Dentists Who Invest

Podcast Episode

Full Transcript

Dr James: 0:47 

Hey team, welcome back to the Dentists Who Invest podcast with your host, dr James Martin, and very special guest today, dr Jassy Sidhu. Jassy is a dentist first and foremost, but he’s also someone who’s created a magnificent property portfolio, and Jassy is here to share his wisdom on how that’s done on a technical level, but also a little bit about the mindset behind creating a portfolio of assets outside of dentistry and the direct benefits it has in his life, so that we can all conceptualize this and see it firsthand and understand why investing is so flipping worth it. Jassy, how are you today? 

Dr Sandeep: 1:21 

Yeah, good man, good good can’t complain. Living the dream, living the dream. 

Dr James: 1:25 

Awesome, you’re going to be a great guest. in that case, much wisdom to impart. Well, just for context, everybody who’s listening, it is a Wednesday at half four, so I’m going to presume, jassy, that some of that property, investing the cash flow generated from it, has allowed you to reduce how much dentistry you’re doing day to day. Yeah, definitely. Oh, room to bar, and we’re going to get into that in just a minute. Jassy, for the people who have yet to meet you, are you able to give us a little bit of a rundown of your background and who you are? 

Dr Sandeep: 1:55 

Yeah, yeah, of course. So, Born and Raised in Birmingham, went to University of the Dentistry in Leeds and graduated in 2010. After that I went straight into my VT, started working on the National Health, kind of got into the rat race It’s like NHS is very conveyor belt style So got into that kind of started to realise that I didn’t want to do this for the rest of my life. I actually accidentally got into property through a friend of mine who kind of showed me what he was doing, Started investing about eight years ago and never looked back. It’s a slow burner, It’s not a getting rich quick scheme, But if you’re persistent and you go with it, it’s fantastic. And now I can work when I want really, So it’s good. 

Dr James: 2:44 

Flipping love. That, my dear. And you know what? It’s funny that you use that word accidental, right? Because the number of people that I’ve come across, including myself, who just found something almost by exploring And they just thought this is so flipping cool, the entire world needs, the entire world needs to know about this. And if, anyway, it’s the only way to find those things, because otherwise you’re just on the beaten path, aren’t you? You know? and the thing about the beaten path is it’s already been trodden, And what I mean by that is what I mean by that is it’s a very set journey, it’s a very predefined journey. Are you with me? Yeah, so you’ll wind up with the same outcome as everybody else. And here’s the thing you might want that outcome, but you also might not want that outcome. And if you don’t want that outcome, then feeling like you have to conform to everybody else is going to be the thing that’s destructive to you actually achieving the thing which is aligned with your inner essence and your inner needs, whatever that might look like. And most people? what most people want is financial freedom, what most people will actually know. Let me roll back on that. What most people actually want is freedom. It’s just that having cash flow from assets that mean that you don’t necessarily have to work, residual income is the best way to get to that point right, which is literally what property is. 

Dr Sandeep: 3:54 

Yeah, yeah, i definitely agree with that. I think, um, yeah, money, when you have money, it just gives you the options and the complete freedom to do what you want when you want, and that’s kind of what everyone wants. So I think we’re quite free spirited individuals and like it’s uh, i think, especially when you’ve been stuck in the right ways for so long, you just kind of like that is the um, it’s like the American dream, right? Everyone wants that kind of thing. 

Dr James: 4:18 

Yeah bro, Yeah bro. You know, when I, when I hear that word, the American dream, I always think of that book, What’s that flipping book called of Massen men? 

Dr Sandeep: 4:28 

I always think that in that books. 

Dr James: 4:30 

that was just what that was doing to me mentally then, which is awesome because you know, obviously that is an amazing thing to aspire towards the freedom to do whatever the heck you want, Very cool. So, property, you said that you got into it accidentally. What, what? what exactly happened? 

Dr Sandeep: 4:46 

Was it like a conversation between you and a friend, or Yeah, Okay, So for the, you know, um, I was on a road trip, um, and there were 10 of us like good friends from school and university, Um, and we did a road trip down California. So we did like LA, um San Diego, um San Francisco, and we ended up in Vegas, Um, and I’ve been working for a while, right, And as a dentist, when you come out at that age, our income is actually quite high for the age that we are. With most jobs, you kind of get higher and higher, Whereas dentistry you kind of go up, you earn quite like your plateau. Then again, as you get older, you kind of like you slow down. So I was doing it pretty well. Um, we’re in Vegas with popping bottles and I wanted to go, oh yeah oh yeah. Like aces, fades, goose, everything. Can I always like whoa, like he was one of my friends, friends. I was like, what do you do, Um? and he goes, he goes to do property, Um, and is that? look, if you want, come down, I’ll show you my operation, I’ll show you how it works, kind of thing. So after that trip I went down um, looked at like his operation and basically just kind of like copied it, Um, and I did my first property investment, which was a flip Um, and that I think I bought. I bought a house for 85 grand, spent 15 on it and sold it for 120 or 125. Um. And after that I was like, wow, this is all right, That was in six months, This is like not bad at all, Um. And then I just, I just basically just carried on and carried on and I’ll have a look back. 

