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Dentists Who Invest

Braving The Boardroom with Dr. Paul Midha

Full Transcript

James: 

What is up team? Welcome back to the Dennis who Invest podcast, and you know what every podcast episode is special, but this one is super, duper, duper special and contemporaneous today because I have none other than Famous Face, shall we say. Paul Middha sat in front of me. This is currently on TV on the Apprentice, and we’re all on the edge of our seats to see how Paul is doing and progressing in the series week in, week out. And, of course, it is important to preface everything that we’re about to say today with the fact that, contemporaneously, we are currently on episode number five which is actually going to be broadcast tonight, as we’re shooting this podcast on the 29th of February 2024. So very important preface everything that we’re about to say with there will be no spoilers for anybody who’s listening, who that may or may not be on your mind. We’re going to say that right here, right now. This is going to be about Paul who he is, his journey, what led him to the go on the Apprentice and his plans for the future. And I’m super, super, super, duper excited for this episode today. Paul, how are you?

Dr. Paul: 

I’m really good. I mean, life’s just going a million miles per hour right now. I’m not going to lie to you, it’s literally one thing after another. But when you reached out for this podcast, it was something that I really wanted to do, because I do believe and we were discussing this previously that a lot of dentists come out of dental school. There’s an abundance of clinical education out there, but in terms of business or financial education, especially when it comes to the specialty of dentistry, there’s nothing really out there and people have to kind of ad hoc learners. You go along Like whether you should be a limited company, whether you stay self employed as a sole trader, and for me, it was something I really struggled with of how do I make sure that I’m making the most out of what I’m earning and what do I need to do for the future in order to protect myself as well, because if you could think about these things early, then you’re going to safeguard yourself 100% net.

James: 

And this is the thing, and I always preach this on the podcast episodes Money’s not the be all and end all. It’s merely a means to an end, to perpetuate your goal and mission on the surf, whatever it is, and have more freedom, which is a beautiful way to do it.

Dr. Paul: 

I think if you chase money, you’ll find that the if you think that money is going to bring you happiness, then you’ll find that that is unfortunately unlimited, because you’ll never reach the endpoint and you’ll constantly keep chasing. I mean, you might earn 2k a month, then you’ll want to earn 4k a month, you’ll earn 4k a month, then you want to earn 6k a month, and it’s so forth, so forth. It never ends. I think what, what I truly personally value, are the experiences that I have with the close relationships around me, and I think that’s the most fulfilling thing you can ever have. This has gone quite deep, quite quick.

James: 

Wow, I know you know what. You know what, though? Right, because when I am fortunate enough to interview people on the podcast a lot of people who I interview, they share the same beliefs and they share the same thoughts and perspective and money that I do, because they’re people that have made progress in that world, are you with me? And it’s important to remember that not everybody has had that opportunity yet, which is actually part of the reason that I made Dempsey Invest. It’s about education. It’s about helping everybody understand these concepts and principles, not so they can change, but at least they have the choice as to whether or not to adopt them into their philosophy and into their life, which is a really good knowledge and what they do with that knowledge is their choice. Well then, you’re empowered, aren’t you? But? Anyway, Paul, it got real deep, real fast and I love that stuff. I love that stuff.

Dr. Paul: 

I love it as well. I could talk about that all day, so maybe we should not go off on that tangent.

James: 

Let’s come back for air. Let’s come back for air for two seconds Because, paul, there’ll be a lot of people who are watching the apprentice and they’ve got to know you a little bit through watching the series and what have you, and people that will have known you before the apprentice. Of course, maybe it might be nice to do a little bit of bio about Paul, just generally, so that we can bring everybody up to speed. I think that would be wonderful. First of all, first important thing to say is Dr Paul is one of us dentists who is listening to the show. He’s a dentist just like us, which is really cool.

Dr. Paul: 

Yeah, so guys, my name is Dr Paul Midder, from Leeds. I went to uni of Sheffield, graduated in 2018, done a postgraduate diploma in restorative and aesthetic dentistry distinction level and I’m the owner of the Vici Dental Group, which are two dental practices in Leeds itself. I used to work at Square Mild Dental Centre in central London, commuting every week, which was not easy, I can tell you that, but that was the thing that really changed my kind of whole clinical experience. Let’s say More so, the course director for the Manchester Smile Dental Academy, where we run multiple diplomas for, you know, 100 delegates per weekend. Education, clinical dentistry, research, networking the things that I’m really passionate about, and it’s kind of what’s led me to this point here.

