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Dentists Who Invest

Podcast Episode

Dr James: 

Fans of the Dentists Who Invest podcast. If you feel like there was one particular episode in the back catalog in the anthology of Dentists Who Invest podcast episodes that really, really, really was massively valuable to you, feel free to share that with a fellow dental colleague who’s in a similar position, so their understanding of finance can be elevated and they can hit the next level of financial success in their life. Also, as well as that, if you could take two seconds to rate and review this podcast, it would mean the world. To me, what that would mean is that it drives this podcast further in terms of reach so that more dentists across the world can be able to benefit from the knowledge contained therein. Welcome to the Dentists Who Invest podcast. Welcome back, guys, to a very special episode of Dennis who Invest podcast, episode number 23,. All part of your plan Plan your way to financial freedom month, your plan to financial freedom month for dentists. I’m taking it in a little bit of a different direction for this month because I don’t know about anybody else, but when I’m talking to the financial gurus, they are so knowledgeable in their field and I think it’s absolutely wonderful. But I’m so conscious of the amount of jargon on the podcast and I struggle to keep up as well. I feel my brain hurting and I’m supposed to be the host and I’m supposed to understand all these things and I do get about 80-90% off them, but at the same time, on occasion I do get a little bit lost, never mind anybody who is maybe even less background in finance than me. So I wanted to. This was all inspired by a conversation that I had with someone who basically said the same thing back to me, and I’d already been thinking of it, I’d already been conscious of it already, so then I thought, okay, it can’t just be, maybe it’s just more than me. Then the whole point about this page is to inspire dentists to be better with their money, and who better to ask than about planning your finances, planning side gigs, everything else outside of dentistry, than other dentists who have done it themselves? And when I thought about this, the first person that sprang to mind was one of the first people who got me on his podcast, way back in the day. This is when I barely knew what a podcast was. By the way, I never listened to them. I literally never listened to them whatsoever. I’m very ingratiated to the guy he has so much to say about being a dentist and about being well outside of dentistry as well. He is really super interesting. You’ve probably all heard of him already. His podcast has just hit 100,000 views as of yesterday. 100,000 listens as of yesterday, which I think is absolutely insane. Anyway, enough of me being this hype man. He’s right here. He’s in the flesh, virtually. Of course. His name is Jazz Galati. How are you?

Jaz: 

I’m amazing man. I’m really stoked to have this conversation today. I mean I had you on the podcast about money and that was such a successful podcast, james. You provided so much value in that and it’s great to be able to continue the conversation on your podcast today, which is doing so well. Man, it’s so great to see you build a community and you’re helping so many dentists, because as dentists, we are illiterate when it comes to finances and I think you’re making a huge difference in the UK and the world in terms of dentists becoming more financially literate and therefore making better life choices. Retiring better it sounds like really far away and stuff retiring, but it’s important. I mean these are kind of the themes that we’ve got to discuss.

Dr James: 

