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Dentists Who Invest

Podcast Episode

Dr James: 

Fans of the Dennis who Invest podcast. If you feel like there was one particular episode in the back catalog in the anthology of Dennis who Invest podcast episodes that really, really really was massively valuable to you, feel free to share that with a fellow dental colleague who’s in a similar position, so their understanding of finance can be elevated and they can hit the next level of financial success in their life. Also, as well as that, if you could take two seconds to rate and review this podcast, it would mean the world. To me, what that would mean is that it drives this podcast further in terms of reach so that more dentists across the world can be able to benefit from the knowledge contained therein. Welcome, welcome to the Dennis who Invest podcast. Welcome back, everybody, to another episode of Dennis who Invest, episode number 22. I think we’ve covered just about every aspect of dental finance that there is. Having said that, I’m sure I’ll dream up more over the coming weeks and months. This is an episode. It’s a little bit. It’s not traditionally associated specifically with dentists, but I still think it is nonetheless very useful. Today’s episode is going to focus on cars, and we’ve got someone eminently qualified to speak on that. He runs the Facebook group Turbine for us dentists who are into our cars, and his name is Neil Jazzwell. How are you today, neil?

Neel: 

I’m very well, James. How are you?

Dr James: 

I’m all right, I’m all right. You have a day off today, then.

Neel: 

Yeah, every day is a day off. Work is fun. Every day is a day off.

Dr James: 

Hey, I like that. I like that. If you can do what you love, then yeah, you never work it down your life. They say, but presumably that means you’re not a dentist any longer or you don’t practice anymore.

Neel: 

No, I do a couple of days and obviously do the indemnity and just trying to get a work-life balance. I think that’s sort of what COVID is teaching us a little less than here.

Dr James: 

Definitely, yeah, definitely. I mean I think that I’ve definitely been in the ballpark or the camp before where I just work, work, work, work, work, work, and almost just from the point of view of accruing as much money as I can, and definitely COVID has turned that on its head for me, as I’m sure for most people I know I see things more in a broader sense.

Neel: 

Well, I think I mean dentists tend to be going off topic a little bit. We’re very academic people and since we were little we’ve always been pass and exam, pass and exam, pass and exam. And we get to our vocation and then we’re sort of really like, well, actually, are we here to help people? Are we here to study and get further in our education, or do we need to make money? And we do need to make all three really but we sort of end up not learning anything about business and getting thrown and trying to manage our own finances and business at the age of 25.

Dr James: 

Totally. I mean, wouldn’t that be an important part of any university curriculum to me? Or even if it’s not necessarily to do with dentistry, it would have been incredibly useful, and I suppose that’s what inspired the page, really. And as well as that, there’s so many how can I say people who are maybe don’t have our interests at heart, who are within the finance industry and, yeah, they do want to help us, but I suppose that what comes first in their mind is how they can perpetuate business interests before anything else, and that was, yeah, that was one of the main reasons that ignited. You know, my reasons to start the group is just so that we can have an unadulterated, wholesome way of encouraging financial discussions and spread of knowledge, and hence why I’ve got people like yourself on the show, who it helps when you’re a dentist as well, because you see it from the inside rather than from the outside. Looking in and cars is something that well, it’s always. It’s a bit of a status symbol, isn’t it? And it’s very easy just to get the nicest car that money can buy. But is that necessarily the best decision? Or how can we be savour when we’re buying cars? I really don’t know much about buying cars personally, and I’m sure there’ll be lots of people who are listening to this podcast who will feel in the same boat as me, and that’s why I thought it would be such a relevant one and an interest in one, and you’ve got quite a lot of experience in buying and selling cars, isn’t that right, neil?

Neel: 

you just like to talk a little bit more about that uh, I well, that’s not as much as some people, obviously, and there’s some people on our turbine group who, uh, you know, we bow down to their knowledge. But what I can say is that I’ve kind of, um, you know, I’ve liked cars from a young age and, uh, you know, I’ve had quite a few. I’ve been lucky enough to have some nice cars and worked my way up, um, but there is just going back to one of your points especially as a young dentist, you kind of, you know, maybe you shouldn’t be affected by what’s around you, but we all are, and you might see people who think are successful on Instagram, but you don’t really know anybody’s story, whether they’ve got property or bitcoin or inheritance. So you have to kind of play your own game and not worry about your status in terms of what you have. It’s more about your status as a person. You know, are you a good person? And, you know, do people respect you? Those kind of things. So what I would say is a car isn’t one of the first things you should buy, although we all, you know, if you love cars, soon as you get a paycheck, you’re buying a car, but which is fine. But don’t overextend yourself and don’t feel like you have to compete, because most cars will lose your money left, right in center. So there has to be a strategy and a deliberate long-term plan. But you know, james, you know from your, your Facebook group there’s so many other things that you need to get your ducks in a row first before you’re talking about long-term investments and short-term investments in cars well, this is it.