Dr James: 6:15 

Yeah, man, well, if you, if you managed to like, not lose money on your very first flip, i think that’s the success in itself, isn’t it? And here’s the ROI. Here’s the ROI that people don’t appreciate. The real ROI, it’s the skills and knowledge that you get through doing it, right? It’s not even really about the money at that level, at that point, right. But I feel like this there’s like this inertia that we’re all waiting for the perfect opportunity, but what people don’t actually get is that, if you just go ahead and do something, that you’ll gain the skills required in order to become better at it, in order to undertake it, and then, at that point, it’s just iterating and iterating and iterating to become better and better at that particular thing, and then the money comes inevitably. 

Dr Sandeep: 6:54 

I mean, i don’t think there’s ever such thing as a perfect opportunity. Um, you, you’ve just got to kind of go for it. Um, and there’s a famous saying in property don’t wait to buy property, buy property and then wait, cause the source is going to go up. 

Dr James: 7:08 

I like that I like that. Okay, cool. So that was your first property and you were 28. Did you say that? 

Dr Sandeep: 7:14 

I hear that about 26, 26, 26. 

Dr James: 7:17 

Okay, and then what happened after that? more properties. 

Dr Sandeep: 7:20 

Yeah, so, so that that was good. I made like 20 grand or something of that, which was nice, um. And then I bought a another property in Birmingham. I picked that up. That was a repossession, um. The day it came on the market I viewed it and I put my friends straight away. I bought that for 125 grand. I spent 300 pounds on it. So a bit of painting, a bit of painting cleaning the carpets, and I got that revalued six months later at 175. 

Dr James: 7:52 

Not a bad investment. 

Dr Sandeep: 7:54 

Yeah, That that was, that was good. And then that’s that’s when I started, that’s when I got a little bit cocky. Oh, okay, A little bit cocky. Yeah, i got this on top, i’m going to smash it, um, and then I got it, and then the next thing I did uh, it worked out well in the end, but it was very stressful at the time. The next thing I did is um, i saw an abandoned hotel. It was quite derelict. Oh wow, um, in fact. Um, it used to be a hotel that used to like host parties and, um, i used to go there for for like a six-person parties, and the last time I was there, i actually got thrown at the party. 

Dr James: 8:31 

I got you, i got you Okay. 

Dr Sandeep: 8:34 

Okay, yeah, so, yeah. so I had to look at. I didn’t have enough money myself to do that by itself. So I sent out a message to, like my friends, family. I was like, look, i think kind of what I’m doing now I’ve only got half the money. does someone want to come on board with me and we’ll do it together? And then one of my mates brother, he got back. he’s like yes, let’s do it. And yeah, so we bought a hotel, didn’t have planning permission. planning permission was lapsed. We thought that means that you’ll automatically get planning permission again, which is not the case. We learned the hard way And we converted that into 32 bedsets. So yeah, so so that that that was a long project. It took longer than I thought it would. It cost me more than I thought it would. Everything that could possibly go wrong went wrong And it was a very stressful time, but it worked out very, very well in the end. 

Dr James: 9:32 

Touch wood Touch wood, touch wood because it’s still going. You still have it Yeah yeah, that’s a cash cover. 

Dr Sandeep: 9:38 

I wouldn’t sell that. That’s just monthly income. 

Dr James: 9:41 

Oh, beautiful, right. Well, if there’s 32 bedsets in there I mean the cash one must be pretty good. 

Dr Sandeep: 9:46 

32 people, you know yeah, yeah, we’ll review more because it like last year. So we pulled a lot of money out, so it’s not as good as it was, but it’s still decent, okay, very cool, my man, okay cool. 

Dr James: 9:56 

So, having had all these experiences and properties and what have you and I know that there’s obviously different categories of properties, so there’s commercial and there’s bad alets and there’s all all of this stuff You can look back on your journey And like, let’s say, for example, there’s somebody’s listening to this podcast, is at the very start of their journey, right. And if you could look back on your journey and say, wow, if only I would have known this thing whenever I was at the very beginning, what would you say to those people? Would you say start off with a buy to let. Or would you say in for a penny, in for a pound, buy a hotel and convert it into bed sets and go wild, because, even though it’s going to be tough, you’re going to learn loads. What’s the philosophy? 

