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Dentists Who Invest

Podcast Episode

Full Transcript

Dr James: 

Welcome back one and all to a Dentsy Invest podcast. I have my good friend Saddops at me. Dr Jamil Turoftar, we are here today to talk about knowing your numbers, because no one bothers to do this stuff, except it’s extremely important, right, jamil?

Dr Jamil: 

Yeah, the known numbers is very, very, very important. James, I can’t believe it. This is podcast number four.

Dr James: 

Four, I believe yeah.

Dr Jamil: 

Yeah, that’s good. We make good progress. We’re doing all right. We’re doing all right, aren’t?

Dr James: 

we? When was the first one? Like six months ago, maybe. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dr Jamil: 

Blessings always reaching out to each other. Let’s do another podcast. I really do enjoy them. I really enjoy them.

Dr James: 

Bothering you to do another one right. Bothering you. Sorry about that, but it’s because there’s something valuable. You were telling me just off camera that there’s been a lot of people reaching out to you because of the previous podcast, which is cool.

Dr Jamil: 

Yeah, tons of people. Yeah, forever great for books. Obviously, James, you’ve opened up I’ve told you this several times that you’ve opened up a lot of opportunities that I probably wouldn’t have had if it wasn’t for you. So I will forever be grateful. And FYI, the same page, there’s no paid sponsorship here.

Dr James: 

That’s cool, man. I’m really happy for you, you know. But it’s such an interesting thing because I’m a big believer in leverage Leverage being that you get the max output for every unit of input in your life, and one form of leverage is media. So whenever people listen to something, whenever you have a message that is worth sharing, it’s like having a conversation with, instead of having a conversation with, one person. It’s like having a conversation with hundreds of people, three, four, five hundred people all at once, and it’s just a math thing that opportunities are going to come about, because, if you think about it, when you have a conversation with someone, that usually generates opportunities, or at least it can do anyway. So if you multiply that by many hundreds, well then it’s only natural that there’s going to be many more opportunities coming out, which is basically what happened and is what you’ve been benefiting from, which is really cool, my friends, I’m happy for you and they wouldn’t have reached out. They wouldn’t have reached out unless they saw unbelievable value in math, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, I love what you’re having, mate, but you’re humble and modest, which is cool, but anyway, we’re here today to talk about numbers, knowing your numbers, and why it is so important, of course, doing the boring stuff, because the boring stuff is the stuff that makes you more money and makes you profitable. Not that that’s the only metric by which we measure success, but if it’s going to be something that helps us in some way, then we should be able to talk about it, right.

Dr Jamil: 

Yeah.

Dr James: 

I agree, Cool, so knowing your numbers, so what would you say? So here’s the thing. Obviously your principal has got a few practices under your belt. Was there any epiphany moments where you realized that actually, whoa okay, I was neglecting these, and then I now realize how important it is to understand this stuff? Or if you were someone who always did it from the get go, I’m curious to know.

Dr Jamil: 

So I like numbers anyway. Okay, I’m a huge fan of numbers. I think we did a live show me and you once where I was sharing my screen and you saw that I just read accounts when I’m bored. Do you remember that I do?

Dr James: 

I remember you saying it was something even prior to dentistry. You just like to look at balance sheets, didn’t you? Yeah?

Dr Jamil: 

So what happened? So my epiphany moment was I realized how important numbers was on my first practice. I was about 25 years old when I bought my first practice. What happened was that I bought a practice based on the seller’s numbers and now in dentury is very rare People will audit numbers or will have an audited account. So I personally believe the person that I bought it off may be fabricated. The numbers, okay. So I don’t think they were doing as much profit as they did demonstrate on their accounts. Okay, what can I do? I was already in it. I made do forever. I got to do so I said to myself. I said I’ll never, ever let this happen again. So then I really, I really drill into numbers. I do like reading. I know all my competitors accounts. I’ve looked at them regularly. I think I look at them more than they look at them and they just to know. With the company’s accounts it depends what sort of accounts it is, but you can really gather a lot of information about how a practice is doing compared to you. But that’s all nitty gritty stuff. You can find a YouTube video on how to read company’s house accounts.

Dr James: 

But you know what, though? Nitty gritty stuff it might be and it might be really simple to you, but I actually think there’s great value in that. So maybe if you could cover what you’re looking for from a high level, what are the first things that you look for whenever you’re looking at some balance sheets or some?

