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Dentists Who Invest

Podcast Episode

Full Transcript

Dr James: 

Hey team, what is up? Welcome back to the Denysio Invest podcast. We’re returning and familiar face, my good friend John Doyle, ifa. John and I are going to be covering portfolio building 101 today. We’re going to talk about how you can begin to take your first steps into investing or, if you’re already there, how can you build your knowledge further so that you know that your strategy is optimized and you’re getting the best result. Isn’t that right, john?

Jon: 

It is, yeah, yeah, quite exciting for me, lovely lovely.

Dr James: 

How have you been since your last book?

Jon: 

Pretty good, pretty good. I’ve done my first triathlon for the year, so that went okay. And had a nice time surfing in Wales as well, so it’s been quite good.

Dr James: 

You did your first triathlon, the world flipping thing of the year.

Jon: 

Yeah, yeah, so I’ve got a few more proper ones later in the year. This was a little short sprint one, but it was good fun. It was good fun.

Dr James: 

No, I’m just stunned because I know you’ll be able to round this off off the top of your head, but I vaguely know this as someone who, as an athlete who’s well, an athlete might be a stretch, but as a person who has never, ever competed in a triathlon, all I know is that they’re long, they’re hard and they require a lot of physical endurance. How many miles is it you run and then you swim.

Jon: 

This one was a sprint triathlon.

Dr James: 

Okay.

Jon: 

So it’s only a 5K run. At the end it’s like a 10-mile bike and a 400-meter swim. So it’s a little diddy one who was done in an hour and five minutes, an hour and 10 minutes like a little one. I’ve got a proper Olympic one later in the year. Respect.

Dr James: 

Respect, fair play, and how much is the full thing, the full turkey?

Jon: 

Oh, I’ve never done an Ironman, I’ve never done one of those, but they’re like you know, you run a marathon. At the end, having already done like 160 or 180K on the bike and a three-mile swim, I’ve done a half one, which was brutal enough. That was like seven hours, but that was a few years ago.

Dr James: 

And that’s what you’re going to do this year the full thing.

Jon: 

No, I’m doing an Olympic one, which is what you’d see at the Olympics. So that’s like a 1500-meter swim, a 45K bike and a 10K run.

Dr James: 

That’s still a solid effort. That’s off me at fair play. Anywho, we should probably talk about investing at some point today. So portfolio building from the ground up. Let’s break this down really simple, because there’ll be a real diaspora of people listening to this podcast. Some people will have never invested because they don’t really understand the point. Some people will be seasoned hardcore veterans off the scene and we’re going to ensure that everybody’s catered for in this podcast. Of course, let’s start from the start Best place usually and let’s discuss why it’s a good idea to think about investing if you haven’t already doubled.

Jon: 

Yeah, I think the easiest place to do is think right back to the first principles of what is it we’re doing when we’re investing. We’re basically making a decision that I don’t want to spend this money today, but I want to spend it in the future, and I want it to be worth at least the same amount in the future in terms of purchasing power. And I used to have to spend a lot of time explaining inflation to people, but we can’t have all get it a little bit now because we’re seeing it week by week in the supermarket.

Dr James: 

Well, this is it right, you don’t need to use these analogies anymore, which I used to explain inflation. I used to say it’s the rising tide, it’s the rising, it’s like global warming. Right, the oceans are going to rise. Right, you’ve got to beat them, right, that’s what I used to say. But now you don’t even need to go there. You just say go to Taskos on Monday, go to Taskos on Friday, right, inflation boom, indeed, indeed.

Jon: 

Yeah, and it’s like I have a slide I showed you like New Florence. I call it the beer and burgers index. It’s like the cost of a beer or a burger from the 1980s right through to more recently and it was a good, fun way of saying like this is what we’re trying to do, really, because we want to be able to buy beer and burgers in 20 years, 30 years time. But we could all think about a Freddo, what a Freddo cost when we were a kid, right? Or what a counterpop was, although we shouldn’t probably eat those things, you know, because of dentists.