Dr Sandeep: 10:35 

Okay. So it depends on your appetite for risk, right? I’m quite like that. Yeah, when you’re young, you can afford to take more risk, because if things don’t go to plan, you’ve got more time to recover, Whereas when you’re older you’re probably going to be more risk adverse. So I think it depends not only on your risk, your risk mindset, but your mindset in general as well. Like with me, you know, if something gets in my way, I’m like okay, I need to, I need to get past this hurdle, And I’m very like I’ll just go for it, I won’t stop. Yeah, bro, And I think because of that, that’s the only reason I was able to finish that project, And my business partner is exactly the same as well. Any hurdle came across to like okay, how are we going to sort that brainstorm? You got to not let the shit get to you, if that makes sense. But for genuinely speaking, if you want, if you’re doing dentistry and you want to start, I would always start with flips first, get a big cash pot, And then I would probably say good, start with your single. Let’s learn how how it works, Because there’s a lot of legislation in property and it’s getting more and more tedious. There’s more and more stuff coming in that makes it harder to be a landlord. So kind of like get to grips with how it all works first And then, if you want, maybe look at something like SA or HMOs. Hmo is quite a big buzzword at the moment because everyone’s like you make loads of cash flow. It’s not as glamorizing as people on social media make it out to me because you got high turnover tenants. When they leave, you’re going to have to sort the car, please that you have to repaint. You got a void. When you find a new tenant, you got tenant fine fees. So although your growth income might be high, it doesn’t matter, because your net is what you’re looking at. Why and there’s so much more cost associated with HMOs that your net might not be as good as you probably hope is when you see the red boiling game. 

Dr James: 12:30 

Right, very cool. I love the. I was interested. the specific reason why I asked that question about philosophies on risk etc is because obviously everybody has a different opinion on that. Some people are like the steady Eddie, if you do this, you build it up. But I actually am aligned with your philosophy in that when you’re young, you actually have a huge amount of time to recover from this stuff. And here’s the thing it depends on how you measure success, right? Okay, because even if you do lose a bit of money or whatever, well, when we’re talking about property, the chips are a bit bigger, are you with me? You know like there has to be there’s a fair bit of money on the table sometimes. So let’s, let’s assume we’re not talking about just going like totally wacky here, but like within reason, a little bit of risk can be a good thing. Okay, because actually you know that feeling where you feel overwhelmed or you feel stressed, providing you’re not at the point where your health is like diminishing or anything like that. That actually the point before you reach that stage is actually also the point where you’re probably gaining the most wisdom, which is really cool, right, because that wisdom and those learnings when you’re young, you’ve got a whole lifetime to capitalize on those things right, which would otherwise take someone potentially many years right, because you never really learn those lessons until you go through it. And then what it means for you is the more wisdom you have, and the sooner you have it, then the sooner that wisdom begins to compound, the sooner your wisdom begins to compound. Well, what that means is you’ve got a better pair of eyes for spotting deals and amazing bargains on the market, because you’ve experienced it before, you’ve seen these things before, you know what works and you know what doesn’t, and the better you are at that, the better you are at making money right. So there is a lot to be said for that philosophy, i believe. 

Dr Sandeep: 14:12 

Yeah, no, i definitely agree. I think resilience as well, and dealing with stress. If you don’t put yourself in a position where you are stressed, you’re never going to develop the mechanisms to cope with it. And the thing is, you’ve got to. If you really want to push yourself, you want to get out of your comfort zone which everyone should do you’ve got to be able to deal with stress. You’ve got to be able to get out that kind of comfort zone, because the best side of life is outside of that. 

Dr James: 14:38 

You know what. We’ll bring it back to property in two seconds, okay. But I just have one more thing to say on that, because this is a really cool thing that someone taught me once. So, if you think about it. The second most people try to avoid stress in their life, yeah, and most people who feel stressed are like, oh, actually, i’m not going to do that thing anymore, right, and here’s the thing it’s fine to do that, right, you can, you can decide whatever you want to do. Right, you can choose whatever you want to do. That’s cool, right. But sometimes what people want is an outcome, a positive outcome, like having a huge property portfolio or having cash flow So it means that they don’t have to work but also having this belief that they don’t want to put themselves through any stress. And if you have that, i think that outcome, with that belief or at direct odds with each other right. And what you can actually do is you can actually leverage that feeling, leverage that feeling of stress or overwhelm, and understand that actually, to a degree, it’s supposed to feel like that, the journey is supposed to feel like that when you’re undertaking these huge ambitions and grand plans to create these amazing portfolios of assets. And here’s a very powerful thing, right, is that when you realize that it’s supposed to feel like that, then what you can do is you can choose to put yourself in those situations and also recognize that you’re growing and you’re propelling, you’re propelling yourself towards your eventual destination, the more of those situations that you seek out. How cool is that? Right, obviously, we thought. Obviously we thought that compromising your health or anything like that, to the point where you’re like completely stressed out in bedridden or something like that. But what I’m talking about is you’ve got your comfort zone, you’re standing in it, you’ve got the edge of your comfort zone. What I mean is consistently leaning over the edge of your comfort zone so that your comfort zone expands, right, and when you know that when you feel those emotions, you’re actually leaning outside of your comfort zone and that’s where all the good things are in life, then you can purposely put yourself in those situations, which is a really cool thing. You get to choose what meaning you assign to that motion. You can actually choose to assign it a positive meaning. 

Dr Sandeep: 16:41 

Yeah, no, i definitely agree with that. Yeah, when I’m stressed, i always think I’m stressed because that means I’m doing a lot of making moves right now. You know what? 