Dr Jamil: 

accounts. The first thing I look at believe it or not is long term loans. Okay, so they’re long term creditors. They call them, don’t they Debtors? Whatever they call them long term Because that tells me. That tells me how much, how much loans they have outstanding on their company, usually Okay. So if a practice seems like they’re doing really well let’s say I don’t know forest avenue dental, down the road they look like they’re doing amazing. You look at the company accounts and they got £1.5 million in debt owed over 15 years. Theoretically, you realise they’re actually not doing that well because they’re so under the sea. So there’s somebody that explained this to me is that when you’re in debt with a practice, you’re under water and then as you do, as you pay off the loan, you become, your head becomes over the water. So a lot of these practices might you might look really successful to you, but they might have huge debts on their head. So that’s the first thing I look at. Another thing is I look at short term creditors. Now, this is a combination of things. This might be like lab fees that you’re due, but also entails corporation tax into it, so you could tell how profitable a company is from that as well. Another thing I look at is how much they fix. The net asset goes up by a lot dental practices is very difficult to increase your assets without having hard cash. So if a practice goes from, let’s say, having 200,000 per net asset one year to 400,000 per net asset the next year, it means that they probably had a profitability of about 200,000. Dentists don’t take money out as a salary is very rare within dentistry. They take out as dividends. So that gives you a really good indication. So that’s what I look at mainly Now. How would you find out a page one of your competitors companies? Because you just scroll down to the bottom of the page and you just look for the limited company. If they are limited company, some people really hide it, quite the way to hide it. So you find it in the terms of condition or the privacy policy. So that’s where you find it. But yeah, you find out a lot about that Depending on structures of companies. A lot of practices have a company that they operate in and then they’ve got holding companies. That actually follows the whole money through and without going into to nitty gritty, but you can look at confirmation statements and you can work your way up and you can find out true beneficiaries of a company and how much their own holding companies are making from the transaction. But that’s really nitty gritty. I think before anyone looks at anyone else’s company, I think they should always analyze their own, james. So if you look at a company counselor, a practice counselor, whatever you’ll see like, for example, cost of materials like birds, cotton, wool, roll, anesthetic maybe accounts for about eight to 9%. A good practice when really efficiently we’ll get about 7% of the turnover. A lot of people will look at that figure and say that’s pretty low. I’m pretty happy with that, but nobody ever goes to the level where actually, can I bring that down slightly? Can I try and have a saving of 100 pound a week? So I do really delve down into my numbers, into all the invoices, and I really do try and run my company as lean as possible. So the way I see it, 40 pound is better in my pocket than some of these directors that own these massive corporations in the pocket, because at the end of the day I’m paying for their Ferrari and I’d rather not pay for the Ferrari if I could. But yeah, that’s what it’s about. Another thing I do another thing with numbers is that? So I prepare all my whole companies and I get company account and I give it to my account so I know my company inside out. Another problem I face with dentists I feel like if the HMRC do ever come after you, they come after you, not their accountant. So it’s really important, you know. So there’ll be things that I say no, I’m putting this as an expense, I’m not doing this. Hmrc did come and audit my company’s account. I could actually justify each expense to them. So I think from that standpoint it’s really, really important knowing your numbers.

Dr James: 

Absolutely, absolutely. 110%. What would you say? The most common things that dentists do wrong or whenever it comes to analyzing their numbers?

Dr Jamil: 

So the first year on my accounts, I didn’t analyze my numbers. The second year I found like, for example, my telecoms provider, I had agreed to rape for them for three years and they had actually increased it by 45%. And I called them and I said what on earth’s going on? Okay, and then they were like I’m really sorry, blah, blah, blah. I said, well, at least back to it. They won’t back to it, they don’t care. Okay, they were like, well, you’re tough, like you should have known. And I said I’m not gonna argue with them in court and things like that, but it’s being overcharged. But because there’s so much money coming in and out of our companies, most practices let’s say, even if you turn over 300,000 pounds, that’s 1,200 pounds a day coming in and out of your account it’s still a sizable amount, I think that. So that’s why I don’t think we don’t really analyze our accounts ourselves and everyone probably will say, well, I don’t have the time, blah, blah, blah I hear it all the time to me to analyze probably one point. I can analyze 1.8 million pounds with a transaction in incoming outgoing and it’ll take me about three evenings, I would say. And then if you work out my hourly and the amount of money I save. I save a lot more money by analyzing my own company compared to where I can grow. Now, if you’re a high-flying implant dentist and you’re doing 1.3 million pounds in implant work, yeah, maybe it’s not worth your while because the profitability in implants are so high. Your hourly is so higher than somebody like myself that just does general dentistry.

