening and they want to feel like that, they want to, to know how that feels to work and it doesn't feel like work. You just love what you're doing. What advice do you have for them?

Dr James, 59m 5s:

You know, this is a brilliant question, and sometimes I see people out there and everything I'm about to say is with love, just because I genuinely want people to be happy in life above all else. However, that looks right and I feel like say, for example, you're in a place where you just feel like there's something missing and you don't know what that is. Yeah, because that's the hard part. Someone just can't come along and just give you the answer, right. So for me, I I felt and don't get me wrong, I felt like that for years and I just accepted it. Maybe and maybe it was because no one said to me what I'm about to say. So, for me, when I, when I uh how can I say this? When I felt that way, what I didn't actually realize the void was was running a business and doing all these things, because I, I love that, that's my favorite thing to do in the whole wide world. So let me see, um, how that? How? I then found that was just through trying. It wasn't any more intellectual or it wasn't any more how can I say this? It thought through. Then I just tried loads of different things and then eventually you just find something that you like. But the big thing to emphasize is you don't just try something one day and you're like, oh my god, this is incredible, like this is the best thing. It usually takes you some time doing something before you realize you enjoy it. Like even with dentistry, I didn't really enjoy it until maybe halfway through foundation year or maybe even when I got out being an associate and I felt like really confident. I still had a lot to learn, but I felt confident emphasis on that anywho. Um, I feel like partly enjoying something comes through experience. I feel like I feel like people should do things that scare them a lot more, because oftentimes those are the experiences that grow us and that we learn new things through. And really, if you do that and when you do that, you often have new experiences.

Dr Komal, 1h 1m 8s:

And actually, if you think about it, if you feel like there's a void, you're probably just looking for new experiences yeah to find the thing that you really really really like totally agree and that totally matches what loads of people have said who have come on. It's literally just try something new and you don't usually do well on the first try. It's quite hard, like it's quite rare right, especially as an entrepreneur or a business owner, like it takes time for you to get there and that's fine, like trial and error basically, until you find what clicks or what works right.

Dr James, 1h 1m 39s:

Expect to suck at something, yeah, and embrace the sun and it's like you.

Dr Komal, 1h 1m 44s:

How are you going to grow if you're just sitting there comfortably doing amazingly at everything?

Dr James, 1h 1m 50s:

I I really, really, really feel that for me, that was what worked incredibly well just doing things that literally scared the hell out of me at the time, and then I found cool stuff on the other side yeah, it's character building.

Dr Komal, 1h 2m 1s:

Yeah, that's what we call it.

Dr James, 1h 2m 3s:

I always remember my first video on social media and I was so scared to post it yeah, because it was me talking in this group. Yeah, and I was like I just don't know.

Dr Komal, 1h 2m 10s:

Yeah or your first. Do you think like your first podcast, where you had a guest on that you didn't know, it must must have been really weird and like what do I?

Dr James, 1h 2m 17s:

say You're actually a natural right.

Dr Komal, 1h 2m 20s:

Do you think Definitely? I'm like literally just swinging it.

Dr James, 1h 2m 24s:

You're honestly right. If you listen to my very first episode even the first, like 30 episodes there's loads of ums and ahs in there. I had to edit the ums and ahs, yeah, I do that.

Dr Komal, 1h 2m 34s:

It's to arms and ass. Yeah, I do that, it's okay and that's fine, that's alright.

Dr James, 1h 2m 38s:

eventually, on your hundredth one then it flows, yeah, then it flows exactly, and then it actually. You know, the coolest thing about making content boost your ability to communicate yeah, 100% you can get to the point where the words flow on camera so you can perform in that situation, and then it means the conversation is so much easier to do. Sounds again. Sounds a whimsical. Never would have believed it until I went through it.

Dr Komal, 1h 3m 1s:

Yeah, exactly. So we've been really positive about everything and we've said really nice things about what you do, but is there anything negative about what you do?