Dr James: 

I mean, depending on how much you know about investing, you know, to anybody who’s listening as an individual, it’s not just the money you spend on something that you’re not necessarily going to see a return on, it’s also the returns that you miss out on further down the line and that, however much you spend on a car, the magic of compound and that could be worth an absolute fortune many years down the line. So maybe it’s just kind of trying to flip on, flip on its head what we’re all indoctrinated to think, in that you get out of dental school, you know, you get your first paycheck, you go straight to the car shop, get yourself a really nice car, and that’s the temptation. And I’m not going to say I don’t feel like that, but the power of saving that money and maybe making a compromise on that front further down the line is absolutely massive, and that’s something that I’m going to flesh out a little bit later in the episode. So when you’re buying a car, neil, as you’ve once a fair bit of experience in, I know that you said maybe that on the on your turbine group, there’s other guys who do it a lot, a lot, but I’m sure you know a lot more than the average person who’s listening. Can you tell us what are your earmarks with regards to picking out the honest? Let’s say we have a you know a series, you know kind of a row of dealers lining up for their mug shot. Okay, how can you tell the honest guys apart from the guys that are, you know, maybe someone to be wary of? What are your red flags?

Neel: 

well. I think one of the reasons actually I started turbine which is coming up to about seven years now is I was looking to buy a car X amount of years ago and we’d walk into a dealership and you were lucky if they said hello to you or, you know, didn’t treat you well and we were doing a lot of back in the day, had the London type dentistry, really high service levels, concierge type things, and you’d go and buy an expensive car and you still get treated, you know, really poorly. And I just thought actually the car dealers are pretty poor as a whole. They’re much better now, but generally when we started to turbine they were really poor and they might be nice to you when you want to buy the car, but a car really isn’t just a one-time purchase. There are things that go wrong with it. There are future investments and cars to buy. So I realized what I really wanted to do was find out the good guys and promote them. And it’s a bit like dentists you know they’re good and bad dentists and the good dentists deserve to succeed and we deserve to shout about them. So it just started off a little bit like that of can we find out who these good guys are, and also as a group, which has been harder to do, but as a collective we’ve got some collective buying power, whether it’s through car insurance, which we’re working on actually, or buying cars or fleet, and we’ve managed to get really people who do look after us and it is really about recommendation and developing a relationship. It’s a bit like your dentist, I think. If you go from car dealer to car dealer and just trying and buying, you’ll never build up the kind of relationship that gets you access to the deals, to the good cars, to the special editions. And I’ve got some really good um a dealer, um relationships with Aston and with Lambeau and with Ferrari and Porsche not so much Porsche because they don’t really need us, but again, that took time and effort and building up. So I would say, have a look on turbine. There is a list of turbine and recommended dealers and these guys have been recommended by dentists themselves over a long period of time. Um, so it is very difficult. I have been burnt. I mean I’ve trusted somebody, a friend of a friend, who absolutely, you know, nearly caused me a lot of trouble, so I managed to find that out. So it’s not just one recommendation, try and get a few, and try and get a few over a period of time.

Dr James: 

I didn’t even. I wasn’t even aware that there was that sort of level of rapport that you can establish with your car dealer. I just thought it was a one and done thing. But there’s no harm in having some sort of relationship where you trust each other and he or she can recommend you uh, you know, cars that are worthwhile or cars that are in good shape. I suppose I’ve just never really thought of that before. But yeah, fair enough, yeah, interesting would you get to be kind?

Neel: 

Well, you might be buying cars for 20, 30, 40 years more, James, we don’t know. And it might be electric cars in 10 years time, but still, that passion is still going to be there. People are going to be buying really interesting, unique type cars and if you’re going to be spending 100,000, 200, half a million pounds to do your lifetime, it’s good to develop a relationship with somebody. So that’s why, at your age, set out your store, what’s your interest or what kind of cars you like, who can help you that? And you find with a set of certain dealers, the guys who are the professionals. They’re in it for the long term. They’ll be at dealership for a long period of time and we’ll try and build relationships where the guys who are just after their commission you might see them once the next month they’ve gone.

Dr James: 

Yeah, fair enough. I mean it makes sense that it exists. I guess I just never really thought about it before. I’ve only ever had one car in my life and it was when I was 22 and it was a Hyundai Coupe and I thought I was all that. Basically I thought it was the coolest car on the planet. I saved up loads to buy it. When you’re that age no, what age was I? I was more like 19. And it’s the trouble is, when you’re that age, it’s the cost of the car, but then it’s the insurance on top and it easily doubled how much I was paying for this car because it was a bit you know I don’t even know Is flash the word or maybe it was a bit gauche, because it was like bright green as well. Maybe it was a bit OTT, but at the time I thought I was the bee’s knees. But yeah, looking back, maybe I wasn’t quite as cool as I thought I was. I hope anybody who’s listening doesn’t drive a bright green Hyundai Coupe. I don’t mean to offend anybody, but this particular color of green it was very in your face, but yeah, it’s an interesting one. And then after that I’ve just kind of always managed with all the car really, because even though I do really like one, I just don’t really want to spend the money and I just think for me personally, at this point I can get to work all right without one because of where I live. So, but that’s just me personally. Everybody’s different, of course. How much should we be looking to spend on the car then, really, and how does that compare to our earnings? So, would you do you have a rule of thumb? Maybe at your X amount you spend this percentage. I really don’t know Any kind of advice you can give on that Real quick, guys. I put together a special report for Dentist entitled the Seven Costs and Potentially Disasters Mistakes the Dentist make whenever it comes to their finances. Most of the time, dentist are going through these issues and they don’t even necessarily realize that they’re happening until they have their eyes opened, and that is the purpose of this report. You can go ahead and receive your free report by heading on over to wwwdentistinvestcom forward slash podcast report or alternatively, you can download it using the link in the description. This report details the seven most common issues. However, most importantly, it also shows you how to fix them Really. Looking forwards to hearing your thoughts.