Dr James: 

So you would say the biggest mistake they make is not doing it in the first place because it’s as you’ve just articulated it it’s so worthwhile right.

Dr Jamil: 

Massively worthwhile and yeah so, yeah, I agree, and you become really quick at it. So the first one took me three days to produce. Now I produce them quarterly and I sit there from two to about six and I’ll just get it all done for every quarter.

Dr James: 

Where did you pick up this skill, Ben? Is it self-taught?

Dr Jamil: 

Yeah, I just learned it because I just, I don’t know, I think I have a bit of a trust issue. No, I didn’t have a bad ex. No, I think I’ve got a bit of trust issues where I just don’t like putting all my eggs in one basket and somebody grabbing me and saying, no, you can’t leave me, because I know your company inside out and a lot of us use A-accountant, so it’s not a massive corporation. You have to think what happens if your accountant falls ill and he can’t really remember what happened. You don’t really know what happened, but so, yeah, it’s really important, in my opinion, that you know your numbers, because people will come after you, not your accountant.

Dr James: 

So was there any resources that helped you in that process? Was it YouTube, books?

Dr Jamil: 

I believe it’s common sense. Okay, okay, clearly why. Okay, if you look at a company any company you’ve got in-goings, yeah, and out-goings. Out-goings are split into about six categories Associate costs you have materials, marketing, a gas, electricity, rent. So I split it into about 10 categories and then you just input into them categories.

Dr James: 

Oh okay, that’s pretty useful actually.

Dr Jamil: 

Yeah, it’s really really easy. And if you actually ask your accountant if you see a full account from last year not the one that gets published on companies’ house, which most people get abbreviated accounts published on companies’ house you’ll actually see the columns your accountant divides it into. So you could just base them columns and then you can literally. There’s a trick way of doing it on Excel. It’s quite easy to. I think it’s. I will find it and I’ll let you know and you can maybe put it at the end, but you could just literally select the category you want and Excel will automatically move it onto that column. So really really easy to do.

Dr James: 

Boom, there we are.

Dr Jamil: 

Another thing is I get is that I get analysis. I’m getting live analysis day to day. I’m not relying on somebody that’s not a dentist, doesn’t have a clue about dentistry. Analyzing my accounts I know my own accounts. I know that I’m spending money on marketing but my actual revenue’s not going up, so something’s wrong. Why has my consumables gone up next year? And when I come to sell James, I know what is a reoccurring expense and what’s not. Okay, so straight away, I know I can sell my practice for a lot more than something that doesn’t know the difference between reoccurring and non-reoccurring. And if I give you guys a quick example, some of you guys might place implants. Okay, an implant motor, let’s say you put it as a direct expense, costs about six grand, five grand. So that five grand probably if you did do it, whichever way you do it, but it could be taken from your cost of sales, okay, that gets taken straight off your profit. So you make five grand less profit. If you’re getting, if you’re selling your practice seven times the betale, while you’re not knowing that information, you’re losing out on 35%, 35 grand in potential uptake. Your practice would have been worth 35 grand more just because you.

Dr James: 

Oh yeah, because it’s like a, not not a one time expense, right. But it’s not something that’s consistently coming out right. Oh, that’s flipping. It’s obvious, I suppose, when you say it out loud. But there you go.

Dr Jamil: 

So I recently got my practice revalued by the by, actually, these two chaps lovely chaps and I literally gave them. I said look guys, this is what’s reoccurring, this is not reoccurring. Blah, blah, blah. You can see I’ve labeled it out completely well. So then, when they value my practice, it was valued a lot more because they were like oh yeah, you’ve actually broken up everything. So if you ever wanted to sell, you’ll get a lot more money if you know your company inside out and you’ll know your company better than your accountant will know your company.

Dr James: 

There we go. That’s flipping genius. It’s kind of obvious, isn’t it really, when you think about it.