Dr James, 1h 3m 11s:

I would say that probably the thing that people don't see is just how much work it is. It's all day long, every day, yeah, and there's a lot to deal with. Um, I think that you have to be a certain way like I get a thrill on overcoming things and I'm like I know that this adversity will surpass and it will feel really good. I I think that maybe that is something that maybe I don't really talk about that much, not because it bothers me, it's just not relevant. You know what I mean. I think people would be surprised just how much they do. I really do. Yeah, there's a lot. It just looks like a Facebook group, you know what I mean, or it looks, you know, and again.

Dr Komal, 1h 3m 55s:

It's that perception, like from the outside, when something's built up, you don't think about how long it took or how much work it takes to daily maintain that.

Dr James, 1h 4m 3s:

Yeah you know what I would say as well, like there's been so many lessons that I look back on that I learned from coaches or mentors or even experience, and until I learned that because you don't know what, you don't know, you're struggling, but you just're struggling, but you just don't see it. You just don't see it at all, as in. One of the biggest revelations for me was getting a team, as in staff members, because I was doing, I was just spending all day just doing these little low-level tasks and what have you, and at the time I accepted it. But until I even hiring your first staff member is like okay, this feels kind of weird, this is kind of outside my comfort zone. But again, it was another example of me doing something that put me in that place. That was the best thing I ever did because it took so much off my plate. I think that you go through when you are if we're going to use the term entrepreneur you spend a lot of time just tumbling. You really do, and you just got to keep believing that you're gonna find your feet and eventually it happens and I I'm really happy that some cool things came of it and there's definitely more to do, but we've got some really good, like really good momentum. Right now it feels and there's, there's more to come. And I look back and just weird little times where I talk to somebody or just random things happened that taught me these huge lessons and I'm like man, where would I be if I didn't learn that thing, that one little thing. It changed everything. So my basic point would be just keep going, keep believing, understand that adversity is part of the journey and embrace it.

Dr Komal, 1h 5m 35s:

And get help.

Dr James, 1h 5m 37s:

Get help and try to try to never get down as well, because there's always a win in there somewhere so what type of help do you have at the moment for who's in your team? Hmm, well, you know what? I used to have a lot of coaches and mentors, but then I then I brought team members in, basically, and people who were partners in, uh, the other firm that we have, and, in a way, they're your members, even though you're not in a formal relationship with them. In terms of you do and you learn so much and just really what I would say that everybody is and something that I didn't realize for a long time that when you get the right people around you, it makes so much difference. They cover your back, they cover your ass, they see little things that you can't see. The sooner you embrace the fact that this, this head right here has limited bandwidth yeah, and the sooner we.

Dr Komal, 1h 6m 27s:

I feel like if we're uh, unless we accept that we limit ourselves a lot so from the sounds of it, there's not that much negativity, except for just that there's lots to do. But like you said, said you love it, so it's nice.

Dr James, 1h 6m 40s:

Yeah, I think if you're going to spend your time doing lots of things, just make sure it's the important things, right? Because, then you're getting the most bang for your buck.

Dr Komal, 1h 6m 47s:

Yeah, exactly, all right. So take me back to when you first qualified. What was the biggest struggle you had as a dentist?

Dr James, 1h 7m 1s:

Wow, good question. I would say the actual technical aspect to it. Okay, as in putting your hands in someone's mouth with a drill, yeah it's not normal.

Dr Komal, 1h 7m 7s:

It's not like a, a normal human thing to do, is it?

Dr James, 1h 7m 11s:

it certainly isn't. That was. There's some really scary moments right in everybody's dental career, like rites of passage, like the first time you have the long needle. Yeah, the 2070, right, I remember the teacher had to like hold my hand.

Dr Komal, 1h 7m 27s:

Oh yeah, that's a memory oh my goodness.

Dr James, 1h 7m 30s:

And it comes back to the support thing.

Dr Komal, 1h 7m 32s:

The team around you are just on your back, sometimes, like the nurses and the PMs, right, like they're not always the most supportive yeah, and you're like I'm literally a human trying to do something really intricate and you know it takes a lot out of you and you guys don't get it yeah, or because they work with.