Neel: 

Well, I would generally say, as we were talking about earlier, you have to get your ducks in a row. If you’re living in a council house, a Lamborghini, something’s going wrong. So I think at your age you know better than I do. You know you’re more into it. You have to have a spread of investments, but I would say a roof over your head is probably the best long-term investment you can make. And you were saying about money being compounded and all that kind of thing. I made a huge mistake. I bought a Porsche Boxster in 2005. Love the car, really wanted one since uni, and I think I just paid about £50,000 which I put in cash and I wish I put that on a flat, you know. So I love the car, but it ended up being worth seven grand after, you know, eight, nine years and I kept it a long time. Interestingly, if I still kept that car, it’s still worth seven grand. So I bottomed out. But you’re absolutely right. You know you’ve got to kind of use that money wisely and really I would say a house is your best bet. I would say investing in your health you know whether I like private health insurance. I think that’s worth having and in your family, the other investments, I think again, your balance portfolio so that you’ve got some long-term investments or short-term investments. But also, I think, at your age I’m sorry I’m sounding like you’re really young and I’m really old, don’t need to patronise.

Dr James: 

No, it’s okay. No, it’s okay yeah.

Neel: 

Getting your education right. You know, just because you finished dental school, you are not the whole article. I mean, I’m sure you’ve realised that over the years. You know, go to the States, do spear Pankie Coys. You know you might have to spend 10, 20, 30, 40 grand, but it comes back to you. So I would rather you spend it on your education when you’re younger. And car is the last thing. And again, if you’re living in an urban area which I’m not sure if you are, James, but you don’t really need a car, as you said, and it’s quite puny, it’s quite punitive to have a car in the city nowadays.

Dr James: 

Well, this is it. I mean, I get by and sometimes I find my mind wandering a little bit and I think, oh, but wouldn’t it be cool to have one? But then when I deconstruct, aside from that one reason where I just think actually it would just be a little bit cool, there is no real actual substance beyond that. And I do get by without it and because of where I work, it actually takes just as long to drive there than it does to walk and get the train, so there’s no real practical reason in that sense. I have a little bit of an anecdotal story on this one in that I had a friend who he just got out of dental school, realized he was earning, got a really nice car on finance, ok. So no, he wasn’t just quite out of dental school, he’d done his foundation year, first real job out in the real world. He got a lovely car, got it on finance, got a house, all the rest, had all these outgoings. But he had it worked out that he’s still having, you know, a spare, however much, a couple of thousand every month, and he had a nice cushion there. And then things didn’t really go to plan, fell out with his boss, couldn’t work long term and then it just became this financial noose around his neck, basically because the finance was, however much a month it was, he couldn’t really pass it on to anybody else to sell it, and it wound up that he was just working just pretty much to exist every week and it didn’t really. That, maybe, to me, just kind of it’s where made me a bit wary of that sort of scenario. And, as I say, I just feel like the money that you invest while you’re young, whether that be in education, whether that be in whatever, you really can reap dividends in the long run because of your age, and hence that’s why I’ve kind of leaned away from it a little bit too much. And there will be lots of people, I think, who are listening to this, who maybe will kind of benefit from hearing that, because it is just something that a lot of people do when they get out of uni. And don’t get me wrong, the temptation is still there for me, but I have to resist After. My heart says yes but my mind says no. How can I say that? So, when you were talking, about go on.

Neel: 

Sorry to interrupt, James, I think from your point of view, as an investment, first of all you have a passion for it. If you haven’t got a passion for it, then by a watch or whatever your passion lies in, you’ve got to always enjoy something that you enjoy and you’ll always benefit from something you enjoy because you have to put the time and effort into, whether it’s property or Bitcoin or whatever. So you have to have a passion for it. But let’s say you did have a passion for it, which I think you have, if you bought that Hyundai sporty car. There is something in you that wants a little sporty car to run around, so don’t deny your urges. There is something that is a nice feeling, but also it might be that my dad really got me into cars, so there might be that actually the two of you together just buy an old classic. It brings you together. You work on it on the weekends, keep it at your folks house and that brings you together and that’s an investment in time for you two and also over time that will appreciate if you buy the right classic car. Or the other thing is, when we came out of uni I wanted to buy a car straight away, and the Hyundai, the Toyota MR2s. We were buying cars but they weren’t extravagantly out of our reach and we still felt that they’re cool. The problem is we’ve had really good finance rates for the last five years, 10 years, and so now an 8,000 pound car isn’t enough. We have to get an 80,000 pound car. So we’ve been duped into affordability by looking at the monthlys and not at the actual. What are you actually paying off this?

