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Dentists Who Invest

Podcast Episode

Dr James: 

Fans of the Dentists Who Invest podcast. If you feel like there was one particular episode in the back catalog in the anthology of Dentists Who Invest podcast episodes that really, really really was massively valuable to you, feel free to share that with a fellow dental colleague who’s in a similar position, so their understanding of finance can be elevated and they can hit the next level of financial success in their life. Also, as well as that, if you could take two seconds to rate and review this podcast, it would mean the world. To me, what that would mean is that it drives this podcast further in terms of reach so that more dentists across the world can be able to benefit from the knowledge contained therein. Welcome, welcome to the Dennis who Invest podcast. Good afternoon everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Dentists Who Invest, episode number 21 of the podcast. Thanks for everybody who’s listened to it so far. I can’t believe that it’s lasted as long as it has. Every day seems a blessing to me and I just really love doing it, so I’m really thrilled to be able to present it to everybody. I’m glad that everybody’s having found in so much value. Hopefully many more episodes to come. Today we have another guest on the theme or topic of Hoises. She is someone who was recommended to me by Harry Singh, a man who’s definitely in the know when it comes to Hoises, so I think any recommendations of his definitely speaks highly as a credential or on your CV in terms of the level of standard that these individuals must be at, because Harry, of course, he has been doing Hoises for a long time and he really knows his stuff. We are very privileged to have her here today. She is a mortgage advisor, but she also specialises on dentists. I hope I’ve described you accurately there, sarah. Her full name is Sarah Grace. Welcome to the show.

Sarah: 

Hi James, yes, yes, no, that’s very, very good introduction.

Dr James: 

Yes happy with that. Yeah, good stuff. Don’t let it all go to your head, sarah. I know that you won’t, but no, I have to say Harry is very competent and he really, really knows what he’s talking about, so it’s definitely a positive thing or something that’s. You came highly recommended by him, so you must be good at what you do, is all I can say. So, sarah, we have, of course, never met until now, and there’ll be lots of people on the group who may not have heard of you, so I was wondering if you could just do a brief intro about who you are, what you do and how you help dentists specifically.

Sarah: 

Yes, yes, that’s great, James. Yes, well, I’ve been in the mortgage industry for about 27 years, so I’ve got quite a lot of knowledge and experience on the mortgage side. I’ve been working predominantly with dentists since 2004. So I understand the dental career path, the foundation dentists, udas, that sort of thing. So I understand the challenges that dentists have when they’re coming to get a mortgage because they’re self-employed. I understand the self-employed whether it be sole trade, a partnership, limited company understand all of those different types of incomes. I’m actually self-employed myself. I went from a sole trader to a limited company, so I really do understand that transaction as well. We’ve got about 540 dental clients, so I’ve done a few mortgages for dentists over the years. So don’t hold me to it, but I think I’ve probably come across most income situations, but I’m always up for a challenge of a new one.

Dr James: 

Cool, fair enough, good stuff. And is that mainly people who are looking to buy houses to live in or buy to let’s and other arrangements for mortgages?

Sarah: 

A bit of both. Really. I would say it’s predominantly residential, but obviously because of Harry Singh he does, you know it is buy to let. So his clients that he has that are looking to build portfolios by to let’s be it, you know, starting a portfolio or increasing their portfolio, We’ll do that as well, and that can be buy to let’s in a sole name or in a limited company. We do both.

Dr James: 

Cool and I know that you’re an advisor or you help dentists in the process of getting mortgages. But just spell it out exactly when do you fit into the process Should someone come to you before they’ve procured the mortgage, or where do you just fit in exactly in that process For anybody?

Sarah: 

who’s come up for the?

Dr James: 

first time, because I’ve never bought a house, you see, and I’m sure there’ll be other people here who are in the same boat as me, so I don’t even know the first step about the process. And yeah, I’m just wondering at what part you get involved.