Dr James: 

I saw. I saw I saw Freddos for 69p the other day on Facebook. So that is 700%, you know, and I know that that not everything has been out. 700%, you know, but if Freddos is our yardstick, there was a lot of people who were indignant, so that’s what.

Jon: 

I say that yeah, yeah. And so when we’re making the decision to not spend today but want it for the future, whether that’s to set our kids up financially, whether it’s to retire, whether it’s to be able to go on a partner days in later life or whatever reason we’re choosing not to spend this money today, absolutely, job number one is to protect the purchasing power of this money. Inflations are biggest enemy, biggest enemy. So that’s reason number one as to why we need to do something with our money and cash. Typically, your bank account has been a very, very poor protection against inflation. It’s really underperforming there. Yes, it’s not protected. So we need to do something other than hold cash.

Dr James: 

Well, this is it right? If I look back on my journey, the real cold action for me was the day that I realized that actually you’re not okay by doing nothing, right? Whereas previously my mindset was oh well, okay, well, at least if I don’t do anything I’m not risking it, right? Actually, you’re risking everything by not doing anything. Unless you put yourself with this polish right, it’s a total mindset flip and I was like wow, I actually have to actively educate myself on this so that doesn’t happen to me.

Jon: 

Well, you even go back to the photos. Right, if you’ve had a pound coin in your drawer of your, you know, your bedside drawer, whatever? 20 years ago that was worth 10 photos. Now it’s not even worth two.

Dr James: 

Frightening stuff.

Jon: 

Yeah, so that’s the whole thing we’re looking to do is put our pounds somewhere until they turn into multiple pounds and we can buy as many, if not more, fredo’s in the future. Lovely job, please, whatever we’re doing.

Dr James: 

Now you speak in my language, okay, cool. So let’s move on to the next step, which is for us to articulate the elevator not pitch, but the elevator description, I suppose of how one can begin to be able to appreciate their wealth.

Jon: 

Yeah. So we would then say, well, we need to take this money and instead of having cash or currency, we need to buy assets. We need to buy things that either other people want or that have some form of utility. And so, typically, you’re looking at buying companies, so investing in the stock market, you look at buying property, you’re looking at lending money through buying bonds, either corporate bonds or government bonds or you might be looking at what we would in the advisor world alternative assets. You know, and you everyone’s got the friend to invest in watches or invest in whiskey, or invest in various other things. You know, but we need to be looking to do something to put our money into a store of value.

Dr James: 

Cool and, as an IFA, obviously we’ve got the steady eddy route. You know, we’ve got the things that people typically use to appreciate their wealth and we’ve got the more outside stuff, the it’s more unusual or exotic. Yeah, so what would you tend to advise is a great place to start for most people of that mix?

Jon: 

of assets. So my whole approach to investing is to be, where possible, evidence based, and so the most reliable and repeatable source of wealth growth and protection that we’ve got evidence for is the stock market. There’s over 100 years worth of data that we can look at for the stock market and it can be analyzed and looked at and assessed by academics and by investment managers, and it’s been proven that it is a fantastic store of wealth. Okay, so when we’re investing in the stock market, all we’re doing is becoming an owner of those companies. You could, in many ways, say that you’re. You’re giving your money to Jeff Bezos and to Tim Cook and to all these great CEOs around the world, and you’re saying I don’t, I don’t want to run a company. Can you run a company for me? And you’re owning a slice of their pie. So then, every time you know you’re an, if you’re an Apple shareholder, every time someone uses Apple Pay or downloads an app, you’re making profit as a shareholder. So that’s, that’s the V thing that we would look at. Doing with clients is say right, we need to look at the stock market, we need to own companies.