Honestly, man, I actually just feel blessed and I just feel lucky that it’s got to the level that it has and I didn’t anticipate any of these things. I think it just came along with the right time and you’re quite right, it was some of the things I learned about money along the way that I just thought people need to hear this, this resonates with people. And then I learned things through creating the group myself, creating the podcast, and it just became this whole self-perpetuating thing. But you’ve been along this path as well, on a slightly different front and still on the same the symbiosis kind of parallel theme of educating people, but maybe just from a slightly different perspective, in that you focus on clinical dentistry and I love your podcast. Honestly, I learned so much the guys who come on those I think I know about Emacs on Lays and then I hear someone who actually knows about Emacs on Lays talk on the podcast and it’s real actionable stuff that I can just go in tomorrow and use in clinic and that was one of the things I wanted to ask you a little bit about today. You know, further down the line for anyone who’s listening you may have noticed you will have noticed that there is not a jingle at the start of the podcast. I’ve got this from Fiverrcom. I just thought it’s about time I up my game, make this sound slightly more professional. So yeah, it sounds quite good. There was a few rough and ready edits before we got there. Maybe I’ll release those just for the purposes of humour at some point. They weren’t that great, but we did get there. I quite like the one. I quite like the one that they have. I love to hear everybody’s thoughts on that. But anyway, less about me. I want to know about Jazz, and I’m sure everybody else does as well. Jazz, you are someone who has thought a little bit outside the box in terms the theme of this episode. The title of this episode is dental tunnel vision. Okay, teeth, tunnel vision. Teeth tunnel vision is when we come out of uni and we focus solely on teeth because we think that that’s pretty much all there is to life. And I’ve been this person. I’ve encountered others like this. I’m sure some who are listening, by their own admission, might say that they’ve been guilty of this. It’s not a negative, it’s just maybe a new perspective on life. You’ve thought a little bit outside the box. You’ve started your podcast. I know that you do a little bit of investing as well. Before we get on to that, I’d love to know your reasons, why, and what inspired you to look beyond what was immediately in front of you. But can we just hear a little bit about you for anybody who perhaps doesn’t know you, who’s listening, just so they can get to know you a little bit before we delve into things further?

Jaz: 

Sure, so my name is Janz Galanti. If you go way back, I’m not going to speak one minute. I’m not going to bore you with my entire life story, but I’m a refugee. I came as a refugee from Afghanistan. I was born in Afghanistan. I was six years old when I came to the country. My parents had nothing. I didn’t speak any English. My parents still don’t speak great English. My dad can’t read or write, and when we came to the country and we acclaimed asylum and we got citizenship several years later, it was the. You know. I’m so indebted to the British government. I, honestly, I feel like the luckiest boy in the world, because I see what’s going on in Syria, I see what’s going on with these children. All anyone needs is an opportunity and an education, right. So I was incredibly grateful to receive an opportunity and education, and I felt. I felt, though I had to do something with it because I had. You know, I was given this education. I’m not going to waste it. So I worked like a dog. I was very academic, I was very much like I need study, I need study, I need study. I do regret in my earlier life, watching too much TV, I guess is one of my regrets in life. But you know, overall, as the years go by, as I got wiser throughout A-levels, I started to really work hard and study hard. You know, in dental school I was the first person to get 100% in clinical exams because I was a massive I’m just a massive grafter, so that’s just all about me. So I mean the thing you said about having teeth tunnel vision. I think there’s two sides to every coin because, you know, a lot of people would look at me and say you know, jazz does have teeth tunnel vision, because I’m always banging on about dentistry and, yes, there’s that side to it. And I think for the first five years, like you said, there’s nothing negative about that because I do feel to get your 10,000 hours, get your reps in, if you really really want to be a great dentist as best as you can be the best version of yourself, then if you really really focus on, you know, go on the courses, reflect on your work, take the photos, you know, take the ups and the downs of dentistry, which is just a wonderful pressure. It’s going to take us toll on you and sometimes you have to dedicate your entire life in a way, to dentistry and I did that. Okay, I did that five years or so. I’d say it’s a big part of my life, the moment clinical dentistry. But, as you said, I think there comes a time where we need to take a step back and look around us because and here’s the reason, james, I think that everyone, every dentist, should have a side hustle. Okay, and it is. It just takes one complaint. It takes, if you love your clinical dentistry, no matter how good you are, it takes one spurious complaint to turn your world upside down. Okay, I’ve had lots of near misses in my career. Okay, nothing too bad. But when I’ve had those near misses is resulted in those sleepless nights. And it makes you think, right, it makes you think really hard, james, that you need to have a side hustle because if the proverbial hits the fan, what are you going to do?