Sarah: 

I would say I always prefer speaking to clients before they’ve even started to look for properties, because that we do have clients that come to us and say I’ve had a offer accepted on a property, can you get me a mortgage, which is, which is absolutely fine, don’t get me wrong. But then we’ve got our backs up against the walls and sometimes, if estate agents have been, you know well, we weren’t except their offer until we’ve got a mortgage agreement in principle. It can all be a bit stressful for everyone. So what I would say is get in touch with us, let’s have a chat, see what you want to achieve. I’ll talk about deposits, because at the moment the big thing is, deposit makes a massive difference on your interest rate that you pay. So it might be that the deposit isn’t quite big enough, or it might be that you can talk to Bank and Mum and Dad being, as they’re doing, about 7% of the lending in the industry at the moment, or something like that. You know, I can give you an idea of what the monthly costs are going to be on your sort of. If you’ve got a, normally you’ve got a sort of price range in mind of what you want to buy, and then we can talk about that. It might be a case of you know, this time of year we’re coming close to the end of the tax year. It might be look, if you hold fire until the 6th of April, get your accountant to do your tax return, we’re going to have so many more options. If we leave it till then, we can talk about lots of different options, whereas you know we don’t have the options if you’ve already got a property Offers being accepted.

Dr James: 

You know what? I almost felt a bit silly asking that question, but I’m glad that I did, because I definitely would have come to you after I already. Yeah, yes yeah, yeah, call me, call me naive, but yeah, like I say, it almost felt like a silly question when I was asking that because I thought, okay, most people who are listening will probably know the answer to this bar me, but, yeah, anybody out there who I can’t imagine. I was the only one who thought that and I’m glad that you set a straight there. Really, yeah, what higher so you’re when you say your backs are against the wall after the Agreement has already been made.

Sarah: 

Why is? Yeah, well, it’s, it’s just a State agents, predominantly, are the bains of our lives. They put everybody under pressure. They, they, you know they or they might say, well, we won’t accept your offer or we won’t allow you to go and view a property, unless you’ve got an agreement in principle, which is what we’ve had a lot of just recently, and that’s understandable because the markets been incredibly buoyant. So so you know, by by coming to us under pressure, it puts you under pressure, it puts us under pressure and and at the moment, you know, because we’re incredibly busy, we can’t perhaps just be as reactive as as we are some other times. So so the thing is is by just speaking to me, you know beforehand, there’s no pressure, you can, you can fill out, or we’ve got a client portal. You can fill that out over a weekend at your leisure, rather than staying up till 2, 3 am In the morning doing this.

Dr James: 

Okay, fair enough, cool. So obviously you’ve been doing this for a while. I’m sure there are some classic mistakes that you see quite frequently. How can we generally be more savoury as Borrowers who are looking for a house, and what do we need to look out for?

Sarah: 

Yeah, I, there’s a few things With regards to get obtained in a mortgage. There’s some simple things like which which we get an awful lot of, especially if if you sort of just Finished your foundation year and you’ve not been long out of uni the amount of clients that aren’t on the electoral roll. Which lenders prefer to see you on the electoral roll. So that’s one big thing. The another big thing is is that your documents don’t tally with where you’re saying you live, so a lot of people just leave everything.

Dr James: 

Registered at their parents.

Sarah: 

Yeah, yeah so so you put on the application form that you live in in London but your parents live in Birmingham. I’m listening to these no-no’s right now and I’m just ticking off everyone yeah and just lenders don’t like it when, when Everything doesn’t tally, which you can understand, because when they’re looking, when they’re looking at applications, they’re looking at fraudulent applications as well, and those are the classic things that they pick up on fraud, and and we all know that it’s just that the amount of people that say, oh, I thought it’d be better to keep it at my parents so that I don’t keep on changing address, but that’s that’s not. That’s not always the case.

Dr James: 

Yeah, yeah, again me. And that was the main reason why, because, yeah, well, I mean when I was a student. You move every year, don’t you? Yes yes, dentistry is five years, so it’s even more of a fast to keep changing, and yeah, I can see it from. I can see why someone might do that. So would that mean that these banks, or whoever the lender is, would give you poor interest rates, or would they just make you jump through more hoops to prove who you are?

Sarah: 

Well, no, I’ve got. What one lender that if, if it was with a 10% deposit. If you’re not on the electoral role, they’ll decline you right?

Dr James: 

yeah, fair enough. And Am I right or am I wrong in saying that, depending on how long you’ve been on the electoral role, does that make a difference, either in terms of the you know the terms that they might give you as far as Interest rates, or you know?

Sarah: 

Yeah, it’s not so much the interest rates, it’s whether they’ll approve you for a loan or not. So the thing the thing is is if you’ve been registered with mum and dad on on the on the electoral role, well that that’s fine. But just move it. Move the electoral registration to where you’re living at the moment. They’ve still got a continuation of you’ve been on the electoral somewhere, but, but if you can be at your current address, that that’s the best good stuff.