Dr Jamil: 

Yeah. So if you like, use DD. Let’s say you use DD to buy all your consumables. Unless you use made a one off expense to DD to buy an implant motor, your account is not going to know the difference between this five grand invoice and the last 10 grand invoice. To him it’s all the same. It’s just like a consumer. He doesn’t know unless and how many people are sitting there saying no, actually this is not recurring, this is recurring. But yeah, I separate everything, so I know.

Dr James: 

Perfect Makes sense EBITDA earnings before interest taxation, amortization, debt and amortization.

Dr Jamil: 

Amortization crap. If I’m really being honest.

Dr James: 

Why not Really? You’re not a believer in EBITDA?

Dr Jamil: 

Yeah, ebitda, I don’t know it works, of course it works. It just helps. It puts a finger out, doesn’t it, and works out which way the wind’s going. I think a practice is worth what it’s worth. I think a practice is worth what somebody’s willing to pay. You could think your practice is worth EBITDA, but where there really is, I don’t know.

Dr James: 

Well, this is it. It’s just what someone’s going to pay for. It isn’t?

Dr Jamil: 

it yeah.

Dr James: 

It’s like a benchmark. It’s something to navigate from, isn’t it? This is what it serves as, which is cool.

Dr Jamil: 

Okay, great stuff.

Dr James: 

Cool, cool, cool, cool, cool. And through all your analyzing of all your numbers. This is what I’m really interested to ask you. Right, Because in the answer to this question, there’s going to be some real wisdom contained. The reason why there’s going to be some real wisdom contained in this is because you’ll have undoubtedly spent a lot of time pouring over your numbers to obtain this data. However, when we help somebody by sharing this information, it’s going to speed up that journey a lot for them. So what is the question? The question is this through pouring through all of your numbers as much as you have, because obviously that’s something that you’re passionate about, which is really really, really cool what would you say the biggest unlocks were in terms of profitability? What were the biggest things that you tweaked, that you thought to yourself Hmm, okay, If I change this, if I adjust this, I’m going to make a lot more money, or I’m going to save a lot of money. What were the biggest things that you find?

Dr Jamil: 

So I must analyze my own accounts. I think my profitability went up by about probably about 65 to 75,000. Wow, so big.

Dr James: 

So this is not like the third.

Dr Jamil: 

So like, for example, straight away off the bat of suppliers, I think I must have saved maybe 12 to 13,000 pound, like that telecoms thing. I saved two grand from that year. Gone, saved Another thing. What else did I do? There was loads of stuff I analyzed. Also, I cut down on marketing. I knew what marketing was working and what wasn’t working as well. There you go. Yeah, so I spent. I did a huge marketing campaign of leaflets. I don’t know if I told you guys about it. I spent about seven grand on leaflets. I probably wouldn’t do that again, fyi. But that is another big thing. You just have control over your company. That’s the key. And unlike any other people, I don’t take deposits in my company. So although we are our company, the company is very cash rich. We don’t like to take a deposit, so we’re not. We don’t have loads of patients money held in our company’s account. Our account is what we turn over and what we hold in that day.

Dr James: 

Got you, so those were the biggest revelations, yeah.

Dr Jamil: 

So whenever somebody does do it, you’ll see it yourself, you’ll see it yourself. People are like, actually, do I need this, do I need that? So yeah, I find a lot of things that you can’t. The key thing is the number one rule is that you can’t lose sleep over it. Okay, it’s just about learning, adapting. There’s no point sitting there refreshing your bank account every day. It’s just about making big enough differences where it will make a substantial difference. But because then you’ve got to work out your cost per hour that you’re analyzing this. If it’s getting down to the hundreds of pounds, it’s not worth your time.

Dr James: 

Was a good margin for an associate led dental practice in your view?

Dr Jamil: 

I think you should aim for 30%. I do not know how you get 30%.

Dr James: 

I hope people saying 15 is good?

Dr Jamil: 

No, I think you can get 30. With the correct business model, you can get 30.

Dr James: 

Really, and what allows someone to go from 15 to 30 in your view?