James: 

Hey, that’s cool man and I think. Well, correct me if I’m wrong there’s kind of two phase there’s two arms to our education. For me, whenever it comes to success in dentistry, the first one is the dentistry itself and then the second one is like business or recognizing how we can maximize the leverage that we can obtain with this first skill set, and they actually both complement each other. I don’t think you could put that second skill set in a box. You touched upon it just there. Networking, getting yourself out there, running courses, etc. All of those things. Public speaking is like throwing petrol on the bonfire whenever it comes to a lot of those things. So you touched upon it just there, which was wonderful. Can I just ask what planted that seed in your head that made you realize how powerful this stuff is?

Dr. Paul: 

Yeah. So for me, I came across two very incredible people that are extremely important in my life to this day, jin and Kish from Smile, and I met them and I saw what they were doing and I realized and do you know, the first thing they ever said to me? They said, paul, the most important thing is to be the best clinical dentist that you can be for yourself. That’s the most important thing, and then everything, but everything else you can’t just, you can’t just do that, though. That’s one, as you said, one branch of a tree you could say. You also need to make sure that you put yourself out there enough to network, get to know other professionals, because that’s how you’re going to grow as a dental professional overall. You being a dental professional isn’t just subjugated to your clinical dentistry. It is about everything that you’re doing. It’s are you attending events, are you going to conferences, are you learning from peers, are you involved within the community? All of these things are so important in bringing what you should be as a dental professional.

James: 

Yeah, I think that’s beautiful. They actually compliment each other, and I can remember a time back in the day where I thought being the best version of yourself when it came to being a dentist was just to understand as much about teeth as you possibly can, and I really feel like it’s easy to fall into that rabbit hole teeth, tongue, vision, I call it. I was definitely that person.

Dr. Paul: 

And the same same. I was that person as well, but then you realize there’s actually so much more to it. That is the core foundation, and that foundation needs to be really strong. But then you got to start building a building.

James: 

Awesome. Well, you know what? It’s so great to hear you say that, because when it’s delivered via someone else, not just me, then you have to ask people to say the same thing.

Dr. Paul: 

You know they tell the truth. Oh there you go.

James: 

They compliment each other. That’s true as well.

Dr. Paul: 

Awesome.

James: 

So tell me this. So you came out of university associate dentist and then you met Jin and Kish, who are out there in the dental world. Right, we’ve seen them, smile Academy, smile group, all of that. And then you thought to yourself right, there’s actually a little bit more to it than teeth, which I totally agree with my friend. Big part of the message to dentists and investors to say and then, you thought to yourself oh wow, my eyes are open. What was the next move? What was the next move?

Dr. Paul: 

Yeah. So when I realized that, I thought I, when I left university, I did FD training and I worked two days a week in an NHS practice and two days a week in a private practice and I was building a list in my NHS practice and I was just exhausted. Every day I’d come home I’d be exhausted. I mean, I was seeing 40 50 patients a day and I was just really struggling with that kind of work life balance. I was constantly thinking about Patients that I’ve seen that day in terms of I’ve I’ve done the right treatment, should I’ve done this, constantly overthinking, and I thought to myself well, I’ve realized at that point that I’m not at that level where I should be in my career and the only way I’m going to do it is by going on courses. And also I need that kind of in-house mentorship for someone to be able to guide me to the person that I want to be. And then, so that was six months worth. And then in February 2020 and I was a really important date, february 2020, yeah, I know, yeah, I got a call from Nick Sethi in central London and he goes poor and he is an incredible condition, by the way Abs and him and his brother, sanjay Sethi incredible clinicians and said pause, you know what? We want? To offer you a role at Square Mildental for two days a week, and it was too good of an opportunity to turn down, so I left my jobs. And then March 2020 happened and, obviously, the lockdown happened. So I ended up with literally I had nothing and nothing. I was an earning, I wasn’t doing anything, so and obviously, what bills to pay? Right? So I did the test and trace. I was doing that for like 10 hours a day, just just to be able to kind of save up for anything that I wanted to do. But what I did at the same time, when the first lockdown was over, I started locum in loads of different practices and what I realized was what makes a good practice a good practice and what are the things? Because sometimes, in order to find the right practice for you, you have to understand, you have to go through what you didn’t like about certain practices. So I did that for quite a while and eventually that led me to buy my own practice in August 2021, and that’s when. That’s when the journey really starts.

James: 

I’m intrigued to learn about that next leg as well, but I’m actually so pleased that you paused in for just two seconds, because the reason why was I wanted to jump in with an analogy and what you just said. You know the how you were saying that you have to basically kiss a few frogs in order to find your prince. Tron, so he’s ever it comes to dental practice a lot. This is the analogy that I love, right? How do you know that your favorite meal in your favorite restaurant is your favorite meal in your favorite restaurant? Not tried anything else? You’ve got to try everything else on the menu. Bro, right, you got a contact. It’s so true. Everything else is the same, anyway, man. Anyway, I’m intrigued to hear about the next leg.

