Dentists Who Invest

Podcast Episode

Full Transcript

Dr James: 0:48

What’s up everyone. Hope you’re having an amazing day wherever in the world that you are. Welcome back to the Denton Symmiverse podcast, and today is an episode that I’ve been meaning to do for flipping ages, lices versus pensions, because the thing about lices is they don’t quite fit the mold of the rest of lices and actually, well, I don’t want to give too many spoilers away, but they’re more akin to pension vehicles, or at least they can be used in that instance. And to help me and assist me on this podcast today, I’ve got my good friend, mr John Dall. How are you?

Jon: 1:18

I’m very well. Thank you, mate, yeah.

Dr James: 1:19

How are you doing I?

Jon: 1:21

am wonderful.

Dr James: 1:22

Things are really, really, really popping these days. I’ve got a ton of stuff that I’m creating for Denton Symmiverse on the back end. I’m super, super excited for 2023. How about you? What’s going on in John’s world these days?

Jon: 1:33

I think things again really excited. 2023 is going to be a big year for Juniper. We’re in a growth phase of the business, training up new advisors, taking on new clients. Yeah, exciting things happening, exciting things happening.

Dr James: 1:47

You know, honestly, when you get bitten by the business bug, it feels flipping. Good, you know, and when you can create something, especially when you can create something that uplifts everybody else, you’re scaling that mountain and you’re lifting as you climb, you climb. It’s flipping special. It’s not for everyone, but I mean for me. I find it harder to not think about it than think about it, than to not think about Denton Symmiverse than to think about Denton Symmiverse, and I think that just means you find your happy place. Is all, john, what do you?

Jon: 2:17

reckon my wife’s got used to it now. There used to be a time when she’d be like, can you just stop talking about it or start switch off for a minute? And it’s not like, you know, stressing at night or any of that kind of stuff anymore, but it’s more, just when your mind goes quiet and you get still, it starts to run with ideas. And that’s the bit that I find exciting. When I’m on holiday day one, day two, chill, day three I’m not thinking right, where are we taking this? Where are we taking this? What’s going on? And it’s because my yeah, it just excites me, it fulfills me, it’s good.

Dr James: 2:54

Well, this is it. You can almost spot the entrepreneurial people out from a crowd because they just get so. Whenever an idea pops into their head, business or not, they get so excited, and that is one of the hallmarks for me. So I’m flipping here on that one, john, we should probably pull the things back to invest in In classic podcast form. Sometimes we wind up talking for 20 minutes about something else entirely. So I’ll be strict and swift with that one today for myself, mainly because I’m the main culprit. But anyway, back to what we’re supposed to be talking about lices versus pensions. Before we talk about lices, it might be nice for people out there just to have an overview of lices, because a lice is, of course, a type of lice and what? Who better to ask than yourself on that one?

Jon: 3:40

Okay, yeah. So on, lice is just a savings vehicle. It’s something we can put cash or investments like stocks and shares into, and the lice is a tax rapid. The government provides us for legal tax mitigation and it enables us to invest in a tax efficient manner. So there will be no tax on any income or no tax on any capital gains that we might make from the investments that we have in there. There’s obviously a limit to how much we can put into lices each year. Currently that stands at 20,000, subject to change, but that’s the way lices go, is they go everything? Budget day is a nightmare for financial advisors. What’s changing? What’s changing? It just means that I says great vehicle for putting money away into. We can grow and invest tax efficiently and hopefully make a lot of money over the long term.

Dr James: 4:36

That’s the idea, cool. So specifically within that, there’s different types of lices and we could jump straight into lices. Here’s the thing I’ve always find it’s nice to have like a stick in the mod, basically to compare. Are you with me? Yeah, so we’ve got a. Stocks and shares, I said. Got cash, I said et cetera. Maybe we could just elaborate a little bit more on those for people who are, okay, it’s for the first time, yeah, yeah.

Jon: 5:02

So probably the most familiar to most people is the cash iser. It’s what you’ll be able to open up with most banks and building societies. It is what it says on the tin. It’s an iser that holds cash, usually either on a fixed term basis, so you’ll put it in for one year, two years, three years, and they’ll give you a set interest rate, or you can get instant access ices as well. That will just provide an interest rate and all it does is hold cash like a bank account. You pay no tax on the interest.