Dr Jamil: 

Being lean. So being lean in the fact that, controlling all your costs, please consider buying a lab. You’ll save a huge chunk just by buying a lab. Control all costs buying a lab Marketing okay, but marketing in the correct fashion, not marketing fit and baseline and implants, because you’re not going to be able to compete with some of the your cost per acquisition. Yeah, you might turn over a lot more money, it’s just not worth it by the time you pay your marketing expense. Advertise for general dentistry. I’m a strong believer in small NHS contracts. I don’t want big NHS contracts. So I think that makes a massive, massive difference, because then you’re not trying to meet an NHS target, you just have an NHS target and then you do. You do mainly private. Another thing is my uptake in treatment plans. But all my sites are massive, really high. It’s because we offer in-house financing. I know I spoke about this loads of time for you. We offer in-house financing. That massively increases our uptake and revenue. And I’ll tell you why. Simply, I pay my therapist per hour. I would rather somebody pay me by payment plan rather than pay me pay as you go, pay as you go because, let’s say, I book an hour, they can do three fillings instead of a patient saying I only want one, so straight away, you’re three times more profitable at per hour. Your costs are your costs, your staffing costs, your therapist costs. Materials are negligible, you can’t really count it. Your staffing is negligible. So, yeah, your fixed costs stay fixed. Yeah, I think you can run a 30% with a therapist.

Dr James: 

That’s cool. Well, it’s certainly exciting to hear you say that because, from what I’ve seen, what I’ve read, 15 is something to be proud of for most people. From what I gather, 30% is doable, interesting.

Dr Jamil: 

What about principal lead? Principal lead, I don’t know you’re talking so principal. It depends how much you’re turning over. Now, if you’re turning over 1.5 to, let’s say, 2 million, you would be kind of happy with about 40 to 45. 40, I would say you’ll be closer to 40. It’s not going to increase massively because you’re just saving the associates half. If that makes sense, yeah, yeah.

Dr James: 

Well, I guess. Yeah, there’s a lot of variables in there. It depends on how many days in the clinic as well.

Dr Jamil: 

If you want to make the most amount of money in dentistry, go buy a two small surgery practice. Get a therapist in one room, a dentist in one room, Just do private general dentistry and you’ll make. You could turn over maybe 800,000 with two surgeries, probably a bit less than that, probably about 700,000 with no invasive line, no composite bonding. You could do turn that out quite quickly every day. You will be making a lot of money. Very low risk, high reward. You’re a big yeah, but one thing you want to do, one thing I want to do, is I want to remove myself. I’m not going to remove myself from the equation. They say like different sorts of income, like your hand shouldn’t always be in the business. While something happens to me one day at least I still have a company that still could fund my lifestyle, could fund me. Businesses are the best assets.

Dr James: 

Yeah, businesses are the best assets. The reason is that they give you cash flow, properly gives you cash flow, but not nearly as much as a good business. Obviously, you have to put yourself through starting the business.

Dr Jamil: 

Yeah, but James, I don’t know. I’m not a believer in buy-to-let. I blindly hate it. I hate it because I find it boring the issue I have with buy-to-let. So what are they aiming for? 8% now at the moment.

Dr James: 

Well, at the moment I mean If that, If that 8% be really good at the minute. But yeah, typically 8-ish.

Dr Jamil: 

Yeah, it just doesn’t make sense to me. Why would you want to put that Like how surprised are Do they increase by that much? Yeah, they might do, it’s just I don’t know. It’s too slow for me, way too slow.

Dr James: 

The thing is it’s having those what people To maintain your yield. You have to have that conversation every once in a while with the tenants. So you’re going to put the rent up, which everybody hates doing me with me, and you’re right it is. I guess if you’re incredibly skilled at it it can be much more. But for someone who’s just dabbling in it then I guess like 68 is normal, and to me it’s very much the slow train to wealth, which is fine. It’s not that you have to think one way or the other, it’s just being conscious that there’s other possibilities. Business can be as proper as you like, but then you have to set up a business, which not everybody wants to do.

Dr Jamil: 

I agree, but no. So I’m really really just keen at analyzing my numbers. So when my quarter ends, james, I am so excited. So my quarter ends in 30th of September, my counter gets on the fifth, the fifth, five days after I’ll get my quarterly accounts Awesome. So, yeah, it’s just about. So now, like I believe, my company is really lean. And also another thing is, james, another thing people don’t think about. You don’t know if money’s going missing, you’ll know. You won’t have to wait years. You’ll print no pretty soon Because if you’re cash, cash in whatever doesn’t marry up, you’re soon no. But yeah, that’s why I believe in, yeah, numbers is a great thing. If anyone needs help analyzing numbers are more than happy. It’s my favorite thing to do.