Dr James: 

is it? Credit is so normalized these days and once upon a time that wasn’t a case, but I believe we were gonna touch on that later. You were talking earlier about weighing up the pros and cons, the advantages and disadvantages, of having a nice car. Now, I know that it’s a status symbol. I know that, yeah, there can be a pressure to drive. Can you just talk a little bit more about your decision-making process on whether you’re weighing up as to whether this car that you want is worth it? Advantages and disadvantages.

Neel: 

A really good question, james. I think England is a funny place. It’s an island mentality and success if you’re on the only way is Essex or a footballer is acceptable. But success as a doctor or dentist somehow isn’t as acceptable. So we have to kind of bear that in mind. You know, when I go to the States and the dentist you know turns up in his Lamborghini, everyone’s like oh wow, well done, oh, that’s great. You turn up to your Lamborghini outside your practice and that’s a certain type of practice. People are going to think you’re overcharging or you’re doing something wrong or you’re corrupted or whatever. So unfortunately we have to kind of bear that in mind, that our sensibility in England is a little bit different. So there is this thing that actually if you want to be perceived as successful, you have to kind of look the part a little bit and there is a balance. So I had a friend of mine who’s in property and he would just turn up everywhere in his little mini, in a track suit, and I said you’re not going to get big deals like this, because he’s million pound, 10 million pound deals. They expect you to turn up in something. Now don’t turn up in a Lambo. But he actually, on my recommendation, bought a Porsche Cayenne, changes image a little bit and he is now making Emporio and Marnie stores in London and I’m not saying that’s what it caused, but actually how he perceived himself generated the clients. Now, my clients at Neil Dentistry are reasonably affluent, well to do and they don’t mind me having a nice car. They probably don’t want me having a Lambo outside, but they wouldn’t mind. You know something? And if I turned up in a banger they’d be like actually Neil’s not doing very well on how good actually is he. So I think there’s part of that of actually is your self esteem and how other people perceive you. The other thing is actually just by having a nice car it’s like a passport to another world. So I mean I’ve got an Aston and I’ve had a Ferrari, lucky enough for a while, and the people you meet through that, through the supercar clubs, through going to the garage, through going to events, getting flown to Geneva, going to Italy, they are priceless experiences and from them I’ve probably got 10, 15 clients, you know, who are spending X amount. So I’m not saying, buy a car and get more clients, but give yourself the opportunity, whether it’s a golf club that you like, or a local group, but networking you’re I mean, you know this as well, james you’re as good as people around you and you’ll you’ll get to that level. So, whatever you want to achieve in life, whether it’s health or whether it’s mindfulness, or whether it’s 100 properties, hang around those people, because they can walk the walk and talk the talk.

Dr James: 

In an abstract way. I suppose it is an investment. Then, If you catch my drift, do you know what I mean. But it all depends on your circumstances and what line of work you’re in.

Neel: 

Yeah, you can’t. I mean, I’m nearly 50 this year. Well, I’m going to be 50 in April, so I’m not sure what we’re doing. But you know, as a 25 year old, 35 year old, you’ve still got your practice to buy your house, to buy. You know, don’t think of trying to compete in these ways because we’re at different levels of our lives. So take the long term view. You know you might want to buy a flashy car, but you know, put it within your limits and enjoy it for what it is, and you’ll be silly, as you said, over extending yourself like imagine if you just got a 2000 pound lease a month and COVID hits you. You know, you know it’s taught us that we’re never quite sure of what’s around the corner. And unless you’ve got a couple of months of earnings in the bank, you know, save up and then invest the rest. That’s when you should be talking about a car and not before that time.

Dr James: 

I heard a great saying along those lines the other day. It was don’t compare your chapter three to someone else’s chapter 45. So what that means is you’re all at different parts of your story. I like that. You’ll be in your first chapters and you’re trying to compare yourself to someone who spent their whole life working, accumulated money and maybe has the spare cash to afford a car that is extremely luxury, and you cannot expect yourself to be at that level until you’ve spent that much time working on accumulating money. It’s a bit like the concept the success iceberg as well. You see the top 10%, but you don’t see the you know 90% that’s underneath it. Cars are it’s just another interesting way of looking at it 100%, and I personally I feel like I want to just not enter that whole car arena until I’ve got to the point where I am yeah, I’ve got more than enough money in the bank that I don’t have to worry about, you know, spending a little bit unnecessarily on that. When that point will be, we shall find out with time. I suppose when we talked about credit earlier versus paying a car off, what do you look for in a good deal with regards to paying it all up front, or with regards to splitting the cost and paying it back for many years? What’s the decision making process on that?

Neel: 