Dr. Paul: 

No, like one. One thing that I always do and this is something I pride myself on I always try and transmutate anything that negative that happens and I try and turn it into a positive, because things don’t happen to as they happen for us. Either it’s a lesson or it’s a blessing, and that mindset has always carried me through. When I took over my the city center practice and leads, I Literally had 100 pound left in my bank account and I had nothing. I saved all my money for the deposit, gave it all away, and that was. That was hard times. But I had a composite bonding patient come in and I said do you mind coming back in a month? I just need to be able to afford the materials. I just told us, right, I should say, yeah, fine, no worries. And so I was there, it went over. That was quite a quite a moment where I thought have I done the right thing? And the practice was, let’s say, quite a classical style of practice. And you know, then I went through a refurb and but at the same time I was still working in London, so I was still doing two days a week in London and three days a week at this practice, because I still realized that I Can learn. There’s only so much you can learn from yourself. You learn the most by learning from other people’s failures or other people’s mistakes, and you know one thing about Nick, for example he’s so open about the mistakes that he’s made in the past and he taught me a lot in regard to that, so I wanted to keep that going for a bit. But yeah, commuting down to Central London every week for two years was Was tiring, to say the least. But again, what I’m not Respecting, yeah, and not not quite where you are, dubai, but maybe one day.

James: 

That’s the next leg. That’s the next.

Dr. Paul: 

Yeah, another leg. Yeah, hopefully soon. That’s the fourth leg or something. There we go. Love it, my man Cool.

James: 

So you set up the practice. There’s a bit of a squeeze and this is what you were saying as well. You know these like tough things that we go through. You know tough inverted commas because actually the reason they feel tough Is because we’re gaining wisdom. So you can take. You can take that to the net, because here’s the thing Right, you know, the stuff that you do day to day was literally once upon a time tough to you, but you never would have learned how to negotiate that until you poof through that, but you with me. So you actually gain skills and it was in the knowledge through doing that, yeah, so what I’m saying is that that process is actually how we fit you know this stuff already, but it’s more for the basis.

Dr. Paul: 

Nice to hear again. It’s kind of taking it to the next level, isn’t it right?

James: 

Because if you can literally reframe that, not only is something tough, but actually is something in which you’re learning. And here’s the thing you can take that to the next level and say, actually Maybe I should seek those situations out to a degree, because I’m actually becoming better at improving. Just another way of looking at that, I really like it’s a really cool thing to remind ourselves of, and those sorts of situations Anyway, you were saying Paul, practice started hundred pounds in the bank account Can ends me what happens.

Dr. Paul: 

And so then I had a vision. You know, I knew exactly what I needed to do. From the experiences that I learned, I knew that I needed to utilize the clear line of booming market at the time as well. So I started doing ads and things like that to get the practice going, and so I bought the practice for 175,000 pounds. That was the value, and 15 minutes later it was valued at 900,000 pounds Just because I quadrupled the turnover. We went from three members of staff, including myself, to 20 members of staff, and we just kept growing and growing, and I think the main thing for me that I learned was you’ve got to be the right members for your team. You know, each member of my team is a reflection of myself, and it’s so important to be able to delegate things, because you can’t do it all yourself. You can’t and that’s something that, at the start, I really tried to do and you end up burning yourself out. So now we’re at the point where I’ve got people In a, in a hierarchy setup where you know they just do their roles so well, and what’s nice is they treat the business as their own, and it’s beautiful to see at times. So even when I’m not there, you know it’s still running a hundred percent efficiency. So yeah, if I give one advice to anyone, you’ve got to have the right team around you, otherwise you’re not gonna go anywhere in life.

James: 

Love that pearl. It’s very true, higher, higher. Wait, what way around is it higher so far? Fast, something along those lines.

Dr. Paul: 

Yeah, that’s that one. Actually that’s good one.

James: 

Oh yeah.

Dr. Paul: 

Next time in the morning I use that. Hey, mr.

James: 

Sugar. Do you know something?

Dr. Paul: 

Yeah.

James: 

I’m sure you’ll really appreciate that as well.

Dr. Paul: 

But yeah, no, that’s, I can’t claim, it’s my own.

James: 

I definitely heard that from somebody at some stages. It’s a saying that does the rounds was very true. Classics are classics for a reason, right.

Dr. Paul: 

Exactly, exactly, no, I couldn’t agree more.

James: 

So the business is running itself right and I feel like I can anticipate where this is going. That’s when you got that to a level where you’re like right, things are slick, we’re looking good, and the entrepreneur in you was like nah, I want more right.