Dr James: 

Cool man, thanks for that, thanks for that kind of offer. So there’s no, there’s no particular resource that you can say. Hey, dennis, who are listening? If you read this, it might be the thing that allows you to understand it fully, 100%. However, it’s gonna help you maybe 30, 40, 50% on that journey. Nothing you can think off.

Dr Jamil: 

So the reason? So I don’t know if you know, james, about the one fact about me I’ve never read a book. Okay, even through uni, the. The problem is, if you start reading a book, they’ll go into too much detail, you’ll be lost in the source. Okay, it’s like any other company, really simplify it. Okay, in going out, going and just split, split that are going into 10 categories and I am sure every single principle should be able to Do that pretty easily.

Dr James: 

What are those 10 categories?

Dr Jamil: 

because I think we said Tell you exactly. Yes, let’s go. Okay, let me load up my head.

Dr James: 

This is really valuable.

Dr Jamil: 

I was. You know, before you called, I was actually quickly reading from my account. I was like let me, so. My company, my account is split up like this. Okay, are we gonna write this down?

Dr James: 

Oh, no, no, well, it’s cool. Well, we’ll give everybody some time. He’s listening to grab a pen and paper pause it now.

Dr Jamil: 

Grab a pen and paper.

Dr James: 

He feels about, to a spouse his best wisdom of all time. Get ready for this.

Dr Jamil: 

So my one is really long, but we’ll do a really longer. You take an abbreviator, okay, so this is the maximum you should be able to. So advertising goes into a category, okay yeah, general expenses goes into one. General expenses will be things like buying a pen from Amazon. Okay, dental materials goes into one. So these are your dental consumables, composites, blah blah blah. Postage Okay. Waste collection Okay. So waste collection is like viola or whoever company. Use that yellow bin and stuff. A rent needs to go into one, gas and electricity needs to go into one. And then I’ve got business insurance, website costs, like hosting a stuff a Bank charges. So bank, as everyone knows, bank charges you to hold for them, to hold your money and make money from your money, and software, and so this is software of excellent. That’ll be any sort of software that you use, dental equipment and so these. So this is my non-recurring cost. So dental equipment, I know, is never going to be a reoccurring cost. Recruitment costs, any refunds you give a patient Okay, equipment repair, maintenance and, and I got accountant fees there. And then I’ve got. Then I split it into the next thing, which is staff cost cost. So this will be how much you get pages of director. How much you’re paying your dentist? How much are you paying your therapist, hygienist, pa? Why so PA? Why is anyone on your books on the payroll? So then I go into the next category. So these are Jamil’s expenses, okay, my expenses indemnity and registration. In my opinion that’s not reoccurring costs. And then I’ve got courses. Any courses I go on, although they’ll be taken off my Tax profit loss, it will still count, as it will also count, as is an expense, any JT equipment, like, for example, if I bought loops, if somebody else was to buy my practice, they’re not going to occur costs for loops, will they? That’s not a real indication of how profitable my company is implant equipment and General equipment. And then I’ve got interest on my loans, interest on my bounce back loan and stuff like that. So it’s really easy. Have I done anything complicated? No, no, was that more than 10, though I lost?

Dr James: 

count. There was this about. That’s about 50 categories there.

Dr Jamil: 

Yeah, yeah so, but I but people could just pick which one they want. Yeah, cool, whatever you do, you know, when you’re analyzing your account, you need, whatever you do, you must, you must, you must, you must put everything into a category. So you know, you could put general look, you could put dental materials into general. Look, you can put dental materials into general. Look, you could put dental materials into general expenses. You could put postage into general expenses, and so you can really sit it down like that. So I don’t know if a lot of people do, but I’ve got two bank accounts, so I analyze all my bank accounts and and the you know the thing I was going to tell you about earlier on. I think it’s called data validation, if I’m correct, and so data validation, all it is. So you get a line Okay, let’s say you got a line, you spent 15 pound test go, you make a little category sign and Then you just select the category you want, so it could be like general expenses, and then, on the right hand side, excel will put the cost of that into general expenses. So it’s something called data validation. I am sure your counter will assist you with all of that, though, because they would love for you to do that, because you’re taking away all their headache, and so I’m not waiting for my counter to tell me how much corporation tax. I know how much I’ve got to pay by the time I’ve analyzed my goodness that puts you in like the 1% of business owners of all time.