Dr James: 

Do you know? That is some real talk right there, and the trouble with one of the negatives of dentistry is you can be persecuted, even you know. It doesn’t even matter about the 99.999% of people that are thrilled. It’s not an odds game, it’s not an average, it’s just that one person and they really can make your life hell, and that is yeah, that’s sad man, but it is true, it’s a reality. And I think as well as I just add on what you’re saying, corona virus for me, when, when the tide goes out, you see the ships, the cracks on the ships, you know what I mean and I just made me realize as well that I’m putting a lot of faith in anyone, not even just dentists. I just think a lot of you know everyone should be diversified In the sense that they have more than one thing that they can do to generate money. You know, as you know, a side gig or whatever. As you put it, it’s just a more. It’s a safer way to go through life. It’s a safer way to go through life. It’s a way that is your more. You’ve got more of an insurance policy should, for whatever you know, people lose a job things. This happens and if you have something on the side, as I say, you’re a stronger person, you’re more robust in that sense. But yes, I’m all for them. I never really. If you would have known me about a year ago, I thought youtube was stupid. I thought podcasts where I didn’t even know what a podcast was. I’m like a totally different person. Maybe now I see that, yes, okay, there’s negativity on social media, but there is a lot of good stuff out there as well. You just have to know where to look. So, jazz, we were talking about teeth television. I just wanted to know what in. Now I know that you just mentioned about the, the. You know the is, you quite rightly said, about complaints in dentistry and how that one, it just takes that one patient, that one incident when you could even worst case scenario lose your career. You know, you know very worst case scenario. Aside from that, was there anything else that made you feel like there was a call to action for you to expand your horizons and maybe think about doing a podcast? Or did it just start out a bit of fun and you didn’t really envisage that it might end up where it is? I’m curious.

Jaz: 

It wasn’t complete fluke, an accident, because I went to singapore, so when?

Dr James: 

singapore did you say it was, it was?

Jaz: 

a complete and the way it turned out to be is a mean. My wife went to singapore after doing our DCT to in shaffield was a great restorative post I did and we and I was at that stage three years qualified where my portfolio was potentially strong enough because I was really into dentistry, I was really documenting everything. It potentially was strong enough to get private practice position. So I wanted but it was. I was going into the answer, going into the unknown I really didn’t want to work in and just practice. I think they do a great service but it just wasn’t for me. So I accepted that. So I thought, okay, should I just sit around Several months potentially to find the unicorn position that may or may not turn up? Okay, someone going to take a gamble on me or not? Or should I do something really cool, really different and travel at the same time working? So I had someone in Singapore who I knew was working there and she was enjoying herself traveling a lot working the dentist. So I reached out to my friend surrender and I went to work in Singapore. So my wife is also a dentist, use community dentist at the moment. She loves community dentistry and we can talk about later about how in your household, whether you’re not, whether you are not married to dentists that is irrelevant but how you should Set up your life so that you know you’re sort of doing slightly different things in a way, and we can talk about that later. But essentially, move to Singapore, had a lovely time there and then my wife got home sick so he came back and then I was in a position to to you know how to strong portfolio, had some more years of experience, had some more failures in me, so I managed to get my pride positions. I was that wanted and I had massive imposter syndrome. James, I was like, even though this is everything I was working towards, even though I work my ass off those last five years, I still feel like I was good enough, right, and every dentist faces this. I think every dentist who cares, I think, faces. So I had that. Now I came back. James is interesting thing that happened People on facebook were talking about all I want to move to australia, all I want to move singapore. In these big groups, like for dentists, by dentists, and anytime anyone mentioned singapore, they always tag my name. And what happens that? Every day, as I was commuting back from work. I’d be on the phone to a different dentist, answer the same questions how much do you want? What’s the other? Any language barriers? What’s the working conditions like, how? What was the visa process? That kind of stuff right. And eventually, after my twenty fifth call, I thought bloody hell is. I wish there was a way to record this audio format and send it to everyone. And hey presto, expat dentists in the from singapore, I think the episode title number one was born, and from there I decided to be myself, share the things I love, which is clink of dentistry and sharing and building a community. And now I get messages on a Almost a daily basis. I’m so blessed that wow, jazz, the podcast is really making me a happy dentist. I’m feeling your passion is contagious. These kind of messages mean the world to me Amazing man, you know what is so curious?