Dr James: 

I see right, and I’ve also. I’ve also, I’ve come across what you were saying just there. Another way of saying, in terms of purchasing a little bit of these companies and then having a stake in every single one the great companies of the world, another way of explaining it is we’re actually owning a little piece of the brain power of these people. We’re basically backing them and saying you’re smart, you know what you’re doing, the evidence is right there. I’m backing you to be able to continue doing what you’re doing, right, but it will never go all in, do we? Because then what that means is we’ve got all our eggs in one basket.

Jon: 

Well, this is it. And I actually was talking to a client the other week about this and they they flipped it back on me and was like it’s like standing on a nail versus lying on a bed of nails. Right, if you stand on one nail, if you go out there and buy one company, there’s every chance that that nail is going to go right through your foot. But if you diversify and you own all the companies, you’ve got a bed of nails going on. People walk over and lying that stuff without any pain, and it’s that’s what we’re trying to do. And I was like that’s quite a nice little analogy. I’ll steal that one.

Dr James: 

There we go.

Jon: 

You know, when it comes, there’s many, many sort of rules of thumb and interesting things we can look at in investing, but the only one that is 100% cast iron is diversification, diversification, diversification. We want to spread our money out to reduce risk. So we don’t go out and buy one company. We go out and we buy many companies, and different IFA’s and different investment managers will have different ideas on what they think a lot of companies is, you know. So some of those, it would be 30 companies. For others it’s 10,000 companies. But we want to diversify.

Dr James: 

Yeah, so we go about. They go about it in slightly different ways, right. But, they’re all of the school of thought that it’s a good thing to diversify to a greater extent. We can get and we can get into that and you know what? We can probably make a whole flipping podcast about diversification in itself. What we’ll do is we’ll cover from a high level and how that’s done in just a moment. Yeah, a lot of people who are listening to this podcast and maybe this is now where we’re catering for the people who are already Investing a lot of people who are listening to this podcast will have been allocated a Proportion of their portfolio to bonds, right being allocated by their FA to bonds. Where do bonds come into it, in your opinion? And, by the way, I’m right in saying that it’s usually government bonds and not corporate bonds.

Jon: 

It’s a bit of a yeah really depends on the, the, the financial planner or the investment manager. I’m probably gonna use a fair amount of analogies that I do tend to lean on drinking analogies, so apologies to anyone listening, he doesn’t drink. Hopefully they still carry the the same meaning, it doesn’t lose it. But. But I would describe bonds as being like the tonic in a gin and tonic Okay, okay, it’s. It’s the thing that takes the edge off, and and this is what we do with bonds in a portfolio, because the problem with equities Is that they have they go up and down there. They can be volatile, and we have these. I call them moments in markets, or temporary declines, where People will see the stock market reducing in value is what we’re going through right now. You might hear it referred to as a bear market, and so we use government bonds. According to modern portfolio theory, government bonds Will then reduce that volatility because they’re not Correlated they don’t do the same things at the same time so they tend to have a lot less up and downs. I See.

Dr James: 

So when we’re gearing our portfolio more towards smoothing out the volatility, then we can think about Allocating the proportion of that to bonds. And there’s a variety of reasons why we do that right. One can be psychological reasons, the other can be because we’re now transitioning our Assets to the point that we can make cash withdrawals right.

Jon: 

Yeah. So I mean, I have this belief that really for most people we’re investors for life, with the need for cash flow, love that. So if you think you know, like if we think back, if I think back to sort of 2008, 9, when I was being trained as a financial advisor, it was a, you know, you get to 60 or 65, you sell your investments, you buy an annuity and you retire. And In the last decade I’ve arranged one annuity for a client.

Dr James: 

Wait, can I just pause there for two seconds? Annuities were still a thing as recently as that. 2009. Annuities yeah, oh, so was. Was it that that was just what they taught you in FA school but in in practice, people didn’t use them?