Dr James: 

What about specifically for dentists, then? How can, how can we what are the kind of typical things that you can do to help us, as dentists, get better terms on our mortgage? So I know that obviously a lot of dentists are self-employed and what some banks do is they insist that you have two years Pemins yes, wage history so maybe you can offer them, point them in the right direction of somebody who can lend to them. That could be one of the ways. I don’t know if there’s others.

Sarah: 

Yeah, there’s, there’s, I would say. The majority of lenders want two years account. So if you, if you think about you, you finish your foundation year In August, you start, you start your Associate position in September, so your first tax return that you do will be up until April the following year, but then that’s only going to have seven months of earnings. So really you’ve got to have two and a half years of earnings before you get a tax return with a full years of self-employed Figures. So so what what we have is we’ve lenders that will work off your. So so I’m actually doing a couple of mortgage currently where Two people have finished their foundation year in in August and they’ve they started associate positions in September. So what we’ve done is we’ve gotten them a principles reference who have confirmed the UDAs, we’ve got the copy of their pay schedules from the, from the practices that they work at, see if that tallies with what the principal saying and then send that to the lender and they will work off the UDA figure.

Dr James: 

Right, I see, and then at that point they can usually get credit.

Sarah: 

Yes. So if you do, for example, 6000 UDAs at let’s make it easy 10 pounder UDA, they will look at your earnings for 60,000 a year and then they will base their lending decision on 60,000 income.

Dr James: 

Oh, brilliant, so it’s not as black and white as we always. Have to wait this two and a half years?

Sarah: 

No, no, no, Excellent, excellent.

Dr James: 

I wish I would have known that sooner, because I delayed. Well, I have been delayed. I have delayed buying a house for a little while because I was under the impression that you had to have this two and a half years worth of credit. But what had happened to me was I went to Santander one day and I spoke to someone you know and they were behind the desk, you know, in their. You know, I had a one to one meeting, I suppose.

Sarah: 

Yes.

Dr James: 

And because they weren’t familiar exactly with dentists and their pay schedule and their arrangement, because it is a bit of a unique one they just simply said to me oh, you’ll have to come back in two years. Two years and I’m not as self-employed, but it’s not as black and white as that.

Sarah: 

No, we have got lenders and I’ve educated lenders over the years and I have I do have, you know some exclusive criteria off a couple of lenders, am I right?

Dr James: 

in saying these are usually high street banks, then that give this credit. Do the lending?

Sarah: 

They’re not your nationwide Santanders. You know high, high street they are. They are sort of really reputable, sort of well-known lenders, but they’re, perhaps you know, more regional based rather than national high street lenders.

Dr James: 

Really valuable bit of information, that about the dentists being unique in that they can be self-employed but still obtain a mortgage.

Sarah: 

Yes.

Dr James: 

Just not having that is. You know, that is a really valuable piece of information. Actually, I wish I would have known that sooner, I’m sure that’s helped you.

Sarah: 

who are listening?

Dr James: 

Can’t be the only issue you come across. It must be a little more complex than that. There must be other things that you say.

Sarah: 

The accounts is probably the number one issue that I have. The other thing at the moment, which is really specific to the market at the moment because of the pandemic that we’re in, is deposit is really key on the type of rate that you’re going to pay. So if you, we have now lenders with a 10% deposit that will lend, whereas only two, three months ago there was very well, there was near on no lenders that would lend with a 10% deposit two, three months ago, we’re back into the. We do have lenders. There’s a bit of competition, rates are coming down. Even with a 15% deposit, rates are probably still sat at about 1% more than what they were pre-pandemic. So deposit is really key. So the one thing that I am telling sort of advising clients at the moment is probably to consider a two-year fixed rate over a five-year, because that means that you can switch the rate in two years time and hopefully the market will have settled down a little bit in two years time and we’ll be back to more of the pre-pandemic rates because the cost of funds on the money markets, which is what lenders secure the rates on they are no different to what they were 12 months ago.

Dr James: 

Aside from what you’ve just mentioned, is there any trends that you’ve noticed at the minute, given the whole COVID pandemic, something that’s changed in the last 12 months?

Sarah: 

No, I would say that London is quite in down an awful lot because we’re national, we do all of our client calls over the phone and that, so I’ll deal with any client anywhere in the UK. So London is really quite in down, but that’s probably what’s happening nationally anyway. I think they in one of the Sunday papers not very long ago I think they said 76,000 people have moved out of London. So that probably sort of tallies with what I’m finding the London market has quite in down.