Dr James: 5:32

Very nice. How are interest rates doing the? How have obviously the Bank of England put their interest rates up today? How is that filtering through the cash ices? Actually just as a little bit of a tangent, yeah.

Jon: 5:42

We’re starting to see them come up a bit, a little bit over time. I said to someone recently that cash is having like a Sandra Bullock moment. You know, like mis-geniality the film where, like Sandra Bullock, is this mess of a CIA agent CIA agent that’s hard to say. And then halfway through the film they suddenly put makeup on, I take off her glasses, put her hair down and she’s hot. And everyone’s like, oh my goodness, sandra Bullock was hot. We never knew. And that’s kind of what’s happening with cash at the moment. We’re getting a lot more inquiries from clients. People have forgotten about it for the last 10 years, but yeah, we are seeing cash rates go up. We have cash management that we offer for clients, so we’re starting to see better rates. You know, maybe 2% to 1.5% on instant access, maybe even a touch more than that some places. So they’re starting to follow through. It’s still not as exciting as investing long term, but it does have that safety element to it.

Dr James: 6:39

Cool, awesome, cash houses being the classic, then stocks and shares.

Jon: 6:47

Isis is a is a record where you can go and invest in individual stocks and shares into certain investment funds ETF, index funds, whatever floats you boat. Investment wise. There are certain rules, but most investment funds that you would be able to go and buy would be available through stocks and shares Isis. Yeah, and again, 20,000 can go into them. Exactly the same and you can move money between cash and stocks and shares Isis depending on how you’re feeling about investment risk.

Dr James: 7:23

Well, this is the key thing about Isis apart from the black sheep of the family, which is the Lysa, in a way, right, which is that you could put the money in and it’s really accessible at any point, apart from Lysa’s and, of course, fixed term cash isis, as you said.

Jon: 7:36

And I’d say that one of the coolest things about Isis now is most of the Isis certainly the ones we use at Juniper are called flexible Isis, and what a flexible Isis means is that you can only put 20,000 a year in, but if you need to take a lump sum out, you can put all of that money back in within the same tax year. So I’ve had situations before where a client of mine was buying a new house. They haven’t quite completed on their old house so we withdrew money from their Isis. We’ve been doing this with them disciplined way for a long time. We drew money from their Isis, bought the house, the new house and then, when the old house sold, they put all that money back into their Isis several hundred thousand pounds.

Dr James: 8:24

So they used their Isis. No way, I didn’t know that yeah.

Jon: 8:27

And then another one. A client, a local dentist to me, was doing an extension They’ll put in a new wrap around extension on one new surgery, new reception and it looks really sweet. And they were just a bit short on the funding. Lloyds were messing around. It was kind of during that, 2021. Our dentist is still good, Are they safe, Are they not? And so again, we used their Isis to get the building work started. They withdrew the money in sort of April, May time managed to get the stuff, get the extension sorted. Lloyds then sorted all the mortgages out once it was done and we repaid the money back into their Isis before the end of March the following year.

Dr James: 9:10

I did not know that was possible. That’s actually super interesting. So is that that’s only on specific provider? That’s only on Stocks and Chairs? Isis with specific providers, right, or every provider?

Jon: 9:21

Yeah, yeah, a lot of it will come down to, and it’s. This is where you get into the real weeds of how the providers work. A lot of it’s down to their computer systems. So the legislation says that Isis can be flexible now but if their computer system doesn’t allow you know they’ve hard coded the one way allowance calculation then it’s a whole big problem for them in developing their systems to allow flexible Isis. But certainly you know, and there are DIY providers who will offer flexible Isis as well as advised platforms that will do flexible Isis. Now it can be a really powerful tool.

Dr James: 10:01

That is a flipping pearl right there. I did not know that. I mean, let’s set aside the software things. I didn’t even know that legally that was something that you could do. But there we are Interesting stuff.

Jon: 10:11

I was at the. Lysa mate. Every day is a school day.