Dr James: 

That’s why taxes so scary because you’re like, oh my god, how much of this is corporation tax? What software do you use for that? Or you just figured out?

Dr Jamil: 

No, I just use Excel for everything, okay, so is that the gold standard in accounting? In my opinion I don’t. People say you go usage and Scan your invoices. Forget all that. You know what you spent and You’ll know what you spent, like, for example, if you see something like Google’s taking 500. Like you know you spent on Google ads. You see one, two, three red. You know is a domain. If you, if you’re making a payment of 10,000 pound to rights, you don’t need to look at every invoice. You know it’s for rights, is for right, is for dental consumables. That makes sense. It’s not. It’s not tricky. Royal Mail, you know it’s for postage. You don’t go to go to Royal Mail to go buy a can of coke. Unlikely, unlikely that’s I know, and I will say and, but I’ll still complain to my accountant, don’t get me wrong, I’ll still moan at it. I’ve eaten much time, but he was like it is. I get the worst case, the maximum tax I will be due to pay, because then they will try and manipulate. I don’t know what they do, but they’ll try to reduce. They’ll say, actually use this as an expense, blah, blah, blah. They usually get it down a bit, don’t they? Is tax saving, isn’t it? Whatever, it’s not. Tax evasion is tax avoidance.

Dr James: 

No, it’s not tax avoidance, either is tax efficiency. We’ve got to be careful with that.

Dr Jamil: 

I don’t know, james, there’s there’s three.

Dr James: 

There’s tax mitigation, tax efficiency, tax avoidance.

Dr Jamil: 

I think I’m pretty sure avoidance is the no no, no, no, no, no, no, no, it’s not, no, no, it’s not the other one. And which one did I say? No, you, I think it anyway. Anyway, I think it’s one of the legal, one of the legal, which everyone’s not illegal.

Dr James: 

That’s, that’s what we meant right, that’s what we did.

Dr Jamil: 

Yeah, you could. There’s loads of ways that your counter will tell you, like go buy a new scanner. That’s like tax efficiency, isn’t it? It’s about by third quarter, my counter, you need to get rid of this money. Like you need to go, go do your waiting room up, go do this, go do that.

Dr James: 

So invest in something right.

Dr Jamil: 

Invested to something but then don’t spend money for the sake of spending money, neither. I don’t think is right to spend that too, and I think now, in this day and age, because corporation tax over 100,000 gone up by 25, I think it’s more important than ever to do your own accounts, because that five, six percent is massive.

Dr James: 

Jamil, I’m sure we could go on all day about numbers, really, really, really appreciate it If we waste them. An insight I’m going to throw something out there for the associates who’ve made it this far in the podcast, because obviously this has been very principle oriented prior to this point, and not just necessarily current principles but also aspiring principles too. So what I wanted to check in was associates. If you listen and you’ve made it this far, the single most cool thing that you can do to make more money is track and log your treatments, how many of them you’re doing each and every week, the prices of them, understand your gross, understand your associate split, understand your net afterductions. And then all you got to do, once you have that data in front of you laid out really, really, really nicely just have a little play with the numbers. Right, if I do a little bit more of this treatment, if I enhance the price of this treatment, then have a little bit of an idea or keep an eye on how that affects your final output and you can have a play with them to your heart’s content to be able to hit certain wage aspirations, to be able to hit certain remuneration aspirations. But you can’t do that unless you have the data laid out there in front of you, when you have it on an Excel sheet, you can tweak the numbers, you can play with them. It’s incredible, such an understated thing that I think more people should do Only from the point of view, if you need to get to a certain financial goal, to be able to have more freedom in your life, do less dentistry, have more fun, all of that stuff, then we should be able to talk about money. But of course we have to balance that with ethical and moral considerations as well.

Dr Jamil: 

Jameel. Can I just give a shout out quickly? Absolutely so, guys, if anyone wants to reach out to me, my Instagram handle is dentistjamel. I don’t charge for any courses or anything like that. Just reach out to me. If you need a bit of help, need a bit of advice, I’ll try to help you the best I can.

Dr James: 

Very kind, Jameel Jameel, thanks so much for your time once more. We’ll speak again very soon.

Dr Jamil: 

Thank you so much, thank you.