Dr. Paul: 

You know what I always say lives a bit like, you know, the QRST line, where on an ECG, and if you’re, if you’re plateauing, then you’re almost flat lining. So the key thing is you always got to be growing. So if you ever think you’ve hit that level where you’re starting to get comfortable, that’s when you got to push even harder. So I’m always trying to break ceilings that are present because I think you know you only get life like this once. So it’s time to do things that you know others may have thought was impossible, but you know I am extremely ambitious in that way and the sky is not the limit. I’ll keep going and even with this apprentice, for me Are the way I see it, is this a foundation, is a stepping board. I’ve got loads of plans coming up for the future. So, but let’s track it back. So practice is running well, putting an offer for a second practice as well, with 1.1 million to expand the group and I had this idea. I’ve always had this idea because my dad is very successful in textiles and I always thought that to get good scrubs you got to go, you know, from figs or America or anything like that and shipping fees. Why not create a brand that is high quality, anti-microval, anti-bacterial, etc. Within the UK, with the network that has been amassed. And I thought well, obviously, dentistry is a service-based industry and I’ve learned to do that well over the past five, six years, but I don’t have any experience in a product-based industry. When and it was New Year’s Eve of 2022 I Didn’t go, I didn’t do anything and I saw my laptop on lad Bible actually really enough. And and so the apprentice came up and I just clicked on it. I thought you know what? What’s the worst that could happen? What’s the worst that could happen? Every nothing to lose, everything to gain. So I applied and, yeah, I managed to get in after a rigorous audition process here.

James: 

Wow, and that rest is history. And now you’re on the show.

Dr. Paul: 

Yeah, and then and then. The games truly began after that.

James: 

Okay, cool. Well, listen, I tell you what I like about this podcast. It’s, it’s like a story. This is it right, and you know. You’ve told your story about how you felt, what inspired you and what have you, right up to the point where we got on to the the apprentice and what have you. Let’s talk about the interview process. I’m sorry, not that. Well, just to be clear, the interview process for the candidates as in, before they make it on the show. I mean, yeah, he said it was rigorous, how does it look?

Dr. Paul: 

The well, the the first round was Was kind of mini stages. So there’s 15 of us in a room and they go okay, stand up for 15 seconds and explain why you should be Lord sugar’s next business partner in front of everyone. So then if you make it to the next mini stage, someone takes you to the lift and if you go up the lift, that’s when you made it through to the next stage. If you go down the lift, then you know you’re out of the building. So it’s very dramatic, very, very dramatic, and and you’re waiting for the person to see which button they press, and sometimes they they took the piss, they go out, a bit like when Lord sugar does his fingers. A bit is a bit like that. But second stage was this was an interesting one because it was like a three minute mini interview and the guy goes tell me something about yourself that people wouldn’t expect. And I just said well, I can body pop, which is like a Form of break dancing, and he goes go, go, straight up, go straight up, yeah, uh. So that was a bit of a. Finally that skill came to use. I’ve never had a use for it, so came in handy. Third round this one was 20 minutes with a producer and With one of Lord sugar’s current business partners, and you have to explain your business plan and they’re asking you very in-depth questions, um, including you know what your ebit die is predicted to be? Uh, very almost. The only way I could describe it is if you did a business studies oski, that’s the only way I could describe it. Um, and Once we’ve done that, then we had to do the final stage. Bear in mind this has been like 12 hours up until this point, um, where you know they’re just asking you loads of random questions to see how you react under pressure. Um, and one thing about myself is I do not react under pressure, I’m fine. Um, we’re always quite chilled, quite laid back guy. Um, so I always take my time when I’m thinking about answers. You probably see that in the couple of episodes. Um, I’m not going to say anything outrageous for no reason, so yeah, respect my man, that’s cool.

James: 

Well, do you know what right?

Dr. Paul: 

that’s just the first round, by the way that’s just the first round just the first round.

James: 

Yeah well, do you know what I could hear when you were speaking? Then there was almost a little bit of just seeing if you had a personality somewhat yeah, yeah, there’s that body part. Okay, you can go straight up, you’re cool. Right, you can dance, yeah, you know which is awesome and that’s fine, because they want TV, don’t they? But then the second part is the EBITDA of your business. Because, dennis, we do not get, we get. We barely get taught about EBITDA and demonstrate before even EBITDA in an actual business.

Dr. Paul: 

You know, for our safe business in other businesses, what I meant so it’s interesting that you say that, actually, because I had never heard of EBITDA in dental school, but it’s actually the most important thing to know when it comes to dental practices. Everything is value or just general business. Everything is valued through EBITDA and you need to know what multiplier is, depending on what model it is, depending on what the valuation should be, and that is a very, very important skill that I think every dentist should know let me tell you one thing I learned about and I don’t want to make this podcast about me, but it’s more for the benefit of the listeners.

James: 

You know, ebitda in dentistry, where it’s like between, it’s between like four and eight really, for lots of downpacks is typically at least that’s what the brokers say. You know and that’s what a part yeah, I’d agree.