Dr James: 

the number of people I talk to you have these entities, whether they be podcast, facebook groups, things like that. It’s actually so uncommon that they start out. They start out. You know. The genesis of the idea is what it is. You know it involves through time and it becomes this completely different entity and it blows up in all these different ways that you shouldn’t, even, you can’t even imagine. I think the key take home from message, from that is Just put yourself out there if you do want to do something like this, and it doesn’t even have to be necessarily where you want to, you know what catches on or where it ends up. It’s just about taking that first step. And I was totally true. For me, and actually interesting, way back in the day, before I started to invest, I actually tried to start a dentist cryptocurrency group and I think that group Blue up to the dizzying heights of about 20 members, of which it’s still hovering. I need to kind of read that. I need to read that point. But I didn’t quite get wrong to giving it the love and curation that it did deserve, because dentists who invest took off by itself. So, yeah, super interesting. So, jazz, you’ve been on this journey. You’ve been on this journey a lot longer than I have. About the podcast, you know doing things outside of dentistry. What would you say the greatest benefits are to you? And those benefits may not necessarily be things that people would envisage from the outside, looking in. Real quick guys. I put together a special report for dentists entitled the seven costly, potentially disastrous mistakes the dentist make whenever it comes to their finances. Most of the time, dentists are going through these issues and they don’t even necessarily realize that they’re happening Until they have their eyes opened, and that is the purpose of this report. You can go ahead and receive your free report by heading on over to wwwdentistuneinvestcom forward slash podcast report or, alternatively, you can download it using the link in the description. This report details the seven most common issues. However, most importantly, it also shows you how to fix them. Really looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

Jaz: 

Okay. So it definitely leads to more opportunities. You know, I’ve always looked. Since I qualified 2013, I knew that I wanted to be involved in education. I just knew it. Okay, it’s something I’ve always had an affinity for towards. I’ve always been told even was 18, 19, 20 hey, jazz, you’re a good tutor, you’re good at explaining things, you’re good at breaking down complex things in a simple way. I’ve always been told that feedback. Now listen to that feedback. And I thought, okay, how can I make that part of my future? And at the time when you’re a student and you qualify, you think, okay, the where is the most, where is the pinnacle? Dental education. And, of course, you think being a dental teacher at school right, because I said expose to right. You think I’m, if I’m, if I make it as a dental hospital tutor, you made it there right. And so I was thinking, okay, what do I need to do to be able to teach them students in the future? So I did a pg certain dental education and then that’s that’s pros and cons doing that. But I did open my eyes a bit and I started to really get my career, in a way, towards being being the best educators possible as well. So that that was also as a parallel going on, and so when the podcast came, it finally gave me an opportunity to get out my shell and start sharing some my knowledge, because I’m a massive course junkie, as many of you know. So I have a lot of knowledge inside an experience I’m happy to share, and wonderful things have happened from me sharing. So you’re completely right, james, put yourself out there. Whatever it is and it doesn’t have to be Education, I’m sure james in. I think people find it very valuable. If you mean, you just listed a couple of different ideas, make it really tangible. What could dentists be doing? That’s different. So, for example, I had someone reach out to me yesterday who done one of my online courses and I found out that she works as a dentist three days a week and she has a tuition business two days week, so she is a tutor for English, math, science, that kind of stuff, I believe, like a level gcc. So that’s wonderful. I know lots of dentists into property and have lots of rental incomes. I mean my wife, we have one rental income as well, one rental property as well, so that’s a great thing to do. Some dentists like to just invest in practices, which is fine. Others are a day traders as well, and you know where I’m about way more about that than I could ever get to know. So can you give us some examples perhaps, james, of how can make this episode tangible in terms of how to move away from the teeth and do other side gigs? Cool?