Well, it comes down to a few areas. So if it’s a car that you can afford very easily you know you’re talking 5, 10, 15,000 pounds the cheapest ways is to pay it off. You know, if you’ve got the money in the bank done and dusted, why pay interest unnecessarily? I think if it’s affordable, I would pay it off. If it’s a car that you’re using as a white good, for example, a lot of people keep cars for three years. It’s a family car, it’s a commuting car and then they’ll move it on. They’ll move it on. I wouldn’t buy those cars, I would lease them. By the time you bought them, try to sold them, sold them back to the dealer, pay their everything off. There’s not much in it really, because obviously the depreciation is worse than the huge in the first year and doesn’t level up till year 3, 4, 5 anyway. So I, you know I lease a Tesla and it goes through. The business benefiting kind is fantastic. And I know in three years the Tesla will be redundant, the technology and the interface will be redundant. So me that’s a white good. It’s not a passion, it’s something I need and it’s a business expense. So I think if it is a lower amount to pay it off. If it’s a car that you’re going to swap around every couple of years, lease it through the business and your accountant will obviously give you better advice than I can. But if it’s a car that you love and you want to keep it and that is the best way to have any car it’s keep it a long, long time then I would look for HP. As much down as you feel is reasonable maybe 10%, 15% Make sure that you’ve got a really good deal in terms of low interest rates and also the ability to get out of a deal if you need to settle early without penalties. And I think also just be wary of the balloons. Some dealers will put massive balloons at the end so that your affordability is high but you might end up with negative equity. So just be careful, just be aware that it’s got a guaranteed future residual value and then really, once you pay that off, you can refinance or try and pay the car off within five, seven years really, and then keep that car for as long as possible. That’s really the most cost-effective way.

Dr James: 

Fair enough. So a bit of a decision-making process, and maybe what’s right for one person might necessarily be best for another. If I’m gathering that correctly. New or second hand what have you always went for, do you have?

Neel: 

a question. Sorry, James, just repeat that.

Dr James: 

I just said new or second hand, what do?

Neel: 

you no new or second hand Well, definitely well with leasing. It’s new because you get the new car, and I’ve had quite a few new cars. They’re usually a bad idea because you will take the hit. But if it’s a car that you absolutely love and you know you’re going to keep it 10 years, pass it down to your children or it’s a keeper, then you might want the pride or the ownership experience of having it from you. You accept you’ll take the hit on it, but you have no intention of losing it, of selling it on. So I’ve got a new Aston but I don’t expect to sell it, hopefully not for the next 10, 20 years. So I’m quite happy to ride at that residual and I’m fairly certain it’ll come back up and go over what I paid for anyway. So I’m taking long-term view. But ideally you probably either want a one-year-old car which someone has hardly driven so it’s as new that would be my immediate bet and really the bottom of the depreciation curve is three to five years. So again, if you can find a really low mileage car hasn’t been used, one careful driver at the three-year mark it’s probably settling down to 50% of its value by then.

Dr James: 

Fair enough. Depreciation curve, just for anybody who’s listening, who isn’t exactly clear on what that is. I’m guessing that’s when the value is bottomed out over time, as what you said earlier.

Neel: 

Yeah, well, what happens? Basically, as soon as you buy a car you lose the bat. So 20% drops as soon as you sign the document. In the first year you will lose the biggest proportion of that three-year mark. Normally about on an 80 grand car, you’re probably losing 20 grand in the first year. Let’s say, the second year you’ll lose 15, and the third year you’ll lose 10. So an 80 grand will probably be about 40, with what the dealer will offer you and then they’ll put it back up for 55. Now I’m just giving you an average, because some cars hit the 60% bend and some blow. I mean the 60% holders are like McCann, gtses, alpines and there are a few cars that keep their value. But generally you’re always going to lose. So you better off buying at the bottom of the depreciation curve. The problem with that is if you get to like a Ferrari 430, which is probably at the bottom of its depreciation curve, or a Lambo Gallardo, which are about probably 60, 70, 80, now they’re probably not going to go down but you’re probably going to spend 10 grand a year maintaining insurance. Something goes wrong. So what you gain in the loss of depreciation you’re going to have in running costs.

Dr James: 

And surely that doesn’t.

Neel: 

So that’s.

Dr James: 

Oh sorry, I thought you were finished Go on no, no, please, please, James. All I was going to say is surely that doesn’t apply to you know, we talk about these oil cars from the 60s and 70s, like those Chevy’s, you know, the real cruisers from the 60s, from that kind of rock and roll era. They only go up in value because they get scarcer. Is it as simple as that, or have I oversimplified it?

Neel: 

Scarcity is definitely a factor but a desirability, you know. So if it wasn’t really desirable in the first place, it would be quite. It would have to be quite cult following for these cars. So all the 50, 60, 70 supercars, the Mayuras, the Countashes, you know, the old Ferraris, they’re all massive values. I mean, they’re well within most, you know well out of most of our ranges. You know the half a million to 10 million value. So I think, what If you were looking for one of these older cars? Look for something that maybe you had when you as a child or in your teenage. What did you have as a poster car? So what year were you 15, james? I’m trying to work out the years.

Dr James: 

What year was I born?

Neel: 

Yeah, when were you 15? What year were you 15 to 20? What year was I 15? Sorry.

Dr James: 

So I would have been 2006,. I would have been 15.

Neel: 

Okay, so 2006,? If you think of okay, what are the supercars? What were the Porsche’s, the Ferraris, what did you have on your poster? What did you go and look at? I played them all around Turismo.

Dr James: 

So I think I had, you know, Dirty Harry’s car, the Dodge Charger. I thought that was the coolest car, but it wasn’t really from my generation, so I might be very representative of other 15 year olds, but let me think it would have been. Oh, you know what was a cool car For anybody who played Need for Speed on the PlayStation 2, I hope that’s not too obscure a reference. You know the Skyline the Nissan Skyline that was a really cool contemporary car from that era. Or the Toyota Supra. I always thought they were awesome. They were a real, real drive as well and they were pretty powerful cars. So I can imagine those might be the sort of along the lines of what you’re talking about. You know, in years to come, people from my generation who are 40 and 50, got a bit of spare cash and they want something that’s got the nostalgia factor. Those might be those sorts of cars that you made.