Jon: 

no, no, they were. They were still a thing right through till 2014-2015. I didn’t know that yeah, you know so, and they’re making a bit of a comeback for low risk people. But anyway, the idea, you know you sort of have this thing of 60 being the end point of our investment journey. But really, you know, we look at life expectancy of a couple One of them is going to live to 88, 90 and you’re retiring at 60. You’ve still got a 30 year time horizon and all you wanting is cash flow. You’re wanting money to, you know, go on holidays and to treat the kids and the grandkids and to Replace the car and do the shopping and your family. And then you have to do the shopping. And you know you have to do the shopping and you have to do the shopping. And you have to do the shopping the kids and the grandkids and to replace the car and do the extension and sort this out, sort that. But you never can that cash it all in at once, not if you’ve planned properly and done a good job throughout your working life.

Dr James: 

There we are right. So it’s all about cash flow, right. And then the bonds. Bonds come into it, or at least they can come into it when we want to transition our stocks portfolio To cash flow, to cash.

Jon: 

Yeah, yeah. And the biggest reason why we use bonds at Juniper is to help with behavior. You know, we have clients who are nervous investors. Maybe they’ve never done this before, or they’ve sold a business, a practice, and they’re suddenly sitting on a lot of money and it can be very difficult. And I had a meeting, just today actually, with a client who sold his business in January 2020. We invested the money from his business in February 2020. And so you can imagine the journey he’s had. In that time. We deliberately put a reasonable amount of bonds in his portfolio because we knew, if something happened, his life’s work we can’t, he won’t be able to stomach that dropping 30%, there’s no way. And then look what happened March 2020, suddenly everything’s falling and his portfolio dropped, I think 10%, which he could live with. And then he stuck it through and we’ve dialed up the equity content since, because he’s now used to this, he trusts the process, he believes in the equities and they’ve done this journey before and I think as financial advisors, you know it’s very easy for us to forget that we’ve done this our day in, day out. You know it’s the same as a dentist pulling a tooth it is your day job, but for that person in the chair. They may never have had a filling or a tooth done before. And it’s the same for my clients. You know I’ve been through this, this journey, number of times 2008, 2009,. Great first years experience there for a new, newbie financial advisor, so you get used to it. So we use these bonds to kind of particularly for nervous clients or for clients who are, you know, new in the journey. We’ll use bonds to just even things out a little bit and then dial equities up to the point where they fully trust the process that we’re taking them through.

Dr James: 

Very, very, very cool. Okay, cool, thank you for that. So let’s move back to equities now, and we use the D word diversification, and we kind of have explained it. Yeah, what is it that we need to know in order to diversify our equities portfolios suitably?

Jon: 

Yeah, so if you, If you go back 30, 40 years, the common wisdom was 30 equities, 30 stocks was diversified. Okay, which is? You know? When we think about that now, it’s madness. You know that 30 stocks is a very concentrated portfolio.

Dr James: 

Well, the DAO is 30 and it’s all flipping train companies, you know, and some people used to buy the DAO and just say there’s my retirement fund. But anyway, sorry.

Jon: 

Yeah, well, this is it, this is it. So now you know, there are in excess of 20,000 listed companies across the world that we can invest in. Now. Some of those are so small that they’re not worth buying as retail investors or as in funds. But when we’re looking at diversification, the first thing we’re looking at is global diversification. The biggest mistakes that I see when it comes to diversification is buying the S&P 500 and thinking you’re diversified, because if you’ve just got the S&P 500, you’ve got 20% of your wealth in four companies. And yet there are thousands and thousands of companies out there to be invested in. And if you look back a decade, but who the top companies were in the S&P 500, they weren’t the same companies that they are today. There’s one or two of them that are still the same, but a lot of them aren’t, because it’s very hard, when a company gets very, very big, to continue to be the innovator. So you want to diversify, so we diversify. It’s the same with the FTSE 100. I’ve come across clients with. I have a FTSE 100 tracker. That’s my diversification, and what you’ve got really is a very, very small part of the world economy. Here’s a question for you I’m going to put you on the spot here If you were to put the global stock markets into an allocate percentage, what percent of the world stock market do you think the UK is?