Dr. Paul: 

I’d say like on a principle led model. So if the principle is putting the earnings back into the practice, about four times EBITDA, but on an associate led model, so there’s no principle. The principle takes out his earnings, then I would say it’s about eight times.

James: 

I’d agree yeah, yeah, but yeah. So here’s the thing. Actually that’s one of the luxuries of dentistry. Did the EBITDA actually quite high relative to lots of businesses? You know, from what I see, you know most businesses will say it’s just like a solopreneur and a few people who help them.

Dr. Paul: 

They’re lucky if they get like two EBITDA yeah, no, it’s gonna say. Usually it’s just EBITDA straight, he didn’t get a multiplier or just EBITDA straight.

James: 

There is no multiple yeah, you’re lucky if you get two right and it’s the more and more you can move towards the actual business end of the skill where it runs itself is, the higher the multiples become, which is why associate led practice have higher multiples and owner operator led me with me, but anyway. So to bring that back to what you were saying, the EBITDA of your business proposal. That’s why there’s so many. What I’m getting at is there’s layers to that and it’s complicated.

Dr. Paul: 

I just dropped it, but it’s actually. It’s a drop in the ocean, you could say, because there are many, many layers to that there is man okay cool, so they must have liked what you said whenever it came to the numbers and what have you.

James: 

So you’ve done your research. You’ve also put some time into the business proposal.

Dr. Paul: 

Like a lot of time, a lot a lot of time, a lot of time, and time was very limited at that point as well. But you know, at the end of the day, if you’re going on this, you always got to make sure that you’ve bulletproofed everything. There’s no point going in half-hearted, especially when it comes to this sort of process cool man, awesome.

James: 

Well, here’s the thing you’ve given us a taster of the pre the interview process prior to becoming a candidate, and I’m sure we could probably talk like 10, 20 more minutes about those subsequent rounds, but I feel like there’s enough in there for everybody to get a little bit of a flavor for what it’s like which is one round as I was.

Dr. Paul: 

Literally just one round is a lot more rounds to it, so yeah holy moly.

James: 

We can probably make a podcast about those, but I know literally one podcast about that. I reckon. So it’s on anyway. But you know what let’s skip ahead to. When you got the yes response, how did that look? Was it like a letter in the post one day?

Dr. Paul: 

so it was a zoom chat like this actually, and you know we’re just talking and I remember the head of producers just going you know what, paul, unfortunately this time around you’re gonna need to take some time off work because you’re gonna be coming on the Apprentices this season. And I couldn’t, I couldn’t believe it, honestly. I it was like imagine everything in life that you’ve done just boiling into one point that every experience you’ve ever done has led to one point in life, and everything just felt so surreal, golden ecstasy. I can’t even you for it, I can’t even just give enough words or super evatives to be able to describe that feeling. That experience, and to be able to share that with the people that I love the most as well, was a joy in itself. So yeah incredible.

James: 

Hey, man, that’s a once-in-a-lifetime moment. It was it. Well, I’ll never forget it. Wow, okay, you know what’s funny? The pageantry of the show. It doesn’t even stop when the cameras are off. They’re having fun with the elevator buttons. They’re teasing you they’re doing it all they’re having fun. It’s like the ethos of the ball flipping organization.

Dr. Paul: 

But it’s just kind of funny, isn’t it really it’s not even just for the cameras.

James: 

There’s kind of like a little bit of horse that was just because they wanted to build some suspense.

Dr. Paul: 

They wanted to do it so for their own amusement, I guess. But fair play, I’ll probably do the same.

James: 

So it’s, it’s too juicy, it’s dangling right there, exactly.

Dr. Paul: 

Anyway, anyway, anyway okay, cool, so listen.

James: 

So they said yes and then presumably they waste you off the London flipping Harry Potter, hogwarts. Ask something along the lines right, whirlwind, then they put you in that house, right? Is that how it works?

Dr. Paul: 

yeah no, so I’m not too dissimilar. So once we had to do three days of isolation, which probably the longest three days that I’ve ever experienced in my life, because you couldn’t really go outside. You have to make sure you didn’t get ill, basically. So obviously COVID was still right when you’re getting COVID tests as well. So if you were COVID tested positive, you’d be off, which, yeah, it was quite scary actually when. So then it came to the day, the day, the apprentice day, and we had to go to the boardroom first. I remember I was last in and we the producer goes look, you’re all gonna get your chance with Lord sugar. This is your time to impress him. Say what you need to say. And I remember going in there just seeing Lord sugar, karen and Tim just across the boardroom, and I got a massive imposter syndrome. I’ll be honest, I thought what am I doing? Why have I done this? What am I doing? I’m? It was because everything was just so new. There’s no comfortableness to it whatsoever. And when he let that, when he told us about that we’re going to the Highlands for the first task, I was so nervous, so nervous, and luckily nobody decided to be PM, and then we got whisked away to the Highlands, so we hadn’t been to the house or anything at this point. Because that that’s the treat you get if you win the task or if you survive the first task.