Neel: 

Absolutely Well. I’m just looking on fourstarclassicscom, which is sort of an 80s, 90s onwards kind of supercar or normal cars, and there are these old, old cars that you wouldn’t have thought so, in immaculate condition, and this you know 20, 30, 40, they’re above list what they were in the first place. So I’m just looking at a Subaru, talking about Segarali. A nice Subaru Prexa can be 20 to 100 grand plus.

Dr James: 

Oh, there you go. There is the perfect poster boy car from my generation, Actually, not that you mentioned it. My friends like and they’re not.

Neel: 

they might be worth 5, 10 grand now, but actually, if you find a good one, they might be a good niche car to look at. You’re absolutely right.

Dr James: 

Having said that, you know what that is exactly, the car that was the zenith of coolness when I was not age. You’re absolutely right. So I think that that’s going to be one that might be, yeah, you know, kind of appreciate in value as the years go by.

Neel: 

I don’t know, I don’t know, but I think I think generally, if you’re going to look for what goes up, it’s sports cars. So there’s a few hatches that go up, there’s a few saloons that go up, but if you’re looking for something to keep, I would get a two, a two seater For my sake. I like convertibles but they’re really the keepers. Supras are still doing well, but a lot of them being tuned, there’s very few that have been an adorned, but again an original one of those would do really well. So yeah, you kind of want a car that’s been looked after, not messed around with, not repainted, has provenance and the future. Classics are still there to be made. And I was kind of concerned with just sidestepping a little bit Our youngsters, you know, the eight, nine year olds going to like cars in the future because you know we’re all becoming electric, electric cars just hard to invoke the passion without noise and I thought these guys aren’t going to like cars. Maybe the whole value in 20, 30 years is going to go. But when I see my nurses, children and they, you know, and they go to car garages and they’ll go to Goodwood, they, they actually love it. There’s something innate in that car or in that expression of freedom or power or you know, I think freedom when you’re a teenager is your car, isn’t it? Maybe might be your two pass now, but I think cars are going to be there and I think there are future classics to be had, but you’ve got to just buy with a long term in view, I think.

Dr James: 

Yeah, fair enough. One tiny thing. I’ll just throw on top of that From most sort of investing from the point of view in trying to kind of predict what will be trendy in years to come. That would be inherently hard, because in human, human nature is also inherently hard to predict, I’m going to say as well. So we just have to throw that into the ring too. From what I know about the art world, those big art investors they basically just buy so many pieces of art they don’t know which one is going to do well, but it’s the two or three that do do well, that are worth millions, that bring up the average for everything else, and they might have, you know, 997 that are just, you know, not really worth that much. And to me from the you’ll know more about it than me but to me, because cars it’s one of those things that it’s it will just be what we look back and what we considered to be cool at the time, not even necessarily what was cool at the time, in the same vein as older movies like the Shawshank Redemption that got terrible reviews when it came out and now it’s one of the all time classics, I’m going to guess cars is maybe something slightly similar to that.

Neel: 

No, I think it’d be nice to have a poll on that, actually, so I couldn’t answer your question. What I would say, though, is don’t buy for speculation. Buy something you love, because the worst case scenario you have 20, 30 years of joyful motoring, and that’s a reward and an investment in itself, and it will I’m sure it will go up. Might not go up huge amounts, might go up little, but you’re buying the right car, keeping it a long time. You buy something you love. Even a Mazda MX-5 at seven grand gives you so much pleasure, the freedom, the wind in your hair. And those Mazda MX-5s, again, aren’t depreciating and they’re not expensive, so you don’t have to spend loads. Just buy something you like and don’t worry too much about what other people think. Just buy what you like. I like some very quirky cars and I’m considering buying them. They’re not expensive, but I would have one just to enjoy, and it would probably stay the same or go up because there’s a niche car, like in this hand figure-o. I’m sure I’m going to get hated for that, but I quite like these kind of weird cars and I think they’ll be okay and in any mode show that you go along to. In the future, take your car along. It’ll always be a little weird, little niche car. So, I think, again, it’s about buying something you enjoy. The other market we haven’t really talked about, james, is probably the flipping market and the getting your name down, and that was a huge thing probably last five years, where we were talking about relationships with dealers. If you were lucky enough to have bought 10 cars from Porsche et cetera, at the right cars and sold them back to them, they might feel that you were lucky enough to buy something like a GT3 RS, gt2 RS from them and you could flip those cars. The problem is you’re spending so much money with them to get those cars. You’re almost worth just paying the premium and getting one if you really want one yourself, but that’s another way to do it. That market has gone but it’s still there for Ferrari and Porsche. So let’s say you love Porsche. Again, find a Porsche dealer you can build a relationship with, although it is hard with Porsche because they really do come and go. I don’t think their dealer network is great and I’ve been to seven or eight of them. But again, if you’ve got a good Porsche guy, start buying a Cayman or a Boxster or a Cayenne or a McCann and build up that relationship over the years so that when the cars come out that are desirable, you can get them and I think Porsche somehow, considering they’re an SUV maker, they’re still created a lot of desirability for their sports cars. So I think Porsche is a good brand to get into and I think Ferrari is a good brand to get into also a lot more difficult and possibly Aston as well, with the F1 cars coming out as well. They’re still an underdog really in terms of desirability and what they make. Ferrari and Porsche are still up there. But again, if you like those cars, start off small and build a relationship with a dealer so that you can maybe in 10 years get these cars that are the flip cars, that are the desirable cars.