Dr James: 16:54 

Dude, you just took what I had like a flip in three minute diatribe okay, a three minute monologue and you just summarized it in like two sentences there. I love that. What he just said, i love that. That’s cool. Anyway, let’s bring it back to the technical aspects of property a little bit more. So, your current portfolio, how does it look? What’s the composition, by the way, at CHMOs, all that stuff? 

Dr Sandeep: 17:19 

Oh, i’ve got a bit of everything really. I’ve got single family homes, i’ve got HMO sizing from six beds to 32 beds. I’ve got small blocks of flats. I’ve got my first essay, which I’m doing at the moment. So, yeah, a bit of everything really. Yeah, yeah, if the figure’s working, it’s going to make me money. I’ll do the deal. Cool bro, cool bro. What’s an essay, by the way? Service accommodation Ah, so what you do with that is you get like maybe like an apartment in Birmingham City Centre or somewhere where tourists will go, and then what you do is you put it on Airbnb or bookingcom, so it’s a bit like a hotel, and then you rent it. That way There’s more cost associated with like cleaning. Your management’s going to be like 20% instead of like 8%, but in the right area it can do quite well. 

Dr James: 18:09 

You know what. That’s extra cool because you are able to speak. You’re able to speak from experience and say which one of those categories, i suppose, of rentals is the most profitable and which one is your favourite business model. Do you have a preference? 

Dr Sandeep: 18:26 

Single family let’s, because they’re pretty much zero headache. Gotcha, i’ve got like managing agents. When I first started I used to do a lot of the build work myself because I wanted to learn. So I used to go in there. I used to do the plumbing, the first fix. Second fix, i used to do the electrics with the electrician, just so I understood. So I could go into a room like here’s a room you can do 1.5mm here, 2.5mm. Here for the shower you can need 10mm. This is where the runs are. I know the building regulations. The reason I wanted to learn that is because then when I get quotes off builders, i know what’s going on to the can’t pull like the can’t check it. Basically There’s a saying a builder will always charge you whatever he thinks he can get away with. But if you know exactly what it takes and how long it takes, i can then go back to him and say look, what you got to do is this, that that’s not going to take you this much. So I did it all myself, learned that I used to manage everything myself as well. So I managed the tenants, just so I understood the legislation, what it entails. But now I’ve got managing agents so I don’t deal with any tenants. I think I think we’ve probably got close to 50 tenants now. I don’t deal with any of that, but the book still stops with me. So when there’s issues that escalate, i’m still, you know and zoom with my managing agents, like you know. This is what we should do, that the other, and what I tend to find is with my single family lets. Pretty much nothing ever happens, hmos. There’s always something going on, there’s always some, there’s always a bad tenant and you end up having to kick him out. And the way that the law works these days is it’s always in favor of the tenant rather than landlord. So even if a tenant’s really bad, they’re causing vandalism. We had one guy that was doing heroin in one of the rooms. It’s still really hard to get them out, even when they’re doing stuff like that. So, yeah, hmos are nightmare. Single family lets are nice and easy. You don’t need to worry about that. And then, yeah, and then, in terms of actual, when you’re doing the refurbishments, once again HMOs, you’ve got to have your fire reds, you’re going to have your fire doors, your 30 minute resistance, all that kind of stuff. You got to apply for your license. So it’s it’s. It’s a lot more of an intense kind of refurb then a single family left. 

Dr James: 20:46 

Gotcha, and let’s let’s take the headache factor out of it. Let’s just straight up look at the numbers. Which would you say is the most profitable? HMOs because of cash flow, gotcha, okay. So when we say profitable, i suppose what we mean is net, yeah, even after, after the extra deductions and things like that, right. But then I suppose if you start the factor time in okay, like how much time you spend sorting stuff out, then maybe it probably swings back to the single family thing you were talking about earlier. 

Dr Sandeep: 21:17 

Yeah. So I think it depends on you’ve always got to do a calculation What’s your time worth, right? So every year I will look at everything. I’ll be like what’s my time worth as a dentist, what’s my time worth as the impoverty? And then I kind of kind of like, when someone comes up and it’s going to take my time, i know my head hand is in my time worth and I’ll use that to calculate whether I’m going to delegate that to someone else, whether I’m going to do it myself as well, because then I know overall I’m accumulating more wealth. So you’ve got to calculate that. And so if I’ve got a HMO and it’s taking me lots and lots of time, but my time is worth more than I don’t mind spending that time on dealing with a HMO. So, for example, a dentist, if you’re looking me, you’re going to earn what about 400 pound a day. So then your time is probably worthwhile dealing with it because you’re getting more cash flow And at the moment it’s the same for me. But once you get to a certain level your time you might be getting a cracking deal. So, for example, in one day you might get a deal where you’re going to net 20, 30 grand. So then your time is worthwhile. But you know I’m going to stick to the family list. I don’t want no headache because I’ve got so much of a portfolio. I just want to keep buying. And one of my friends is actually at that level now. He’s got a huge, huge portfolio of over 100 houses. So he’s literally just whatever’s easiest. he just does that. He’s got his team in place and it’s just snowballing Very cool. 