James: 

Wow. So they don’t even tell you this stuff before they enter your room. So when?

Dr. Paul: 

you guys react it’s pure, so much of it is real, like it’s all pure reactions, and the level of stress that you’re going through during the task because you’re just trying to think how am I going to make the best out of this house? What role do I need to do? How am I going to do it well, but also how could this go wrong? How can I avoid it getting to that point? And is all these thoughts going around your mind constantly while the camera is pointing at your face?

James: 

So it’s authentic that part it’s those years authentic reactions 100%, 100%.

Dr. Paul: 

So when we, when we, when it all went wrong in the Highlands, those were those authentic reactions.

James: 

So yeah, they do drop me in at the door with those tasks. So right, you’re up against it, yeah you are really up against it.

Dr. Paul: 

You got what like, for example, we were talking about the virtual escape room. We actually create a whole virtual escape room over two days. There’s something done, usually over two years, so with no experience in that sort of technology, but you just got to try and put your front foot forwards and just go for it really.

James: 

My favorite part of the virtual escape room episode was when the the interviewers gave Asif a moment to laugh along with them.

Dr. Paul: 

Yeah, I think it said it was surreal. They could have been a whole different story. I mean, we might not have won that. So credit to him. Thank you for doing that.

James: 

You know what respect? Yeah, it just it tickled me because he was, he was. They said, oh, you know, it’s a joke, right, and then he seemed to. Well, he was like nah, it’s not, it’s not a joke, this is like deadly serious. And then there was a little bit of a disconnect at that stage.

Dr. Paul: 

But it was just quite funny.

James: 

But then I think his teammates they jumped in and saved them and helped them, didn’t they?

Dr. Paul: 

The thing is, you know, you know when you’re like under that sort of pressure as well, you don’t, you’re not almost thinking, you’re almost like. You almost just trying to stay to your own script, in a way, like this is what we’ve done, this is what I’m trying to push. It’s almost very hard to adapt to what, how the surroundings are adapting towards you. So I can understand that moment.

James: 

I can, yeah, okay, yeah, no, I hear you and that’s the, that’s a good yeah. That puts it into context. Really, doesn’t it snowing? You know, you’re absolutely spot on. You’re absolutely spot on. But yeah, no, so, okay, cool so you’ve got the tasks, you find out there, and then on the day and there’s absolutely no brief whatsoever beforehand they just tell them in there in the boardroom.

Dr. Paul: 

Yeah, yeah, you get a little bit of information after the boardroom about you know the, the, the market of what you’re going into. So because otherwise you’d have no idea. So you get a little bit of information, but you only get that information at that time, so you have to rely on your memory to be able to serve it well. When it comes to like pitching and things like that, yeah, when you’re when you’re pitching, that is the most nerve wracking thing you can ever do. I mean, I thought presenting your composite filling to a consultant was nerve wracking, but when you’re pitching in front of business experts about an industry that you don’t really have much idea about, that is a whole new level of nerve wracking. And when we did the pitch on task three, they didn’t show it, but I was actually talking for about eight minutes Just trying to keep it going because because the game was that long to be there. So you’re only ever going to see like a snippet of what actually happens. But I think so far all the episodes have, you know, they’ve been very fairs and they’ve just been condensed naturally, because you can’t put three days out there. So they’re all very true to the way it’s actually happened.

James: 

I see Awesome. Well, yeah, from what I could see in that episode, you did a good job of being the narrator of the medieval version.

Dr. Paul: 

Had to make it entertaining. It was not entertaining the game, so I thought, oh, let me put on a little bit of a. I was doing like a lecture, so I thought let’s just make this as entertaining as possible.

James: 

But listen, bill. That’s a skill in itself. The show must go on.

Dr. Paul: 

So flipping hats off to you, yeah no, I finally got, finally got first win under the belt. I didn’t have to go to the losers cafe, which was nice, because that is horrible. No man or woman should ever have to go to that losers cafe, because it’s. It’s your. You’re so shattered, you’re so tired from everything that’s gone on and basically your role is to try and make sure that you don’t get thrown under the bus and make sure you slip it in there of what everyone else has done as well. So you’ve got to be really alert, you’ve got to be really like it’s a game of chess and you’ve got to be three moves ahead, totally.

James: 

Okay, cool. So when you’re in that boardroom and let’s say you’ve completed the task and the chips are just going to fall where they may have the stage, it’s done Right. You come into the boardroom Karen, tim and Lord sugar, and they’re all sat there.

Dr. Paul: 

The key, do you know? I realize the key is you’ve got to chime in at the right time. You’ve got you. If you’re too overbearing, you’re opening yourself up to liability. If you chime in, get your point across at the right time, then. So saying too much will do you over, saying too little will do you. You’ve got to find a balance. That’s my little nugget.