Dr James: 

I think something that’s really powerful and maybe a lot of people don’t realize is say you have okay, we all have this body of knowledge and dentistry. That’s cool, right world dentists, we all have spent five years at university. But beyond that, if you know a little bit about something else, a little bit or a lot about something else and this can be anything, this can be the most abstract thing, this can be gardening, this can be Whatever cars, etc. Etc. Because you have that affinity or that brotherhood with those first set of people dentists you’ll be able to offer a unique slant on that, with resonates with those people more than anybody anybody ever else who can, and you’ll be able to bring that information to those people with a slant that only a dentist can and therefore it becomes so much more valuable to those people than you will, you know, than anybody else who’s doing it. So you have this amazing angle. You have this amazing ability to connect with these people that those people don’t, and that’s really valuable. You know, and if you think about it, that’s what the finance group is as well. You know I’m not professional trader. You know, I just I’m somebody’s just read a lot of books on finance, read a lot of books on crypto, done it for a while, you know, and I can, because I’m a dentist I can bring that information to those people and Give it to them in a fashion that’s tailored to them, which makes it much more useful. I think that’s that’s my favorite one. That’s the. That’s my favorite thing that I’ve realized, jazz, is that, because a lot of people think that you have to be an expert on these things, it helps to know more, but you know, even if you don’t necessarily know that much, you’ll be able to help all these people just by putting yourself out there and giving them that information in some shape or fashion, and all these amazing things will come with it, and the number of conversations and doors open to you, you know, and friends that you make. It’s not even necessarily have to be financial rewards. It’s just an amazing, amazing new perspective on life, and that was the greatest thing I learned. That was the greatest thing I learned the time in the matter, friends and connections I made from the podcast been insane.

Jaz: 

It’s insane and it’s really wonderful to connect with people from austria, from costa rica, from from australia, and you know, we’re like instagraming, message, dm each other on a daily basis and just sharing our love for dentistry. And that’s what the podcast has become. But what I wanted to do because we told me the title of the podcast was the path to financial freedom well, it is something that you know, in a way I’m unqualified talk about because I’m very much early on that path. But but, like you said, I’ve done my homework in the past that I spent a good two, three years becoming more literate in personal finance. I told you on the podcast, when you came on, I accidentally listen to attorney robbins book, which I thought was about motivation, life, but turn out to be about money, and I was at what the hell was an index fund, right? So I started to learn about that now, starting to invest in that because I believe. Well, and I told you also in that episode we recorded together was episode thirty five was the fire movement f I r? E, the financially independent, retire early how everyone should be able to save, save, save enough money, invest it so that eventually and this is like a twenty, twenty five year plan you can have a nest egg to to rely on instead of, you know, just leaving it to chance, and that’s something I really believe in and I follow along.

Dr James: 

Yeah, one hundred percent, and it comes back. The nest egg thing I like because it comes back to not putting all your eggs in one basket and, as we’ve already, you know you can start on picking holes and dentistry, which it’s it’s inherently fragile and you know you can. Just that there is that one, there can just be that one incident that, for whatever reason, like it happens, people can lose a license.

Jaz: 

So it’s best to head your back or back problems, james back problems, and you know you’re injuries, all that sort of things.

Dr James: 

I saw a list the other day right One hundred worst jobs for your health and I thought, okay, dentistry is on there somewhere. Alright, I thought yeah, dentistry is definitely not. Maybe top fifty, top seventy number one. You saw it from me, that was my, that was gonna be my bombshell, that I was gonna drop with the end. Jazz, okay, dentistry was number one, dental technician was not to. Dental technician is number two and dental nurse was top ten as well. And they it was from the point of view of radiation, infectious disease, cross infection and toxicity, hazardous materials, amalgam, blah, blah, blah, all these things. But anyway, but jazz, I wanted to ask jazz, I wanted to ask as well I know that you, obviously you balance this with dentistry, your podcast and your other commitments. How does that look? How does your week look for you and just how much time does that take for anybody who’s maybe not, you know started a podcast? Is it a big time commitment, is a little? I really don’t know.