Dr James: 22:45 

Yeah, it’s, it’s, well, it’s. It’s the C word we used earlier. Right, it’s compounding, right, but it’s it’s for most people. Most people are at various stages of the long tail before it goes exponential. Are you with me? Yeah, yeah, and it’s an important thing to remember that that it feels slow until one day it’s like whoa, like that. You know what I mean. 

Dr Sandeep: 23:06 

Very, very true. So I’ve been in pub 24 about eight years and only in the last year and a half to two years have I started to like, feel that, like before, that properties one of those things that really eats your money up. Your asset rich but you’re very cash poor because everything costs a lot of money and you’re talking big numbers of property. So for the last, for the first six years, i was always like I didn’t have much money. The car was driving. A lot of people used to say to me like, but you’re a dentist, you got property, like get yourself a nice car, and I was like, yeah, i just not at that stage, i don’t feel like I deserve it just yet. Yeah, in actual facts, i used to have a 325 BMW and the bumper was hanging off and actually actually had it. I taped it back on. It was hanging on by tape and I had that car for about nine years. And then when I, when I started feeling the compound interest, then I was like you know what I’ve done? it now I’m quite nice, i upgraded yeah, you deserve this. 

Dr James: 24:11 

Well, here’s the thing, though. Like the thing is right, you use that. You use that term asset rich and cash per. Right, it’s also possible to be cash rich and asset per. Do you know what I mean? which, which is probably where. Which would you? which would you prefer the asset rich, cash per, all day long? at least you go in places, right, you can listen 100% but a lot of people don’t realize that right well, the thing is, i mean, we’re we’re human beings, right, we’re social creatures, right, and part of part of operating in a social being, a social creature, part of operating in a social sphere, is you want status, right? most people do, right to a degree. So you can’t consciously or subconsciously, right, they want to feel good about themselves, they want to project a certain energy, right? so what are what are the status symbols in society nowadays? a nice car, nice clothes, blah, blah, blah. All of that stuff, right? so here’s the thing like, you can have all this cash flow coming in, however much is a dentist, right. But you can also equally be spending all of that cash flow and just flipping, looking good, and you’ll look good and people will think you’re wealthy, right. And even even like you and I, who are familiar with these concepts, i bet we still look when we see you know, a decent car, or we still look whenever we see someone in a nice suit, right, because quite often right, it’s motivation, though it’s motivation. Yeah, it’s what I mean there’s, there’s, it’s just, it’s on a subconscious level, right, well, we’re just like, oh well, they’re obviously affluent, right, and then we probably don’t even think twice to think about okay, but what is the actual cash flow look like? and you know if you walk the street, right, there’s so many people who are, you know, dressed really well and look really good, and I’m just there thinking to myself are all these people like, really, really, really wealthy, or are they just spending lots of their money on looking good? and I think it’s probably more likely the second one. Now, the only issue with the second one is that ultimately, in the long term, if you don’t get out of that space, then what it can mean is that you don’t have a pot of assets that you can live off whenever you decide to do less dentistry or whenever you’re unable to work anymore, right. So it’s like you look good for the first half, but then things don’t always pan out so well for the second half of your life, right? whereas if there’s just some at least control over your spending, you know, at some points, and you’re at least allocating some of it towards your asset pot, or not even like, not even necessarily asset pots, maybe even just investing in courses and things that will build your ability to generate more cash flow, then if that doesn’t happen, then you’ll always be stuck in that vortex, whereas you can, where you earn 100,000 a year, but you’re also spending 100,000 a year whenever everything’s tallyed up. But anyway, so no 100%. It’s about being conscious of that yeah, it’s really interesting point. 

Dr Sandeep: 26:54 

I don’t know. I think I believe social media has a big part to play in there’s a lot more prevalent than it used to be. Like, if you’re going Instagram, everyone’s like you can’t find on Bells, rolexes, all this kind of stuff, and the reality is that they’re just spending money looking rich rather than actually becoming rich. And I find with the younger generation it’s a lot more prevalent. But it’s really sad because actually I read a statistic actually that you’ve got a cohort of individuals now that are actually getting into debt to look rich. So not even spending the money they have, they’re getting in perpetual debt to kind of like show this lifestyle that they’ve got, which is all actually fake because they haven’t got the income to sustain it long term, which is really messed up because later down in life you’re going to be screwed right. Yeah man. 

Dr James: 27:51 

I mean, see, here’s the thing, right, it’s like you can. You can get all this money coming in right. And actually, really, if you just reinvent like here’s, here’s most people’s mindset. Most people’s mindset is think twice before investing. Think once before spending, right, yeah, okay, right, because it feels good to spend money, right, whereas in reality, if you think about it, why is it not think once before investing? think twice before spending, right, if you think about it? right, at least the spending, if you spend money. The definition spend in money is that it’s never going to make its way back to right, or or at least, if you resell whatever it is that you’ve purchased, right, it’s going to go down in value most of the time. Right, because it’s not an investment. It’s something that you spent money on. Right? yeah, at least within an investment, there’s a chance that it’s going to come back to you, even if the investment doesn’t pan out. Well, yeah, but yeah, so many people are so frugal. The second you hear they hear the word investment, like, oh, it could be risky, right? you know what? I tell you what’s even more risky going out and just blow on a load of money on clothes and things. Right, yeah, because there’s a 100% chance you’re not going to see a return on that yeah, definitely, yeah, 100%. 