James: 

I like that. Speaking as an art man Big time man. Big time. Less is more.

Dr. Paul: 

This last task, which was episode four, jersey. That was a really good one. I just thought you know what? Now it’s time to make a statement Take no prisoners. And I had a, because I did two negotiations on this task and I just thought, no matter what, I’ve got to beat the other team. The other team got really strong negotiators. So I went to town and use all the skills I learned in dentistry and things like that, so all the communication core skills that I’ve been on in the past to try and get those down as possible.

James: 

Hey, sweet. Well, you know what Truth be told. So as we just to reiterate what we were saying earlier, we’re shooting this episode this is podcast episode right here on the eve of episode number five, which is I don’t know how much I can say Episode number five.

Dr. Paul: 

So we’re allowed to say whatever we want, because this is going to get released tomorrow.

James: 

Got you Okay. So, it’s on, it’s on electric cars, right, isn’t it?

Dr. Paul: 

Yeah, so we go down, and I’m a big Formula one fan, I love Formula one, so team Lewis Hamilton’s all the way and I’m going to go to. Hopefully I get to go to Silverstone this year. But when I saw the Formula e-cars I was like this is my task. This is my task. I’m definitely going to be PM for this. But I got switched over from team Nexus to team Supreme and so it was kind of me against Trey as PMs and I had a vision. I had a vision, a really strong vision. I thought this is how we’re going to do the. Basically, if petrol cars are not going to be a thing from 2040. I think the government said or I know it keeps changing then Formula e could be one of the biggest motorsports in the world. So I wanted to play on the fact that this could be the next Formula one in that regard and really push the fact that our ethos is about reducing air pollution, etc. I had a really clear vision, but then it all went wrong. It’s a difficult thing because I know this is getting released tomorrow, but I also don’t want to ruin it for you. I kind of want to keep the surprise for you as well. I said it in the boardroom as well. As an individual, I don’t think I deserve to be there, but as the project manager, I’m in charge of everything, so I 100% deserve to be there.

James: 

It is what it is, man. But listen, bro, the biggest thing I can say respect. Anybody is putting themselves out there with me and when I say that, going on the show, putting a hand up to me, to PM all of that, I don’t even know how the episode goes. By the way, for anybody who’s listening to this, I haven’t even seen episode four, man. I don’t know what’s going on, james. What does that make me as a host? Come on, that’s dropping the ball big time right there. But yeah, I have seen one highlight of episode four and it’s something about clams and oysters, Oysters.

Dr. Paul: 

yeah, that’s what it is right.

James: 

And, of course, nord Sugar knows about oysters because he’s a man of refined taste, right, and he’s asking you these questions like but were the oysters opened? And he knows the price of oysters is off the top of his head and I’m like he’s a man of culture, he’s not a front, he is actually like that. But yeah, I saw a clip and then I got a good vibe that Nord Sugar paid you a compliment on that. So guess what? I’m going to watch that episode tonight and then I’m going to watch episode number five.

Dr. Paul: 

No, no, definitely Do you know. You touched on Nord Sugar there. He is a very, very intelligent man, very, very, very intelligent man, and he’s so extremely successful and is someone that you know I look up to. So just to be able to hear his words of wisdom in the board, because it’s interesting, because when he’s deliberating he’s almost teaching you how he thinks and how he’s processed the information of the task, and that’s how I would learn. So as the task go on, I just kept learning from all the way from task one to task five. I kept learning what his thought process was and how I can adapt my own thought process to someone of his calibre. So just being in that boardroom itself was an amazing learning experience for me.

James: 

That’s a good ethos, man Rather winning, or we’re learning right here in all of these things. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, awesome, love that, okay cool. So one more cue about the show. I’ve always just been curious to know this. You know Lord Sugar, right, obviously, when you come and meet him outside of you, meeting him in the boardroom, is he like really a nuff, or is he there like fraternizing with you guys, or how does that work? How is that done?

Dr. Paul: 

No, yeah. So you don’t really see him outside the boardroom at all. He’s a very busy guy, to be fair. He’s a very, very busy guy. So you don’t really see him in the boardroom. You only really see him when he’s presenting tasks and in the boardroom itself. So, yeah, that’s why, when you’re in the boardroom, you try and make the most of it really.