Dr James: 

So whether that’s a up-and-coming market, whether there’s going to be some deals to be had in London, that might be the case, yeah well you might guess that that’s because, obviously, london is well, obviously, with COVID going on and London being so compact that people are trying to get out of the city and maybe, fingers crossed, when all of this comes on, they might return again.

Sarah: 

Yes, yeah, that’s the theory.

Dr James: 

I suppose really isn’t it yes.

Sarah: 

So that London might be an opportunity but other areas, sort of more rural areas, and that we’re seeing a lot of people buying, a lot of first-time buyers we’re dealing with at the moment. So, yeah, a lot of mortgages generally, yeah fair enough.

Dr James: 

Well, a lot of demand at the minute because of the capital gains Sorry, not the capital gains there. Stump duty holiday.

Sarah: 

Stump duty holiday. Yeah, how do you?

Dr James: 

expect that to pan out over the next few months. Well, I think it will end, yeah.

Sarah: 

Yeah, it will end Well. That’s my opinion. But don’t forget, if you’re a first-time buyer, I assume that the Government will put back in place the first-time buyer stamp duty scheme that they had prior to the stamp duty holiday. So up to 500K, you still had a good discount on a stamp duty. So just because you might have missed the 31st of March deadline doesn’t mean to say that it’s not going to be good to buy post-31st of March.

Dr James: 

Do you think there might even be? An increase in stamp duty, not an increase. No, no majority will get an increase or too hard to call.

Sarah: 

I think that’s cool too. I’ve been in this game for too long to try and predict what’s going to happen.

Dr James: 

Well, it’s like anything really. I mean anything, finance. You know you have your predictions and your models and your theories, but what happens in money is just a reflection of what happens in society quite often and it’s really hard to predict what happens in society and therefore, by extension, what happens in finance. Yes, yes, see, if you can mind if I really know what’s going to happen with the stock market. You know people guess, but you never know for sure. Real quick guys. I’ve put together a special report for Dentist entitled the Seven Costs and Potentially Disasters Mistakes the Dentist may whenever it comes to their finances. Most of the time, dentist are going through these issues and they don’t even necessarily realize that they’re happening until they have their eyes opened, and that is the purpose of this report. You can go ahead and receive your free report by heading on over to wwwdenisoonvestcom. Forward slash podcast report or, alternatively, you can download it using the link in the description. This report details the seven most common issues. However, most importantly, it also shows you how to fix them Really. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

Sarah: 

You’ll never know until after the event. And that’s the thing is. In theory, everybody wants to buy at the bottom of the market and sell at the top. But when people say to me, is it a good time to buy or when’s a good time to buy, the question that I always ask is by or investing in property? It’s a long term investment and as long as you invest for the long term, you will always well based on any any past performance, you will always gain. And if the alternative is to rent well, you know I’m now quite often doing mortgages and people say, gosh, that mortgage payment is cheaper than my rent. And the thing is, is mortgage payments they’re paying back the capital, they’re not just paying the interest, which is what renters. It’s dead money. You’re never going to get it back.

Dr James: 

Yeah, of course, fair enough. Well, I think that that’s the main reason why, as a renter, I need a good kick off the backside to just go and buy a horse. So, yeah, I really need to get right into that because, as you say, it’s just it’s money into a black hole and with a mortgage, at least you’re actually contributing towards something. Presumably, you say that buying a horse or property is a long term investment because of how many tax implications there are when you try to move it on.

Sarah: 

Yeah well, there’s no, there’s no capital gains tax on sale of a personal private main residence. The thing is, is to buy and sell does cost quite a lot, because if you’ve got stamp duty to buy and then to sell, you’ve got agents fees and then you’ll probably buy again. So you’ve got stamp duty again, you’ve got solicitors costs. You know, I would say, on buying, the buying and selling sort of standard, you’re selling gets 300, buying get 500, which is probably the second time me that you know I do quite a lot for people. You probably look on the sale and purchase. You’ve got 20 grams worth of costs with stamp duty. So you know, my view is is to borrow as much as you can at the beginning and try and take out one of those moves, because every move cost you about 20 K.

Dr James: 

Yeah, fair enough. Well, that is why I know that some investors they have a bit of a bone to pick with property just because it’s inverted commas a liquid, so it’s difficult to use at the drop of a hat, you know but obviously there are special cases, in a sense as well, because you need to get your first house, we know, just so that you’ve got somewhere to reside and as well as that, so you’re not chucking money into a black hole, which is effectively what renting is. Yes, yeah, another way of looking at it, but you know there’s not a there’s not to say that you can argue case for them being part of a diversified portfolio, but maybe a portfolio that is wholly subsets, subsist, subsisting in houses. Well, there’s a few downsides to it, basically, but you’ll know more than me, sarah, I’m sure. Yeah yeah, yeah, I think that’s a reasonable thing to say. So, given everything that we’ve just said, what do you think about buying the minute? Is that a good idea or a bad idea?