Jaz: 

Great question, james. So initially, when I was doing it all myself and I think every if you start to make content, if you want to do you to do the podcast, if you wanna start your own business and tuition business, whatever, if you want to do something different and you wanna get yourself out there, then you need a lot of time in the beginning, because one hour and I’m sure same with you, james, one hour of content would typically take about five hours in terms of putting it all together Game audio right, game images right in the copy, making the website stuff. You can generate emails, that kind of stuff right. So it takes one hour content takes five hours behind the scenes. Okay, fast forward, you know, two years now. I’ve got a team now which I can rely on thank you to do this before me so I can just focus on my family and focus on making content, which is why I love doing, absolutely love talking about dentistry. I’m starting to more reviews of dental products and stuff, but it’s very time intensive at the beginning. But you ask really good question how’s my week look like? Well, I want everyone who’s listening today to do the following exercise. So if you’re, if you multitasking, listen up. You need to design your life. Stop getting dictated by everyone else. You sit down and design your life how many hours you want to work a week, how much money do you want to earn a year, how much money do you want to save a year? You need to have this conversation with your family member, with your significant other, and get decided. So I decided that I want to work in a practice where they have an 8am to 2pm shift pattern and maybe a 2pm to 8am shift pattern. So I put that out to the universe and eventually the universe spoke back to me and the opportunity came along. So by having that half a day, so I worked from 8am to 2pm. Like solid. It’s like a six hour block. You get a 20 minute break in there. I love that model, james, because I can be a father, because I pick my son up from nursery and I can give my son some time. I can do some podcasting in the evening or make me some content. I can just have a life outside of density. But with that couple of hours that you shave off, it doesn’t make a massive difference in terms of income. It really doesn’t. It just makes you more focused. So the only reason I’m able to do all these things is from the time generated by working as a shift pattern dentist, and that’s the real secret I think I found to being able to make a side hustle work, either cut down to three days a week or work many days a week, but work in a shift pattern. What do you think?

Dr James: 

Awesome, yeah, I mean. Well, I used to be the guy I actually used to work two jobs and I used to work six days, and it’s almost like it’s not the. It is the hours that you spend there, but it’s also the time that you don’t have, if that makes sense. So let me just explain that further. So what I mean by that is there’s seven days in a week. If you work six of those days, you only have one day to prepare for the rest of your week. Do you know what I mean? Okay, and maybe do all your other things as well. So from that point of view, I felt like, maybe, looking back on it, I was constrained in that I couldn’t actually pursue these other interests that I might have had as much as I would have liked to. So from the point of view of reducing your hours, as you’ve said, jazz, what you know, past a certain point, past a certain point, money just becomes something that you kind of have for the sake of it. And particularly with dentists, we all, we all, none of us you know it’s very rare as a dentist who’s struggling to put food on the table. Let’s be real. And if you want to be the person who expands beyond dentistry. I think that you have to start looking at yourself and thinking can I do less dentistry? If only if I don’t need to, only if you don’t need to. But that’s the first step. For me, that is the first step and it’s all these. Yes, it’s going into the unknown, but you still have your food in the game. So it’s not like. You know you’ll struggle, you know you’ve sat down and done your numbers, presumably, and that’s the first step to getting out. Because if you can’t, if you’re already working too many hours, you’re never going to have the time to make that step and follow these other pursuits, whatever they might be.