Dr Sandeep: 28:58 

Like you know, i was saying about that 32 bedroom HMO. So until I bought my new car for about four or five years there were a lot tenants in that place that actually actually had a better car than me and my business partner and we own the place. Ah well, there you go right, so it’s like and they’re renting a room, not even a flat, like it just goes to show like what the mindset financially. Some people are right there. 

Dr James: 29:24 

Um, it’s just yeah, yeah, we’re all susceptible to it. It actually takes a lot of strength to not fall into that trap, because it’s very tempting. It’s very tempting, but anyway, we digress. Let’s move back to property. So yourself, obviously, you bought all these properties and you’ve learned all these flipping pearls of wisdom and many lessons over the year. What would you say the best lessons are for anybody who’s listening to this podcast? what were the biggest flipping epiphany moments? oh, um, sorry, that’s a little very deep. 

Dr Sandeep: 29:58 

I’m really sorry because I just watched a movie movies of all time, yeah okay, that’s a toughie, that’s a toughie. 

Dr James: 30:06 

Maybe if we just do, hmm, maybe if we just pick three, that would be in your top 10. How about that? in no particular order better question okay, i’ll tell you. 

Dr Sandeep: 30:15 

The top one actually is persistence. You’ve got to be persistent. Like it’s very easy to go into something and, if it doesn’t pan out the way you want it to, to just give up. Or even if it goes well for one or two and then it doesn’t work. It’s very easy to be like oh you know what, i got burnt with that, i don’t want to touch it. But you’ve got to be persistent And if you’re persistent, you’re going to get better at it. You will make mistakes. Everyone does. No one is perfect And there’s that phrase right, if you learn from it, it’s not a mistake. It’s a lesson which I think is really important. But yeah, persistence, i would say definitely Cool. 

Dr James: 30:56 

And then was there, was there two more there as well in the, in the, in the three. 

Dr Sandeep: 31:01 

Yeah, Okay, in poverty leverage Yeah, I know a lot of people’s mindset is I want to borrow as little money as possible and I want to pay it off. I actually prefer to leverage and it’s helped me grow a lot quicker that way as well. So like, for example, like there are some people out there that will go and buy a house for 100 grand cash. I’ve never understood that, because you can go to a bank and borrow money. If you buy one house for 100 grand over 10 years, say, doubles, you may to do grand appreciation. If you put down 30 deposits, 30% deposits, and you buy free houses for the same amount of money you’ve got you’ll get. You’ll get three houses which will double, which is the underground. So leverage is very, very powerful as long as it’s used wisely. 

Dr James: 31:53 

Love that And I love that little caveat at the end It’s very important caveat, because otherwise you’ll be in trouble. Otherwise it’s like payday loans and stuff for houses, isn’t it? So it’s almost like the little disclaimer we get in there. 

Dr Sandeep: 32:06 

But you’re right. 

Dr James: 32:07 

It has a place and lots of people avoid it like the plague, but it’s very powerful when you scratch. Yeah, yeah. 

Dr Sandeep: 32:13 

And one thing you probably just want a lot of people like to do capital repayment, So they like to pay the property down. I know my, my mom and dad are very much they’re kind of drill that into me But after I read Rich Dad, Poor Dad, my mindset completely changed And I looked at things from a kind of that was actually the book that changed my life. That was because my parents were poor dad And that’s the way I was raised. 

Dr James: 32:42 

You know what It’s it’s. it’s so interesting that you said that, because it’s actually over there on the bookshelf behind me What is it. What is? what is when you read that? 

Dr Sandeep: 32:51 

book. I think I was in VT, Oh very cool. 