James: 

Love that man. Okay, well, cool. Well, listen, paul, you know what it’s actually. You’ve actually been really generous with knowledge and what have you, whenever you know, with regards to the background of the show, to preface guys for anybody who’s listening to this, I wasn’t actually sure how much we could say. Let’s pull it back to Dennis. Yeah, with the remaining time that we have on this podcast, we talked about how, dennis, well, we both really feel that they can benefit from exploring and expanding outside of dentistry. What would you say to those dentists right here right now, paul? We know how the dental community feel. Lots often. A lot of them feel like they’re trapped within dentistry to a degree. Lots of them love it, but lots of people feel like they have more to give, but they just don’t know how. And there’s a lot of trials and tribulations. Let’s say that in dentistry and making it all like it’s all bad it’s definitely not, but what I do? But at the same time, I do want to speak to people who feel like this, because this is a pain point and I was like this once upon a time.

Dr. Paul: 

So I want to be like it. I explained to you when I was in my first job I felt that way as well. But I want to be direct to these people.

James: 

Yeah, I want to be direct, right, listen, you’ve obviously stepped. You’ve seen that, that reality, you’ve stepped outside of it. What would you say to those people, man?

Dr. Paul: 

You know, one thing I’ll always say is you are only limited by yourself. If you feel like you’re going to work and you’re feeling that anxiety before you go to work, then you know either you’re not in the right place or that you need to change it up. And you are responsible for your own life, your own actions. Only you can change it. I say always get. If you’re wanting to level up, get a mentor. If you’re wanting to kind of learn new things, go for it, because no one, anyone, can take any way anything away from you, but they can never take your education away from you. So and that’s something my dad always taught me and that’s something I’ve always lived my life by, hence why I’m always in courses or running courses so I always say if you feel like that it’s time to make a change, contact whoever you need to contact and start changing your life today. This is not going to happen by itself.

James: 

I’m just letting that hang Right. I didn’t you. You like I’m just letting that hang man.

Dr. Paul: 

Okay, fair, you know you. Um, james, if you don’t mind, I’d actually like to say something to the dental community. If that’s okay, hell, yeah, let’s go. You know, before I was deciding on whether to go on this process, a lot of the decision was based on how I will represent the dental community, because I know the dental community is a very respected profession. It’s a very tight knit community, and something that you know is one of my is one of the best things that I get to do is to be around like minded peers and grow in that way. So it was always a worry about how the dental community was going to take me being on the show, but it’s been so incredibly supportive. So thank you to each and every one of you that have measures that are supporting um that following me on my journey. It has been so much love I can’t even begin to describe it. So, uh, just a massive thank you to, to the whole dental community from me.

James: 

Wow, man, that’s really, really, really kind and appreciated, you know, and it’s amazing that there is somebody who can be that person who’s willing to step outside of the, you know, of their comfort zone, you know, and be that person that people can look up to and say, wow, if he can do it, so can I. You know what I mean? Yeah, he’s a dentist just like all these other people out there, and, like I was saying, just to just to bring it back to what I was saying earlier, the, the, the people who feel like they are, they only have one skill set in this dentistry. Are you with me? You know, I mean live and proof that that’s not necessarily the case and that was a big part of the messages podcast today is inspiration to let people see what is really possible. So, yeah, man, I mean right back at you. Uh, I think I speak for a lot of people here in the dental community when I say those things that I’ve just said and, yeah, just excited for the future of your growth, and where all of this is going to go and on that very topic, paul, obviously staying within the remit of what we can and can’t say at this present time. What does the future look like for you?

Dr. Paul: 

So obviously I can’t say what’s going to happen in the show or anything like that. I don’t want to ruin it for anybody, but I would say, in terms of kind of the dental practices, this is something that we want to keep growing and we want to help our young dentists to be able to mentor them as well. I want to help grow the smile Academy, but we’ve I’ve got some things extremely exciting being released midway through 2025 that is going to change not only the dental world, not only the medical world, but the whole healthcare world altogether. So stay tuned for that. Follow my journey, because it’s going to revolutionise everything. So it’s all in the works at the moment. But, yeah, get excited. That’s all I’ll say.

James: 

Hey, well, listen, I want you to know that, actually, everything of that nature has a home and a place on Dennis, and invest my friend with regards to inspiring people and sharing messages such as the one that you just described, people that are going to help the community and what have you? So, yeah, looking forward to what you have in store and, yeah, just saying that there’s doors are open on that one for certain, just like how we collaborated together on this podcast today, paul. I think that that’s a really lovely note to end this podcast One. Is there anything that you would like to say to wrap up, or all good in the?

Dr. Paul: 

hood. Do you know all good in the hood? But by all means, you know, if you, if you, want to get in touch for any advice or anything like that, I’m always open and I’m sure you’re the same, James. You know a pillar in the community and someone that’s really helping a lot of dentists out there. So thank you for allowing me to be on this podcast. It’s been an absolute pleasure.

James: 

Hey man, I try and right back at you. Thank you in return and I’m already looking forward to the next episode. My friend, I hope you have an absolutely smash and Thursday and let’s speak again soon.

Dr. Paul: 

Lovely to speak to you.