Dr James: 10:16

Well, you know, that is cool as hell. Anyway, onwards to Lysa’s, because they differ a little bit from the Isis mentioned previously and unequivocally they’re not flexible, or at least not without a penalty, right yeah.

Jon: 10:30

So the Lysa. I like to think of it as like a hybrid between a pension and an Isis. It’s kind of their love child, oh wow, but not necessarily a good way. It’s got all the negatives of both methods potentially right. But a lifetime is a type of Isis where you have a much smaller limit and it forms part of your Isis allowance. So you can put 4000 pounds a year into your lifetime is Isis. You can only open it before your 40th birthday. You can only contribute to it until your 50. However, the upside is you get a 25% bonus from the government for every pound that you’re putting in. Okay, up to 1000 pounds. So you put your 4000 pounds in, it suddenly becomes 5000 pounds. Happy days. The catch there’s always a catch. You never get anything free in life. There’s always a catch. The catch is that this money is then locked within this Isis, except for very, very specific purposes buying your first home. That means that the people buying the house are both first-time buyers, never bought a property before. This has caught a few people out where maybe they’re getting together with someone who has already owned a home Maybe it’s a second marriage or something. Their partner’s previously owned a home, but they’re a first-time buyer. It’s caught some people out, so it’s buying a first home or aged 60 or over. That’s where the pension element comes into. It is that it’s designed locked up until you’re 60. Or if you’re terminally ill with less than 12 months to live and that will be. A doctor has given you that diagnosis, we get the upside of the tax relief, but it comes with a set of restrictive handcuffs. Other than that, it works in very similar ways to a normal IAS. You can invest in exactly the same things, often on exactly the same platforms, and it can sit side-by-side with your other IASs Cool.

Dr James: 12:57

I’m right in saying there’s actually a distinction within IASs in that there’s a cash IAS and a stocks and shares IAS right?

Jon: 13:04

I believe. So yeah, we don’t tend to get too involved with the cash side of things. Yeah, there probably are cash IASs out there. We, as advisors, tend to focus more on the investment lifetime IAS Because it’s locked up and you have to be 40 or under when you’re taking them out. These are a minimum 20-year investment because, apart from, maybe, if you’re imminently buying your first home but we found that most people taking them out are already homeowners there’s a small sort of marketplace that these seem to work reasonably well with. So most people it’s a 20-plus year investment, in which case we don’t really want to be sitting around in cash for that length of time with something that’s locked up. So we tend to focus more on the investment side than the cash IAS or cash IAS.

Dr James: 14:00

Here’s the thing. Here’s what I often get questions about. People will say, hey, I want to open up a stock share as a lot, sir, and I want to invest the money so I have more to buy my house. Oh and, by the way, I’m buying my house in six months time and I’m like whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa whoa. Before the cash rewards, I get it. Yeah, is that something that you come across? Because what I’m getting at is generally timeframes over which we invest our money are much longer than six months.

Jon: 14:28

Yeah, yeah.

Dr James: 14:29

You never guarantee. We need to be careful with that word, but to increase the odds of success as much as possible.

Jon: 14:35

Right, so the average age of a junior per client is 51. The average age of financial advisor clients when I talk to other practice owners is in their 60s. Ok, so the kind of when we’re thinking, you know dentists looking to buy their first property, probably late 20s, early 30s, depending on how life’s gone Some of them, some later, generally speaking, we’re not talking to lots and lots of those clients. So those those sort of first time buyers we’ve got some children of clients who will do this. I’ve got one in fact text me this week need to get hold of some money from my thing because he’s buying his first house. Fantastic, very happy for him. But you know, if you are there in that situation where you’re going I’m looking to buy the next six, 12 months, even two years we would always look at cash as being the way to go, especially if you’re on that very fixed pathway to buying. You know it’s a very deliberate plan to be buying in that time period because you just don’t know what the market is going to do in six to 12 months and anyone who put money into investments over the last 12 months to go and buy has probably ended up with less than they invested, depending on the investments they were in, which is why cash is king when it comes to short term.