Dr James: 

I actually really recently talked about this to someone and off the top of my head, it’s 3%.

Jon: 

Very close. Yeah, that’s really good. Yeah, that’s just under 4%.

Dr James: 

Oh, okay.

Jon: 

Yeah.

Dr James: 

In America it’s something that’s seen like 50, right, yeah, 60.

Jon: 

60. Oh, 60. Whoa, yeah, yeah, and there was a point it’s dropped off a bit since, but there was a point where Apple was bigger than the entire UK stock market. Oh, that is just crazy, Right? So these numbers I’ll give you a couple of numbers If I can. Yeah, so this is at the end of 2021. Apple was worth 2,154 billion and the whole UK stock market not just the FTSE 100, but the FTSE all share in the A market was worth 2,450 billion. That’s insane.

Dr James: 

I’ve got another fun one which is similar to that. Do you know, in the 80s, when Japan’s stock market peaked out, it was bigger than America’s, yeah, briefly, yeah. So the nation of 120 million per nation of, I think it was like 250, 300 million. That’s how successful they were back then. But then they’ve had this whole stagflation thing. It’s kind of peered out. Population decline hasn’t helped them, but anyway, I love little factoes like that.

Jon: 

This is it. And so the UK used to be about 11% about 15, 20 years ago, and so the UK’s been on the decline. So why do we diversify globally and not just the S&P 500 or even the US whole market? It’s because you don’t know which country is going to come through and which currency is going to outperform over time. There’s all sorts of theories out there about the changing political order. If you’re a Ray Dalio reader or any of these sort of things. We’ve got the rise of China or India and the BRIC countries. We’ve got the EU. We don’t know, there’s no predicting it, but so we need to diversify across all of these countries to make sure that we’re in with the chance, over our 30, 40, 50 year time horizon, of protecting the value of our money and being in the great companies of the world. So we diversify.

Dr James: 

Lovely joffly, so that’s why we do it. I know we’ve got to be a little wary about this, given that we don’t want to contravene any rules about financial advice or anything. Let’s take it one step further, as much as we can. How would we do that? How does that actually translate to the actions that we undertake? Ok, yeah.

Jon: 

So we’ll talk in theory and try and avoid any. Oh, I pressed the button. So I’ve got to stand up there and say, oh, I pressed the button. That’s why my camera’s moving and people are watching this on the camera. Oh there. We can cut that bit out if you want. So we won’t mention any funds or anything like that. In essence, there’s three ways that we can go out and invest in the stock market. We can go out and buy companies directly ourselves okay and we can try and decide for ourselves which companies are going to outperform or which ones we believe in. Achieving diversification will be very, very hard if you do that, because you’re going to be buying such tiny fragments of some of these companies that you just won’t have the scale. So you end up with a quieter, concentrated portfolio which will either do really well, because you’ve got lucky and picked some good companies, or really badly, because you got unlucky and picked some really bad companies. It can also be complicated trying to buy in foreign markets, depending on the platforms you’re using. You can go out and buy an active fund where we’re essentially paying a fund manager to make those stock-picking decisions for us. Some of those will buy a specialism in a specific market. So you can go out and buy a FTSE 100 active fund and they will just play in the FTSE 100 and try and outperform. Or some of them have global remits where they will try and pick from the global market. You then rely very much on that fund manager’s skill, which is various studies that have shown. Most of them don’t have a lot of skill. There’s a few maybe less than 1% who do. You’ve got to pick the right ones. You’ve got to pack the right ones on the active fund game, but some people do enjoy that side of it. Or you can go out and you can buy an index fund. Sometimes these are passive funds. With an index fund, you are playing a basket of investments within whatever the remit of that index fund is. Sometimes you can look at ETFs as well, or another type of index fund or passive instrument. What you’ve got to be wary of with an index fund is just because it’s an index fund doesn’t mean that it’s going to be diversified, because you can get really niche index funds. You can get the ones that only invest in companies that are in automation, and you might have an index fund with 15 companies in it, etc. Just because it’s an index fund. You’ve got to look at what is that index fund and what’s it going to do within my portfolio.