Dr James, 1h 7m 51s:

You know Slick Rick, who's been doing dentistry for 30 years.

Dr Komal, 1h 7m 54s:

They're just like well, you can't do it, so what can you?

Dr James, 1h 7m 57s:

yeah, exactly, and it's like, guys, I've done this, like I've done a root canal three times my freaking life, right, like is it not more helpful that you would be nice, right um? anyway, stuff like that, c'est la vie, yeah so, okay, that was your struggle I definitely think those were the biggies and I definitely think that I probably had a lot to learn in the communication front as well when I was a dentist initially. And yeah, it's, it's one of those things. It's a sink or swim thing, isn't it? Because that is one of the biggest things that generates issues from the patient's perspective if you can't do that.

Dr Komal, 1h 8m 32s:

We always hear that a thousand percent.

Dr James, 1h 8m 34s:

And what was it? Um, I heard somebody say once that you've go to manage the patient before you manage the treatment plan. You know, 95% of dentistry yeah, 95% of dentistry is just how you communicate and manage the person.

Dr Komal, 1h 8m 45s:

Yeah, I've seen some crazy dentistry, but the person doing it is so nice that no one has a clue. Sorry if I just, you know, just spill the beans.

Dr James, 1h 8m 56s:

But you know what I feel like people can relate.

Dr Komal, 1h 8m 58s:

Yeah, oh my gosh, but OK. So if there's a dentist who's listening to this, they've been really inspired about what you've had to say and they're just feeling like a bit stuck right now. They're not really sure what to do moving forward, but they want to do something. Do you have any kind of last words of wisdom for them?

Dr James, 1h 9m 16s:

Words of wisdom for them. Words of wisdom. You know what? I mentioned this earlier and it's probably a good time to circle back to it and I said that there's another quote that I really like. Yeah, and that quote is a calm sea never made a strong sailor.

Dr Komal, 1h 9m 28s:

I like it.

Dr James, 1h 9m 30s:

And I guess what I mean by that is, you know, dentistry can be really lonely. It can be really tough, it may. And density can be really lonely. It can be really tough. It may compound all the things that you're going through in life. I guess when I remind myself of that, or when I tell myself that I'm like, right well, I'm learning a lot, this is going to make me stronger. This is going to make me appreciate the good times so much more, and I think it's a really good thing to hold on to. I really do. I really like that. That helps with the mindset side of things. By way of practical things to do. I would just say you know, a really nice way of looking at something is is like what would your 85 year old self do in the situation that you're in right now? As in the person who had no time and they'd probably stop giving a toss like 20 years ago. Oh, my god, I like that one yeah and sometimes, if you make decisions, whatever you're going through, if you're like what would that dude do or what would that dude act do, so to speak, uh, what? That's a really good lens through which to look at things. Would they accept this or would they just be like I've got my time on earth is potentially limited. What would I do? What would I do in this moment? And I think that that's a really helpful lens to which to make decisions through. And things oftentimes when you think about that person's life, they speed things up, because time we all consider ourselves over loads of time and we think things are going to get better and sometimes that just protracts things, whereas that person doesn't have time. They just don't care and they just get on with it. Yeah, it's very hard to have, you know, hard and fast rules, like you've got to do that all the time, but it's a nice little rule of thumb and I like that a lot.

Dr Komal, 1h 11m 11s:

Yeah, definitely. I think that's a look at your life, the idea of just saying whatever to things. So if something bad has happened, or even if something good has happened, like life is a roller coaster, but the more you can just get over it like whatever, come back to your normal, um, what's the baseline yeah, the more you'll just be okay with life. And I think most 85 year olds are probably there. They're like just good at saying whatever, they're pretty chill, they stop. They stop caring right, whatever at life, right, um, okay, so last question for you I like what you've said and I feel like it's really inspiring that you've reached a level where you love what you do. But if we were in a dream world or like parallel universe, and you could have a dream job, what would your dream job be?