Dr James: 

What about limited run and special editions, then? Surely they represent a bit more of an investment. They’re more viable because there’s gas and there’s only so many of them.

Neel: 

I think, again, it depends. They’re easier to sell, definitely. So if you’d bought one of the Aston Special Edition cars and they make carbon editions, a Bond edition or whatever, when people are buying their cars and there’s 10 cars to sell for sale, yours will sell quicker. So I think Special Editions will do well in that way. And again, it depends on how many were made. Is it one of 10? Is it one of a thousand? Mclaren are doing a lot of Special Editions and there are lots of lots of them. So again, maybe if you had an F1, that’d be a great car, limited edition. But maybe the 600 LT, they made too many of them. And maybe I think 500 or 750 poops and 250 spiders, whatever, too many for the market. But again, I think they’ve bottomed out. So Special Editions definitely worth going for, but it really is a matter of how special, how limited. The other thing that I would say as well, with the finance, as we said earlier, you pertain to, that finance is a much easier thing to get into. One of my groups I’m lucky enough to be in is full of very, very wealthy much wealthier than I am, you know super car owners. I’m just in there as a low end and these car, they they’ve moved up a level and this now the hypercar that they want. Before where you’d have a Special Edition of like a 458 or a Vantage or a 911, they want the hypercar because everyone can buy a 200, 300 gram car not everybody, but it’s getting affordable, whereas before you’d have to have the cash to put down. So actually the cars that are really doing well and again they’re out to our markets are the Laferrari, the Kernigs, the Pagani’s that have really gone up into millions, but again not an easy market to get into. But that’s created from that easy accessibility to finance which has made the big fish have to go higher.

Dr James: 

Yeah, well, interesting one is that when do you think electric cars are at in terms of their comparativeness to petrol cars, in terms of mileage, in terms of an investment, et cetera, et cetera? Have they reached that level where they’re comparable just yet?

Neel: 

Short answer no, but I do love electric cars. You know we were saying earlier that it’s very hard to be passionate about electric cars because of the noise in the field, and that’s true. There is never a long term love relationship. You know, we love our cars with the like family members sometimes, but electric cars don’t invoke that passion. But you love them because of a couple of things the lack of noise is really civilized, the acceleration is phenomenal that can get boring but it’s still great fun. And the efficiency of not having to go to petrol stations touch hydrocarbons. You know, all I got to do is plug it in like my iPhone at the end of the day. So I do think they’re fantastic. I’ve had an i3, which I absolutely love in town, and it was just so good nipping off the lights, going past M3s, getting into the right lane that I needed to. So it’s very efficient for town use and really the only car I’d really recommend for electric car is what is a Tesla. They have got the best supercharger network by far. Having had the i3 and having trouble with charging on longer journeys, the Tesla has been a revelation and really no one’s at their level yet in terms of speed of charging and the range, and in the new Tesla Model S I think, has a 500 mile range. Wow.

Dr James: 

So what is that? I know what is that charging time, then, because I know that they’ve they’ve got the quick charge and then they’ve got the longer charge, and the quick charge offers a compromise in terms of capacity, something like that.

Neel: 

Well, generally if you plug it in and a three pin. If I plug the Tesla in just to the normal wall socket, it’ll take about four days to charge.

Dr James: 

Yeah.

Neel: 

So that’s not good. The hard points on the home charges they will give you about 250 miles range in about seven hours. Okay, at the motorways you’ll probably get about 150 miles in about 30, 40 minutes and at the Tesla supercharger that’s probably in about 15 minutes. So you basically want to park your car, go and have a coffee, come back.

Dr James: 

I’ve got plenty enough for the rest of my journey 15 minutes for a full charge, then.

Neel: 

Not a full, but it would give me probably another 150 miles, which would be enough. And the new Porsche Taycan has an amazing supercharging lithium type battery which is minutes. But there’s not many of those charges around, but they’re coming. Look, we’re all going to have to have electric cars. It’s the way it’s headed, whether it’s right or wrong. I still think there’s a lot of merit in petrol hybrids and the petrol engine isn’t very efficient. There’s a long way to go with that. So hopefully and I think Porsche making a synthetic fuel which makes a great idea as well. So I think electric cars make a lot of sense if it’s your lifestyle, if you can charge it at home, if you’re not doing huge commutes, and whether you believe the environment. I mean, I love not having the smog and all those kinds of things. If you go to Delhi, you see what electric cars could do. That would be fantastic. In terms of investments, none of them are investments, but one thing I’d like to buy, if I could, or consider, was the original Tesla Roadster. It was based on a Lotus and really it wasn’t brilliant, but it was the first Tesla and Tesla has such a huge brand value globally. I remember when they first showed their first car at Salon Privé and nobody knew who they were, so I think that could be a keeper or an interesting piece for a long period of time. They’re probably 5280 grand.