Dr James: 

There we go, lovely hot. Take on that. I wanted to chuck something in on top as well. You know, whenever it comes to this whole active versus passive thing, you’ve got the people who are just like I just want somewhere to store my wealth. That’s basically what investing is. It’s just a better place to store it. It’s another way of thinking about it. I get that philosophy where you buy an index which has like, for the 60 years of history, to say that it’s appreciated, which you know. That history is on your side at the very least, doesn’t mean that it’s a guarantee it’s going to continue. Of course you have to get that little disclaimer in there. At least you’ve got a huge amount of history on your side. You’re also literally using the methods that an FA can’t use. Anyway, you’ve just educated yourself in it. You’ve got that weight behind you. Let’s say that You’ve got that philosophy. And then you’ve got the people who fancy it a little bit and they’re like well, I’m going to go by this company and see how it does. I read this thing that says that Apple is going to have a good year, so I’m going to buy Apple and blah, blah, blah and all this stuff With that whole philosophy. Take this from someone who’s been there and done it a million times way back in the day and now does it purely passively. And the reason for that is what I always noticed is you might even do well for a start. One of two things will happen It’ll go really well or it won’t go so well and you’ll be like let’s do this, I’m just going to go passive. But when it goes well, the whole psychological phenomenon you have to work against is where you think you’re hot shit basically, and you’re like yeah, I beat the market. I’ve been investing for two months and I’m beat the market. It goes well. But then when it doesn’t go so well because you’re not to consistently beat it, it’s very, very, very, very difficult. If professional fund managers can’t do it, the amateur, the beginner, has little hope. So let’s say it does outpace the start, and then, after that point where it starts to not do so well, that is actually tougher than when it does do well by an absolute mile. Because then you start to think to yourself Jesus, what am I doing? Have I got in over my head here? What do I do next? And the whole turmoil that you put yourself through in that scenario consumes so much brain space, so many times, that the eventual conclusion that it led to for me, where I was just like you know what, I’m just going to go passive, just buy a fund that reflects an index that is 50 years of history. Then I know that there’s a huge amount of history on my side and whether it goes up or down, I know that the trend is upwards. The trend is your friend. The bend at the end is the last bit and it goes from bottom left to top right, and for me I was like, all of a sudden, I was getting consistent rates of appreciation over many years, of course, consistent because it’s a long game consistent rates of appreciation that consumed exponentially less headspace. And I was like, right, this is for me.

Jon: 

So this is it, Like our investment philosophy. At Juniper, we’ve got an awful lot of research that’s gone into why we invest the way we invest, including like a document that runs to about seven, eight thousand words that details our investment philosophy. Because for us, when we put something in our client portfolio, we really need to know the rationale of why that’s there. Because then, when the market changes or when the world does something you weren’t expecting, you’ve got to ask yourself was the rationale right? Is our rationale still right? And what did I base these decisions on? Would I you know? Was it a good decision? And it’s the same when you’re doing this DIY. You have to know what is the reason you picked this company or this fund. What did you believe about them that made them deserve a place in your portfolio? And I’d almost encourage people to write it down, Even if it’s a couple of bullet points. I bought this company because I believe X, Y and Z. And then, when you doubt yourself in a few months or a few years, go back and ask yourself how often you got it right. And the other thing that they’d even do is just sit down and play the game up or down, Just for a week, two weeks Is the general stock market. Pick an index S&P 500, FTSE 100, and just play the up and down game. Is it gonna go up? Is it gonna go down? It doesn’t take very long for you to realize that you don’t know. These short-term games are so, so difficult. There’s a thought experiment called a random walk down Wall Street, where a guy flipped a coin like 500 times and recorded the results and put it into a statistical chart and showed it to a load of fund managers and as though it was a company, and asked them to predict what was gonna happen to the company next. And yeah, it was just a flip of a coin. There was no actual statistical reasoning behind it, there was no evidence, it was just. This is what it looked like historically.