Dr James, 1h 12m 1s:

Honestly and I hope this doesn't come across in how can I say this in any other way than maybe inauthentic I just really love what I do. I actually love it Really. You wouldn't do anything else, honestly. No, really. And you know why? Because I would just go, and if I wanted to do it, I would just go and do it. I would, it would already be done.

Dr Komal, 1h 12m 24s:

Okay, so not even like. Okay, what I've had so far. Astronaut footballer, oh I see, like selling pineapples on the beach, that's what I mean. We're kind of pushing it around here. Oh, I see, not, that's what I mean.

Dr James, 1h 12m 35s:

We're kind of pushing it around here. Oh, I see, not practical. That's a brilliant question. And you know what? Here's the thing. Right, if I was a footballer or an astronaut or all of those things, I kind of look back and I think, yeah, but would I have learned all these things and met all these people? You know what I mean? And it would be cool. Space would basically cool and stuff. I guess. Thank you For a while, but I'd be like no, but like I have stuff to do on earth.

Dr Komal, 1h 13m 1s:

I want to be here on earth running Dentists who Invest.

Dr James, 1h 13m 4s:

Yeah, or I think I think you know Dentists who Invest awesome, love it. You know what I really? I just genuinely really love running a business.

Dr Komal, 1h 13m 11s:

Yeah.

Dr James, 1h 13m 12s:

And I think it's the coolest thing.

Dr Komal, 1h 13m 13s:

So so you'd be a businessman in your parallel universe.

Dr James, 1h 13m 18s:

But I guess the real sense of satisfaction for me is like it just didn't exist, right, like it just wasn't a thing. And anything that I do is me just taking this thing from the ground up and growing it and just see how far it can go. And yeah, I guess being a footballer and earning like 200k a week would be like cool for a while, right, um. But I think in the long run, like when I had to retire as a footballer, like what would I?

Dr Komal, 1h 13m 45s:

what would you do then? What would?

Dr James, 1h 13m 47s:

you do right yeah whereas I know that this, if I'm playing a long game, actually actually it when I look at it through that lens, it's probably going to be this. I just think about all the again not that I know everything, far from it but I look at all the just crazy lessons and things that I realised over the years and that never would have happened otherwise, and I genuinely think that those are so versatile and they serve me so well that it would be remiss of me to jeopardise it by potentially having another career wow.

Dr Komal, 1h 14m 20s:

So literally, even in a parallel universe, you're, you're who you are now living the dream legit.

Dr James, 1h 14m 27s:

You know there's this. Have you heard of alex humosi? yeah yeah, and he has this thing and it's like, you know, it's all about the lessons, as in life is entrepreneurship and life is all about the lessons, and what he says by that, what he means by that, is it's like okay, cool. Well, you know, even if everything went tits up and your market coin went to zero tomorrow and all your businesses failed, you could open it again and because you know what you know now, you could probably get back to where you were pretty fast.

Dr Komal, 1h 14m 54s:

Yeah.

Dr James, 1h 14m 55s:

And like, if I could go back and talk to James when he was like 29, stuff, I would teach that kid honestly, stuff, I would teach that kid Nice and it would be. It's you, just you, just you, just. It's just all these little obscure skills that you just never would have learned otherwise. And you know, I'm really excited for the future. That's what I'm trying to say.

Dr Komal, 1h 15m 15s:

Amazing. I love that for you. That's really nice to hear and on that note, let's close the podcast by saying that we are all more than scrubs and look at what we can do. We can literally achieve our dreams if we just kind of come out of the comfort zone right and just grow. Any last messages from you.

Dr James, 1h 15m 33s:

I would just echo what you just said right then Smash you. I would just echo what you just said right then Smash the conference on.

Dr Komal, 1h 15m 40s:

It seems, like such a small thing, but actually it's huge. Yeah, love it. Thank you so much for coming, james.

Dr James, 1h 15m 43s:

Thanks for having me.