Dr James: 16:04

Hell yeah, and another thing we should mention as well. I believe that that house has to be under 450K. Maybe you mentioned that.

Jon: 16:13

Oh, that’s a good question. Yes, it does, yeah, yeah, yeah, it does have to be under 450K.

Dr James: 16:21

Yeah, correct, massive right. So here’s the thing. On that two year timeframe, when we’re very helpful to get advice, I would say, and I would unequivocally say, that if we want to put that cash within the lives of the sum work.

Jon: 16:39

Yeah, I’m just also looking here. You’ve got to buy the property at least 12 months after you make your first lifetime ISA contribution.

Dr James: 16:48

It’s also good to know.

Jon: 16:50

Yeah, so it’s not something you want to get caught out on. You can break your money out to the lifetime ISA, but it comes at a cost which I’m sure we’ll come on to later.

Dr James: 17:05

Yeah, well, it’s 25% off. The balance I believe, and it’s designed to, is the cost at reclaiming it.

Jon: 17:14

Yeah. So the way it works is if you needed to break your money out of the lifetime ISA, you get hit with a 25% withdrawal penalty. Now, on the face of it, that can sound very much like you’re just paying back your initial bonus of 25%, but let’s just look at some numbers. So you put £4,000 in, you’ve got your 25% bonus. We’ve now got £5,000 in our lifetime ISA Sat in cash and we immediately realized we’ve made a mistake and we want to get this money out. So we’ve not made any interest. We paid 25% withdrawal penalty, which is £1,250. And we end up with £3,750 less than we’ve put in. So breaking out of these does come at quite a cost. It’s possible, but it’s not something we want to ever have to do, and it’s why we need to think really carefully about what the purpose of using a lifetime ISA is versus other savings vehicles for what we’re trying to achieve here. And that’s where this buying that first home has caught a number of people. I’ve seen a number of things in the press about this of person one. A new couple comes together through lockdown or whatever, and they’re falling in love. They’re very happy. They want to buy a house together. They buy a house together. They find out that one of them has owned a house previously and therefore they are not first time buyers, and the lifetime ISA can no longer be used or they have to pay the penalty.

Dr James: 19:00

Good to know the T’s and C’s, because it’s super important, right? And here’s specifically why I want to do a podcast on the ISA’s, because people reach out to me and they’re like oh yeah, 25% on top of the money that you contribute. How can any investment be that? And the answer is that over a short time frame, no, it can’t. 25% is a huge reimbursement, is a huge return, are you with me? But here’s the thing it’s kind of like, you know, it’s like running into that you don’t realize that when you put that money through the letterbox or the house, you haven’t actually got the key to the house until you’re 57 and it can be doing whatever the heck it likes in there. Right, we have to think about the next step, right? And I feel exactly this is exactly why I wanted to do this podcast is because I feel like that dangling carrot is too much for people to resist almost in the short term, and we have to think about the short term and the next step to actually get this money back, which is just what you’ve neatly described.

Jon: 19:58

Yeah, perfect, lovely stuff.

Dr James: 20:02

And I think we said everything right, yeah, we got them anyway, like that.

Jon: 20:09

I don’t think there’s much more. You know, we’ll probably come into why we might want to use them and the things we want to use them for in a bit. Because they can fit neatly into a financial plan, they can fulfill a purpose. But for me personally, unless we’re already on that path to buying a property and we know who we’re buying the property with, it’s not something that I have property purchase in mind for when we’re looking at lifetime ices.

Dr James: 20:45

Cool, Good to know. Onwards to pensions. So I heard a really nice description of a pension the other day and it’s an investment account with teas and seas, a bit like an ice, a bit like a lice, and this is why they’re often compared right.

Jon: 21:04

Yeah, yeah, yeah, because essentially what we’re trying to do with the pension is provide for our long term future. So again, it’s an investment with teas and seas and investment with some handcraft. We get the tax relief, whether that’s corporation tax relief, by paying for it through our company with its personal tax relief, by making personal contributions. It grows tax free in the same way, you know, the ices and the tax efficiently, in the same way that ices and the pension and the lifetime ices do. But we can’t access it until we’re a certain at a certain point in time. You know most people are 55. In their mind it’s 10 years before state retirement age. So depending on who you are, that could be 55, it could be 57, it could be 58. And as the state pension inevitably moves higher, it will follow it 10 years before. And so we’re very much looking at these as vehicles to fund our exit from working life in later life, I guess.