Dr James: 

I think that’s it.

Jon: 

Yeah.

Dr James: 

Interesting stuff. No, it really is so seemingly spontaneous in the short-term, seemingly sporadic, and that is basically what you’re up against when you’re picking stocks and you know what. I’m sure there’ll be some people out there who can do it successfully. But here’s my logic, right? If you’re gonna learn how to run, you gotta learn how to walk first, at the very least, which is the yeah.

Jon: 

And I think, when people think about the people who have done it successfully, people like Warren Buffett are often their go-tos, right. But here’s the thing that Warren Buffett has that you and I don’t. When he believes in a company, he doesn’t invest in it, he buys it. He’s the third biggest shareholder in Apple, so if he has an idea about what Apple should be doing or some sort of issue with the way Tim Cook’s running the business, he picks up the phone, he takes Tim Cook for dinner and Tim Cook has to listen, right. The other two investors who are bigger than him is Vanguard and BlackRock, right?

Dr James: 

So when that’s interesting.

Jon: 

That’s you know. And between them, they own about 15% of Apple, vanguard, blackrock and Berks are half the way. So when Warren Buffett is out performing the market over a number of years, yeah, he’s got time on his side, he’s got incredible discipline and he’s got the ability to make impacts in that company that other mortals don’t.

Dr James: 

There we go, I’m reading. Incidentally, I’m reading his book at the minute, the University of Berkshire, hathaway.

Jon: 

Oh, okay, cool yeah.

Dr James: 

I’ve got a few books. I’m spinning a few plates when it comes to books at the minute, but that’s one of them and I’ve just it’s like a chronology of all the AGMs, okay, for Berkshire Hathaway, right, and it’s like chapter one is 1970, something like that, and then each chapter corresponds to a year, so I’m in the year 1991 at the minute, right, and he’s just bought Coca-Cola. Okay, we’re gonna see how that transpires. I don’t think he’s invested in Apple yet, but I’ll keep everybody posted on that one.

Jon: 

Anyway, in the short term, very, very hard to know what’s gonna happen right In the long term. Humanity and capitalism has this ability to innovate and generate value, and that’s all the stock market is doing is capturing the value that humanity creates. Okay, so when they invent the iPod, or when they invent Coca-Cola, or when they invent open AI and chat GPT, eventually these things will captured by companies because we love using their products and services and, as shareholders, we capture the value. So the stock market will have these temporary declines, but it goes up way more than it goes down, and so, over time, it’s where we want to be, but don’t try and predict in the short term.

Dr James: 

Boom. Thank you for that, John, and you know what? What a nice note to end the podcast. I’m gonna come up to the 40 minutes mark-ish. If anybody wants to know more, where can they find yourself, john?

Jon: 

Well, you can find us at juniperealthcouk. We have juniperealthuk on Instagram. I’m Juniper John on Instagram and there’ll be lots of ways You’ll find me hanging around the Facebook group. There is so much more that we could go into like there’s days of stuff, so hopefully we’ll do another one of these and take this deeper.

Dr James: 

We will 100%. I need to do more tangible investing podcasts because I know that we kind of bounce around between being profitable in business and all that stuff and I wanna move the podcast back to the essence, the reasons why we created it initially. So, yeah, watch this space everybody, let’s do one. I think diversification will be a good one, right? Or are you building on what we did today?

Jon: 

Yeah, there is like so much we could go into that, and on asset allocation, which is the fundamental part of diversification, so maybe that’s our next one.

Dr James: 

That’s the next one right there, boom John. Thank you so much for your time, mate. We’ll catch up really soon.

Jon: 

Absolutely pleasure.