Dr James: 32:56 

You know what? Rich Dad, poor Dad is like one of the only books on wealth that I’ve actually never got run to completing. And it’s only because I feel like I’ve spent with so much time with people who’ve read it that I feel that by osmosis I practically have, which is such a terrible mindset. Okay, because I’m sure there’s loads of that. That’s like I can even hear myself saying that and that’s like slightly arrogant. So I probably just need to just go and read it, because I bet there’s loads of stuff in there that I haven’t heard people say. But if I had to pick one book I’m just looking over here on my bookshelf a really good book on wealth. I mean, i always say I always say How to Own the World by Andrew Craig, which I really really, really like. Okay, but I’ll tell you what’s a good book. Actually, i’ll tell you what’s a really good book that’s no one’s ever heard of, because I feel like Andrew’s book everybody’s heard of it. But if anybody wants a really good book on the limitations of what sometimes financial advisors, some financial advisors advise, of which there are quite a few sometimes The limitations I mean then what I would suggest is reading this book which is called How Much Money Do I Need to Retire, by Todd Treseter, and it’s it’s all about poking holes in traditional financial logic And whenever you read this you kind of there’s always a pinch of salt that you can’t, you can’t. It’s like when your eyes are open, you can’t close them again, And there’s always. You always take that information with a little bit of pinch of salt from that point forwards, because he basically points out that the whole system relies on cash flow planning, which is plotting over what period of time you’re expected to have a certain level of income if your assets grow at a certain rate and if inflation is this rate, and blah, blah, blah and all this stuff, and it basically makes the point that you’re trying to plan the unplanable, because there’s so many variables there that just can’t possibly be accounted for. So when you poke lots of holes in that system that everybody relies on, or every financial advisor relies on, when you poke lots of holes in it, then what it means is you just point out how it really isn’t something that we can 100% put our faith in, even though it’s made out. It’s made out like we can do And you’re actually better off having some non traditional assets, if you want to use that terminology, in your portfolio the assets of the ask a financial advisor stocks and bonds, non traditional assets, businesses, property, crypto. Using that definition, i get that they’ve been around for me. 

Dr Sandeep: 35:31 

I lost way too many in crypto. 

Dr James: 35:33 


Dr Sandeep: 35:34 

Yeah, maybe I’ll just roll back to that last one, that’s not what. 

Dr James: 35:39 

That’s not the energy we want to project. 

Dr Sandeep: 35:42 

Let’s, let’s, let’s make a pattern. I’m going to read that book and you’re going to finish with support. 

Dr James: 35:49 

Yeah, let’s shake on it, let’s make ourselves accountable right here. You can see we’re shaking right now. We’re shaking on this soon Awesome stuff. Jesse, listen, it’s been a flip and pleasure to have you along today. Yeah, I wanted to ask just before you go what does life look like for you right here right now, having been someone who’s invested in all these properties, growing your portfolio to what it is? How many days a week are you still in dentistry? 

Dr Sandeep: 36:14 

Okay. So, um, yeah, life is good right now. So I’m working three days a week at the moment, But later this year I’ll be moving to two days a week. Oh, i, yeah, so I’ll work Monday, tuesday, wednesday and then I’m going to change that to Wednesday and Thursday. So I have those days, but I’m at a stage now where I don’t need to work. 

Dr James: 36:39 

Yeah, it’s optional, exactly Right, And you can choose not to. 

Dr Sandeep: 36:43 

When you get to the stage where you don’t have to work, funnily enough, dentistry becomes a bit more enjoyable. I do not rely on it. It’s strange how it works, but it becomes more enjoyable. I’m quite particular now. Stuff I don’t like to do, i just won’t do. Stuff I like to do, i do, and that kind of freedom in itself brings a lot of. It makes you happy, right? You enjoy your days more. Yeah, so working three days a week, walking down to two. Bought a new house last year pretty much my dream house. Got my sports car gone holiday about eight, nine times a year. So it’s it’s. It’s taken a while to get well, one, two, but I’m at a good place now So I’m happy bro, life sounds like it’s very good. 

Dr James: 37:31 

And here’s the key thing to remember you know you’re 36, you know you’re you’re living the lifestyle that lots people spend their whole life trying to obtain. Yeah, which is flipping awesome. 36, relatively young, you know, which is really cool. And you know what? if you ask me personally, okay, so There’s a time and a place for putting your money money in a nicer and a sip, and that’s great. Okay, definitely, everybody should siphon some of their wealth into stocks and bonds, traditional assets, okay. But think about it like this right, if everybody’s using that method and Everybody is retiring around 55. Maybe, you know if they’re lucky and usually around 60, okay, if you want that outcome and you’re happy to keep doing five days a week for all that time, that’s cool, then use those methods right. But the cool thing to understand is that actually they’re not the only ways to be financially free. Right, and Outside of those traditional assets like stocks and bonds, like your financial advisor would recommend, there’s this whole other dimension Which has the possibility of giving you that level of freedom Way sooner in life, just like flipping jassy who sat here right in front of us, and one of those ways is property. Another way is business. Just what I tell people all the time. You make a business, create the thing, figure out how it works. Then take yourself out of it. You can have an asset that runs itself when you’re flipping mid-20s. Obviously, obviously, there has to be a little bit of luck in there along the way, but biggest reframe for people that I feel that holds a lot of people back Is that they’re waiting for the right idea to hit them, whereas if they just got themselves out there and did stuff, they’d find that. They find that idea or they’d certainly gain lots of Skills and experience, which would allow them to have the wisdom that they need to be able to detect opportunities to a much higher level. It’s both yeah, shit 100%. 

Dr Sandeep: 39:27 

You know what you said about look as well. You create your own look Definitely. Create your own look definitely. But yeah, and then also I think it’s worthwhile. I asked you a question You want about would you rather have a lot of cash or would you rather have assets? And we both said assets, right, where’s? a lot of people say cash, but here’s the thing with cash inflation is eating up at your cash like nothing. When you’re earning cash, other ink, paying ridiculous amounts of tax if you got assets, you can sit on a beach, drinking whatever you like and you are becoming wealthy and wealthier And, like I know, it’s just just something that I didn’t understand until I read books like which dad, poor dad. And then it made complete, in a sense, like you want to get assets. That’s how you’re gonna create wealth. 