Sarah: 

Yeah, you know, I don’t, I don’t, I don’t think there’s, you know, any particular good time or bad time. You only know after the event whether it was good or bad to buy. So you know that you’ve you’ve got to do it for the right reasons. If you want to make a fast buck, you know I would say that it is risky. If you want to make a fast buck and be in and out of the market quickly, and also if it’s your home, well, you know, does it? Does it really matter if it’s going to cost you, you know, an extra thousand pounds a year for the next 20 years? It’s your home and having having a home is possibly quite important, especially, especially in today’s. You know we’re all spending so much more time at home. Having a nice home and having the right home is probably more important than anything else.

Dr James: 

Yeah, fair enough. Yeah, like I said, I suppose it comes back to that special case, what we said earlier. Well, houses are a special case and because you need one, then it’s worth going out of your way to get your first one, just so that you can save money on rent After that. It’s more of a conundrum and difficult to say, I think, because of stamp duty, because of, well, what way the market’s going to go after that? Difficult to say.

Sarah: 

If I’m, if I’m gathering, you’re saying correctly. Yes, yes, yeah, yeah, if you’re buying, if you’re buying as an investment for buy to let, and that obviously you want to try and play the market a little, a little bit more. You know, at the moment, obviously there’s a there’s up to 15k incentive by not paying the stamp duty on a purchase of 500k, so so that’s quite a good incentive to buy now, after, after April. You know, I, I, I don’t know. It depends on how, how the economy does. You know, they’re all all talking about a strong bounce back because of the vaccine that we have, which, if that’s the case, well, yeah, carry on, carry on buying, but it might, it might become more of a buyer’s market in April, because there’s so many transactions that are going through now. It might become a bit more of a buyer’s market. So, negotiate, negotiate the hell out of the purchase prices.

Dr James: 

And bear enough. Is that something that you do a little bit of, then flipping hizes?

Sarah: 

No, I’ve always bought and hold. But I did sell one recently due to the stamp duty not stamp duty, sorry due to the taxation of vital arts one that didn’t create much profit. It was actually an ex-main residence so I never bought it as a rental and it wasn’t a particularly good yield rental, but I didn’t want to sell it. But I did sell it once the taxation changes came in because it was going to cost me to keep it, so it wasn’t worth keeping. So yeah, but all the vital arts I’ve ever had is I’ve bought to hold.

Dr James: 

Really interestingly, we had a chap on the last podcast who was how can I say not a fan of vital arts, and he said that it’s actually very difficult to make them profitable these days. What’s your take on that?

Sarah: 

Yeah, I think certainly anything south of Birmingham. You’re probably correct because I know. When I first bought my vital art you know I’m looking at 20 odd years ago I’d be working on a yield of 10% and I wouldn’t do anything unless I got a 10% yield. Now you know that 5% is deemed as a good yield.

Dr James: 

Yeah, yeah, fair enough. So north of Birmingham still worth your while.

Sarah: 

Yeah, I think so. Yeah, you can pick up houses for just over 100k. You’ve not then got massive deposits that you’ve got to put down and the rental yields are a lot better.

Dr James: 

What sort of rental yields should we be looking for then?

Sarah: 

Well, it depends on like probably Harry’s the better person to ask it’s what’s your aim, what’s your goals? Are you buying to have capital growth or are you buying for a yield? Because I tend to think that you either go for one or the other. You’re very lucky if you get both.

Dr James: 

Harry says something similar. Actually, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, so no, I was just wondering if you could maybe give a bit of a figure in terms of yield returns every year that someone might want to. You know you might expect to make a buy to let profitable. Well, yeah, maybe it’s not necessarily what you do every day like what Harry does.

Sarah: 

Yeah, like the thing is is from a lender’s point of view. Most lenders will stress test it at a rate of 5.5% unless you go for a five year fix. So really you know lenders are saying that they expect you to get a five and a half percent yield because otherwise they might not think that it’s worth having. But you know you can get mortgages with a lower stress test but you have to do a five year fix rate to get that Totally understand.