Dr James: 

It was the first mass market electric Roadster, I believe, wasn’t it?

Neel: 

It wasn’t really mass market. It’s probably the first Roadster. There were some little city cars that could get up hills before then. But the problem with the Tesla is if you need a new battery it’s 15 grand. So there is a maintenance aspect. But I kind of think as a hunt, maybe even in left hand drive. Maybe you can live in Silicon Valley or live. Maybe I think the Tesla Roadster might be the only electric car I’d keep for a long time.

Dr James: 

Yeah, because even if it wasn’t quite the first, I think it’s the one that a lot of people think was one of the first, or it was definitely marketed in that way, so it has that association. When you mentioned about Lotus, are they still around? I remember those. Yeah, they’re still performing on one team. I used to love that car, the Elise.

Neel: 

I mean Lotus is doing well. I think they’ve been bought out by a Chinese company I’m not sure if it’s Keely, I’d have to ask Zaid but Lotus have done really well in their niche, which is very light, brilliant handling, sports cars, and a lot of the engineers I mean Aston Nick, one of the chief engineers, because everyone knows you want handling go to Lotus. They’re a brilliant car. They’re not going to make too many of the old school anymore. So again, an exige or something would be a keeper, if you like. If you’re very much into track cars, they’re the ones to get day in, day out. But the new ones are looking. I mean they’ve made a £2 million electric one and they’re probably going to be going electric sports car way. I think. Same with Alpine. I think Alpine is going to go electric sports car way. But no, lotus, really it’s a shame. I think they should be much bigger than they are. They should be at the Aston Martin range, because I grew up with the Bond as free cars and you know the Lotus Etna as a concept car. I really wish they had the investment a long time ago, but they’re still quite niche. The other thing I was going to say, james, another interesting thing to think about is car registration plates. I made a mistake again in 1997. I could have bought NWE1, which would have suited my name, and it was £6,000. And I thought that’s a lot of money for just some numbers. You know, it’s just an ego thing. I don’t really need it and that plate is probably worth 80, 90, maybe six fingers now. So that market has kind of gone. But it is always worth looking at the new car regs. They release them every couple of months and what I try and do, which is if I know a future car is coming with a model number or something, I’ll try and see if I can find those car registrations that haven’t been released but maybe pertinent to a future car or something that’s gone under the radar. And common names work really well, though numbers work well. So it’s human nature that we like to put our names on things. So I think car registration plates by one under a grand that suits you and if you get the right one I think that’s a keeper as well.

Dr James: 

I did see a Range Rover not that long ago, maybe about six months ago, and the registration was Laura, except the A was replaced with a four. And I thought to myself that is pretty much that’s not quite the original Laura, but it’s not far off and surely that might be worth more than the Range Rover itself. So yeah, in terms of an investment, well, if you say there were, you know, five or four figures, as you said, however, many years ago, I can imagine there are about five and I, and that’s surely a solid one. But again, it’s just getting the right one, which is a bit of a skill in an art form. I suppose, neil, you’ve done a brilliant job of describing the ins and outs of what we have to be conscious of in the van cars. If someone was just tuning in for the last five minutes and you had to summarize everything you said really succinctly, and they were thinking about buying a new car and they were a dentist as well why would you summarize that?

Neel: 

I would say again don’t get too involved in the hype, don’t get too excited. Take a long term view. Develop relationship with a dealer. Buy what you like. Fundamentally at least, you enjoy it. Keep it a long time, pay it off reasonably quickly, drive it enough to enjoy. Don’t just leave it in the garage and keep it cared and maintained, and that car will give you so much pleasure, give you so much opportunity. It’ll be the first car you pick your little kid up from, taken to school, all the memories that are in there, and it should reward you in the long term with the financial return. But don’t do it at the sake of pushing yourself beyond your limits. There’s no need to do that. Don’t get involved with the hype.

Dr James: 

Awesome, Short and sweet. I spoke earlier as well about your other interest outside of dentistry, and that is indemnity. Would you like to just talk a little bit more about that and how you help us dentists get indemnified?

Neel: 

Thanks, James, thanks for mentioning that. Yes, turbine was there to help dentists. And PDI, which is professional dental indemnity, is pretty much down to my own frustration with my own provider of how poor they were and how people we were suffering with the GDC and things. I wanted to make a change and luckily I met the right people and we’ve got some great products now and some more stuff coming. So really happy to talk to anybody about indemnity, even if they’re not looking to change, but they just want to be better educated about the decisions. Please give me a call. It’s Neil at professionaldentalindemnitycom. You can message me on Facebook.

Dr James: 

Awesome stuff. Thank you so much, neil. That was a really informative episode and not something that we would traditionally think of when we first think of the word investing, I guess but definitely really important. Thank you so much for giving up your spare time to come and talk to us today.

Neel: 

Absolutely pleasure. Thank you again so much for having me, and it’s quite an interesting topic.

Dr James: 

Definitely definitely. Thank you so much, neil. I’ll let you get on with your day Absolute pleasure.

Neel: 

I will speak very soon, I hope. Take care.

Dr James: 

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