Dr James: 22:14

Yeah, 100%. So yeah, with regards to pensions, there’s a few other things that make pensions lucrative. Right, like succession etc and things along those lines. Be helpful to go into those. And then what we’ll do is we’ll do a comparison. That’ll be highly valuable.

Jon: 22:31

Yeah, sure. So it’s very likely that there’s two types of pensions that listeners will have. A lot of dentists still have NHS pension and then, if they’ve been fully private or they do some private work, they will potentially also have a personal pension or CEP or other type of individual pension. So the NHS pension is what we call a defined benefit. It’s a promise of an income. You’ve got some great podcasts already on it. So people want the nuts and bolts of that. Go find them 100%.

Dr James: 23:07

Episode 14 with myself and Luke Hurley, and also a really cool one that I did somewhat recently with Ian Hawke, and we’ve done the NHS podcast of death. Those are gold mines.

Jon: 23:16

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, very simply, promise of an income it’s not a quarter of money and at a certain point, depending on the scheme, you will start getting that income coming in. Your partner will get half of that, usually when you, if you, predeceive them, and then on your death, it expires. With a CEP or a personal pension, what you have is a lump of money that at some point you will just put a tap on and you’ll start drawing money from it. Depending on your circumstances, that can be a monthly income or it could be lumps. You do get you 25% tax free. Well, I think so we’re forgetting about it. This isn’t necessarily going into the technical details of pensions, but one of the advantages that a personal pension will have is, on your death, that money is completely inherited by your beneficiaries. Depending on the time of your death before or after age 75, it either passes tax free to if you die before 75 or if you’re over 75, it is inherited as a pension scheme by the beneficiaries, so they get to draw it at their marginal rate of tax. What it never does is very rarely will it form part of your estate. There’s a couple of loopholes that you need to watch out for if you’re meddling with pensions later, but most of the time it doesn’t form part of your taxable estate and therefore bypasses inheritance tax. It can be a very interesting and useful tool for passing wealth on, as well as providing for your own personal financial future.

Dr James: 25:03

Good to know. Two quick things to add value to this podcast which are relevant to what we’re talking about. First of all, a way that I heard ISIS compared to pensions very neatly was that with ISIS, you get taxed on the way in, you don’t get taxed on the way out. Pensions, you don’t get taxed on the way in, but you do get taxed on the way out. What does that mean? Let’s talk about your ISIS First of all. That money has to be in your personal name for you to invest. That it can’t be in a company. It can’t be in a company.

Jon: 25:33

Yeah, yeah, it has to be personal money. You either have to pay dividend tax or income tax to get it in your personal name and then you pop that money into the pension.

Dr James: 25:41

That’s right. What is the beautiful thing about a pension is you can take 40K from your business. Just stick it straight in there, Right.

Jon: 25:49

Yeah, in fact, you can carry forward unused allowance as well. You can sometimes, in some circumstances, go beyond even the 40K.

Dr James: 26:01

Yes, that’s right, because I think it’s three years in the past if you haven’t maxed out your contributions but the account’s been opened, something along those lines.

Jon: 26:08

Yeah, as long as you’ve got a pension lying around somewhere, then you can put this in, you can use those allowances. So, for example, if you had a dentist who did three years NHS, they’ve got an NHS pension, but a decade ago they’ve been working private ever since, never bothered with a pension. They could put 160K into a pension in some circumstances.