Dr James: 40:15 

Bro. So two things. The first thing is to Refer back to what I was saying at the start, which is that obviously you know, whenever we’re Undertaken this process where we’re beginning to learn about how money works and etc. Right, if you want that outcome where you want to keep working until you’re 65, right, then use the traditional methods. Right. And if maybe you do want that maybe 55, 65, 60, whatever, maybe that is what you want, maybe you like dentistry and maybe you love it. Maybe, if you want it, but if you want to do a little less it’s about being open and receptive to these other methods be with me. Yeah, that’s the first thing. And then the second thing I wanted to say was the energy that it takes. You know the way you were talking about you kind of said this, in other words, but you were talking about that hustler energy almost to just to get the property portfolio off the ground. And for me, whenever you start a portfolio property portfolio, we start a business the energy that gets you from zero to ten as in it gets you off the ground is the hustler. Do your energy Right? Yeah, but then I think what I used to think at the very start was that that was the energy That would also get me from ten to one hundred, right? Actually, it’s about doing less, right? Yeah, it’s about ideas and opportunities at that point. Right. And you know, when you still have that zero to ten energy, you actually have to turn off the zero to ten hustler energy to get from ten to one hundred. Right, and how that actually looks is taking some time out and doing fun stuff so that you can think you actually Not only can you do it, you actually get further by doing it. Whenever you bust through that zero to ten that we were talking about just now, How cool is that? Right? so you know we’ve just done right. We’ve just incentivized going from zero to ten, getting to the point Where you have some sort of residual income from a collection of assets that you have. Right, and also reminding everybody that that that probably lies outside of your ices and sips, because those are growth assets. You have to leave those. You have to leave those untouched and allow them to grow. You don’t want to be siphoning passive income, often residual income. The only real way to do that property and business, in my opinion, may be crypto as well. For the real officials in the audience. 

Dr Sandeep: 42:26 

Yeah, i think also ices and things like that you got. You also got to remember that you’re Putting your money with a hedge fund manager and no one cares about your money the way you care about your money, whereas when you pop to yourself, you do businesses yourself, you got control of your money and you’re gonna care a lot more, so you’re gonna make it go further. But, yeah, i like what you said about your zero to ten and then ten to a hundred. That’s the end of where you can leverage, so you can leverage your money. But then you’re also in that aspect you’re leveraging your time. So when I was building my portfolio, what I started to do is I started to realize, okay, we’re expanding, now I need to acquire more property, so I need to get out there, find more deals, and you to get out there and find investors. So that’s when I bought in a project managers to deal with the refurb, so I’m putting property managers to deal with the tenants And yeah, i can complete a guru. And I think going on like what works for me as well Is I like to go on a lot of holidays and what I find is when I go on holidays, you know, when you’re like popping bodies and I be for Vegas or spantro, pay You. You tend to network. You tend to see very, very wealthy individuals, like I remember in Santa paid as a play place called our press, and we were there and We were popping bottles and the guy next to us He was like I think he was like 28 and he’s worth like a hundred million. He didn’t. He did some watch company in Australia and we’re just chatting to him and everything. And then when I met him I came back I was like dude, i gotta get on it. Man, that motivation and and when you away, i tend to find that I’m always like this is why it works so hard. So when I go back, i’m rejuvenated and I’m ready to hustle, bustle, ready to go again. So, yeah, taking time out of the business, i think is very, very, very important. 

Dr James: 44:09 

I tried to do that. You know what I love. I love that you resonate with that, because I can’t remember I think possibly two separate people gave me that concept in slightly different ways And then I constructed it together mentally in the zero to ten, ten to one hundred analogy. Another way that you can say that is zero to ten is about hustle and hard work, right, yeah, and one hundred is about ideas. Yeah, yeah, yeah, which is why and it plays into the exact analogy that are the exact story that you just told, which was how you went to where was it? Santope, abitha, yeah, santope. And you saw this other dude right, and I bet that number one. It made you realize, whoa, this is possible that we can all offer a game because we’re only doing well Relative to someone else, someone or something else, right, and suddenly, of this, if that someone else is shifted upwards, we’re like whoa, we need a boost. Right, it puts. It gives us the puts the wind in our sails, gives us a kick up the backside right. Plus, as well as that, i bet you, in that conversation, he probably gave you some really good ideas that you could implement into your own business as well, like. He probably said something along the lines of hey, if you do this thing like this, then it works really well. Or maybe you did, or maybe you didn’t. Even just the flipping Mindset boost on its own is enough. 

Dr Sandeep: 45:25 

He might have always just very intoxicated at the time. 

Dr James: 45:30 

Maybe it went in here somewhere in the subcontract Subconsciously. Yeah, Awesome man. 

Dr Sandeep: 45:35 

This is Jassy I. Cheers.