Dr James: 

Yeah, well, I was actually planning on asking you if you had any hot tips in terms of where we might look for rental yields or capital growth, but I’m not necessarily sure. If that’s your forte, is that something that you might?

Sarah: 

want to keep going. Well, I would, yeah, like, as I say, we are national, but I would. One of the things that I would always say is the location, location, location. Don’t buy the most expensive house on the street because there’s very little growth in that property. Better off to buy a smaller house in a nicer area, and yeah, but you know, if you’re looking at I know I mentioned London before, I don’t just deal with London, but you know, if you’re looking at London but being by a tube station is is going to be more popular If you’re, if you’re in a rural area, you know, just don’t buy, just don’t buy the most expensive house or the most expensive house on the estate. You know if you’re buying on the house in the state, and if you, if you don’t know what, how, how well, how do I check out what those properties have gone for? You can always go to RightMove and there’s, instead of looking at buying, you can look at sold, sold prices and you just put the postcode postcode of the area and then it will tell you all of the houses that have sold in the last sort of 10 years in that area.

Dr James: 

Oh, that’s a good top tip actually. So that’s a little bit of market research. An easy way of doing market research, isn’t it?

Sarah: 

Yeah.

Dr James: 

Yeah.

Sarah: 

Yeah.

Dr James: 

That’s the reason that, so you can’t give us any hot tips in terms of areas. How do you think said Grimsby had good?

Sarah: 

Oh right, Grimsby. Yeah, it’s called cold up north.

Dr James: 

Yeah, I take it that’s because the houses are cheap.

Sarah: 

Yes, probably probably yeah, and that would be good for a rental yield. I would have thought as well. And also, if you like fish, that’d be a great area to live. Do you know?

Dr James: 

I used to do. I used to go to clinic in Hull. I have never I have never been somewhere so cheap.

Sarah: 

Yes.

Dr James: 

And it’s like. It’s like it’s off stuff that you can buy in the shop. It’s insane. Yeah, it’s like it’s, like it’s another. You’re on holiday. Yes, those prices like in Thailand or something? Yes, absolutely. Like you literally do a double take because everything is so cheap. But it’s right next to the sea, I guess. So, yeah, fresh off the boat into Hull. I don’t really know exactly why, but if anybody wants a cheap day, I recommend Hull. All right. Well, thank you so much, sarah. There was definitely some good tidbits in there for anybody listening. The two years well, the not necessarily having to wait two years yes, if you didn’t take anything else away from this podcast and your first time bar and your dentist, that is a golden nugget right there.

Sarah: 

Yes. I did not know that I did not know that the biggest myth that I have of any dentist that calls and saying I’ve been told that I need to have two years.

Dr James: 

Yeah, 100%, 100% yeah, because what happened to me and I’m sure it’s happened to other people you’ll get someone in a bank they’re a tick box person or they’re just, you know, they kind of greet everybody and they don’t really know the specific nuances of dentistry Then for that reason they might be in the best position to inform you where you stand on that. So we’re hoping that that has some went. Has went somewhere to dispel that myth. Yeah, I could have done with using that. I could have used that information a lot sooner, most definitely. So thanks for that from me. No problem, wonderful. Okay then, sarah. Well, thank you so much for giving up your time today to come on the podcast. Is there a way that anybody in the group can get in touch with you Should they be interested or want to learn more?

Sarah: 

Yeah, we’ve got a. You can phone me, you can email me. We’ve got a. We’ve also got a website, the websites wwwsarah-gracecouk. Yeah, so so we’ve got, we’ve got lots of things on there about. We’ve got, you know, the, the no accounts, the one year’s accounts, all of that. If you want to read up any more information on that On the website, there’s a, there’s a link for let’s talk. So if you want to get in touch with us, you can contact us via the website. Our phone numbers 0203 6333, 08. So that’s, that’s fine. I’d say, you know, if you want to, if anybody wants to just have a chat with me, we don’t charge to have a chat. I want to help people. You know, that’s what I’m about. I want to help people and help make sure that people get good deals and and and that. So, yeah, just get in touch.

Dr James: 

OK, well, thank you so much. Sarah’s been an absolute pleasure having you on the show.

Sarah: 

No, that’s lovely, Thank you. Thank you so much for the opportunity, James and you have a good day.

Dr James: 

No problem, sarah. Absolute pleasure and thank you so much for all the value that you’ve given us. Hope you have a wonderful day and we’ll speak very soon. Ok, bye, thank you for this well being and investing knowledge, looking forward to seeing you on there.