Dr James: 26:34

Moly Moly. Good to know. Good to know, yeah. Second thing I was going to say just then. Second thing I was going to say is what we talked about earlier. The here is the most succinct and neatly I’ve ever heard someone describe the pros and cons or compare the pros and cons between different investment vehicles or different tax wrappers. Basically, you can distill everything down to pretty much two questions and then go from there. This is really neat. First thing is accessibility. When can you get your money? If that’s so important to you that you need to have access to your money in three, four years, then actually that trumps everything. If you think about it, we can almost put the other advantages to one side and then we let that govern our choice. Second thing to consider by the way, this is not a definitive list, by the way. There’s obviously more to it. These are the main two. Number one accessibility. Like I say, if not being able to touch your money until you’re 10 years before state pension age or whatever, it’s a non-negotiable view, then actually should we be thinking about a pension or a LISA, maybe not? Second thing tax advantages. If you purely straight up just want to save a ton of money on income tax, then you’re more likely going to lean towards a pension. I thought that was really neat. That’s your decision tree right there.

Jon: 27:59

There’s three things that I often talk about that any financial planning process should give to people or bear in mind. One is the truth of our current financial situation how grim is it or how good is it? Then is the hope that in the end, with whatever planning we’re going to do, we’re going to be all right. But the third one, and the most important one, is choice. We’ve got to make sure that in our planning, we build choice into it. That’s where this thing with lifetime ices, pensions, ices comes in, because what do each of these do? Will they either open up choices to us or they restrict choices when it comes to the unknown future that we’re living in. What my experience tells me is that most people are pretty bad at knowing what’s going to happen in 10 or 15 years in their lives, let alone the 30 years before you and I end up anywhere near state pension age. I’ll be there a bit sooner than you. When we’re talking about these long sweeps of time, it’s very, very hard. There’s so many potential futures that we could be living in In the meantime. All these decisions we make now either keep choice on the table or have choice off the table. For us, that’s the time and the tax there. Time is so important. We need to know when we’re going to be accessing this money. All that. We’ve got choices and options when it inevitably hits the fan beautifully described.

Dr James: 29:40

I love that. Let’s pull things back. We went on a tangent there, but it’s okay because there was a ton of out there. It was very useful and I love that. I love free silent. By the way, all these podcasts are ad lib. We barely plan anything before we come on. Let’s pull things back to lices versus pensions. In your experience what planning considerations should people think about before they make that choice?

Jon: 30:06

Yeah, so the first one, really, and I’m going to be a bit naughty here. You’ve told me not to do this, but I’m going to pull lices just into this conversation a little bit. Okay, that’s cool, because the thing that we need to think through is when do we want this money and what choices are we giving up or keeping on the table when we’re putting money into these savings vehicles? Because each of them can have the same investments in them? We wouldn’t do this. But let’s say you just want an S&P 500 index fund. It’s nice that we can have the same thing in all of them, so they’ll do the same thing over time. Now, with a pension, the agreement that you’re making with your future self is very, very clear. I’m putting this money into a pension At some point in my future, I will draw this money down and I will get full tax relief, not just the 25% uplift, but full tax relief on this contribution. For most dentists that’s going to be somewhere 40 to 45%, could even be more than that nasty tax track around 100 grand With their business owner. From April it is a 25% corporation tax, depending on their profit levels. It’s a very attractive tax relief and we’re making this contract with our future selves that this money is for my retirement. It’s a very clear contract with your older self With a lifetime ICER one. We’ve got to get that money into our personal name, so that’s a consideration that you’re going to have to make. Then it’s this question of what is the contract that I’m making with my future self. I think there’s quite a few unknowns around that that make that quite difficult. Is this money that we’re going to access earlier? Is this money that I’m going to leave for my retirement? There’s too many unknowns there for me that make it a little bit more fuzzy as to the agreement we’re making with ourselves With an ICER. I probably will need this money at some point in the middle to long term Often school fees or with a lot of dentists, I have this phrase minding the gap. Most dentists I speak to have an age of 60 in their mind for retirement. It comes from nowhere else other than an anchoring effect with the 95 pension scheme.

Dr James: 32:53

It’s cultural right, it’s cultural.

Jon: 32:58

Retirement at 60, because every dentist who came before me retired at 60. For anyone in the 2015 scheme or in private pensions, this isn’t the case anymore. You don’t have this age, but we still have this desire of retiring before state pension age. We’ve got this gap between when we want to retire and when all our NHS pension income comes in or our state pension. We might be that we’re looking to fund the gap there between 60 and 68. We might be that we’re trying to fund other things. It’s really important, when you’re going through these decisions, to work out what is the purpose I’m trying to achieve with this, and then am I using a pension or life time iser or an ISA to fill that need?

Dr James: 33:54

Yeah, so it’s a cash flow financial planning thing right. Yeah, 100% yeah, 100%, that’s cool. That’s cool. Anything else, oh, here’s actually something interesting, right? So the profile of a person and we can speak broadly here without yeah, the profile of a person who picks a lisa Versus a private pension is a common denominator, is a common factor. Yeah, yeah.

Jon: 34:18

So where we tend to use them is where We’ve got either annual allowance or lifetime allowance concerns, ah, lovely. So someone who is already putting 40,000 into their pension, or because of their NHS pension, might be over that you know. Any doctors having a sneaky listen Might know that as well, you know. So someone who’s already maxing out their pensions or someone who’s, through investment, growth and diligence savings, getting up towards that and that lifetime allowance of 1.1 whatever it is these days Million, right, in which case we go, I’m already doing everything I can on maximizing tax relief. On putting into pensions. I still want to put money away for retired me and then a lifetime isa Could fit that that bill because you will get that that tax relief annuals. Your contract of your future self is this is for 60 plus year old me.

Dr James: 35:27

Very nice. Here’s something that just popped into my head. For anybody who has got this far in the podcast, I know what it’s like to listen to a podcast. Your mind starts to wander a little bit. Okay, you’re in the shower, you’re driving home, you’re in the gym, you’re doing a rap. Listen the hell up to this part right now, because this will be very valuable. John, is there any disadvantage to just open an Eliza, sticking a quid in it before your 40 and just keeping it ticking along?

Jon: 35:57

Not that I can think of, and I’ve done this with a couple of clients. You know that one of the things with the lifetime license is you have to open it before your 40 and if you get to age 40 in one day, you’re not allowed to open one up, but you don’t have to contribute every year. So, yes, you could well, if you want to, if you’ve got FOMO, if you’re a pre reaching, open up a lifetime. I see, could I even open up a cash lifetime ice if you’re, you know, maybe a bit risk-averse or you don’t like making decisions under pressure and Get, get one opened. You can transfer them, you can, you can top it up in future years and at least you have the option. That choice is still on the table for you when in your planning through your 40s and 50s in terms of contributions that’s an isa hack right there, you know and there’s actually a few other isa hacks like that and we should probably do a podcast on that someday.

Dr James: 36:57

A summary of isa hacks the things that you need to know about your eyes to get the max out of it. Isa hacks there we go.

Jon: 37:03

I just made that flexible isa hack familiar.

Dr James: 37:07

Yeah, this is it, this is it. And there’s also that thing when it’s like, if you’re between 16 and 18, you can have a junior isa and a cash isa at the same time, so you can actually receive 29,000 points in total into your own name. I’m right in saying that, right.

Jon: 37:24

Yeah, yeah, and it is that. That’s great if you’re thinking about your own children and you trust them not to go and blow that money.

Dr James: 37:36

Listen. That was a flippant awesome podcast, john. Thank you so much for your time. For anybody who’s listening. John Doyle on the group Juniper wealth. John, can you give us a little bit more information about where to find you?

Jon: 37:46

Yeah, you can find me, Juniper underscore John, on Instagram and Twitter. You can find me on LinkedIn as well and Juniper wealth dot couk, or you can just DM me on on Facebook. I’m all over the group trying to add value and it’d be helpful where I can, probably trying to add too much nuance to Facebook comments. Something really funny. My 15 year old knows when I’m commenting on the Facebook group because she laughs at my face and the the kind of almost like I’m playing a conversation in my face.

Dr James: 38:28

That that’s fine. I recognize that pure concentration and it’s probably testament to the amount of thought you’re putting in, to the value they give on there. So thank you, john, we owe you. It’s a pleasure much love my man, john. Blinding podcast today always pleasure to have. You will catch up very soon.

Jon: 38:44

I’ll see you soon. See you soon.