Jaz: 

That would be my greatest lesson that I have, you don’t have any time for the passion. You don’t have any time to be creative. We need time. We need these silent hours away from the practice to be creative and get our creative juices flowing. And also, James, like if you’re working, if you’re just waking, more days and the more successful you become, the more your patients like you, the more your patients refer other patients to you. And if you’re not having, if you’re not at a stage where patients are raving fans yet, then maybe you should be working on your clinical dentistry, because you want to get your clinical dentistry at a level where you can be competent but you can also show warmth to your patients and you’re a likable you’re a likable dentist, so that you get more referrals from your patients. And then, when you get busy enough so that you’re looking ahead in the weeks and you’re busy, busy, busy, then that’s the optimum time to then take a step back, Because the more you work, at that stage, if your books are full, you’re more just paying the tax man. So be tax efficient in a way by working less days. And then think about other ways to spend more time in your family, more time doing the gardening which you love to do more time doing things that you love to do, and then more time on the potential side hustle, which I strongly believe everyone should have, even if it’s just getting into property and looking at which properties you should invest in. Anything you could think of you can make happen.

Dr James: 

Yeah, I should say as well the group that I’ve created. There was three years of work before I got to that point, in essence, because I’ve started learning about finance before and I never really actually imagined that any of these things would happen. So it’s the seeds that you plant today that germinate tomorrow and grow into beautiful oak trees and things like that. And I know that sounds like waffely and whatever, but this is very poetic James to creating to thank you, Thank you, Thank you To creating anything like that. It has to start somewhere and it isn’t something that you might you might see an immediate return on for a while, but at least it broadens your horizons and it makes you less committed to dentistry, which is we’ve already fleshed out. There are some strong advantages to doing that, but yeah, it definitely is. It definitely is the long game and it was the long game for me and through most people that I’ve chatted to who started. Whatever that might be, it’s always been the long game. It’s always taken them quite a while to get to where they are. Jazz, I wanted to ask as well you said about the well, obviously you love doing your podcast and we spoke about the benefits a little bit If anybody was listening and they were thinking about taking that first step I know we’ve kind of covered this already what would you concisely say to them to encourage them to go for it?

Jaz: 

So reasons why they should go for it, right yeah just long story.

Dr James: 

short summary Boom, boom boom.

Jaz: 

If you have a story, if you have a purpose, if you have something to share that’s valuable to other people, no matter what niche it’s in, go for it, because you don’t want to look back and think, oh what if I had just done that? Because wonderful things will happen if you, if you’ve got someone who’s got something to share, if you’ve got a story, if you’ve got a mission, I promise you wonderful things will happen. So that’s you know. Go for it. I would say you will not regret it. It does have to balance with the time, as I said, you need to make time for it and you need to give it the love and the sun and the warmth and the water to allow that seed to germinate, as you said. But it, you know, it can be very fruitful, very rewarding, even from just the connections you make, because your network is your net worth and from that you know beautiful things can grow.

Dr James: 

I’ve never heard that before. Your network is your net worth. I’m taking notes, I’m taking notes and taking notes. You know what? Jazz and I came to a revelation off-camera. We both agree. This Jazz is the Gary V of dentistry. I’m just throwing it out there. I’m just throwing it out there. No, I’m joking. He didn’t integrate himself, I proposed it.

Jaz: 

That’s the biggest compliment, that’s the biggest compliment ever.

Dr James: 

I proposed it but now I’m seeing the parallel so much, the entrepreneurialism, the enthusiasm, all these things. What a great way to kick off your path to financial freedom. And I know, okay, neither of us are technically financially free, but there’s some lessons in there that we’ve learned both along the way that have meant that I’d like to both think that we’re maybe progressing down that road, I suppose we’re taking the first steps.

Jaz: 

You’ve built this wonderful community and then I’ve also been doing, you know, investing in ICES and made myself literate, and I’m happy to share some things. I mean two things I wrote down as notes to add value to the people who listen to. This podcast is two things I want to discuss. One is lifestyle creep. Are you familiar with that?

Dr James: 

I recall you saying it. I don’t want to take the wind-arty sales, but I’ll let you speak on it. I think I know what it is. I think I know what it is.

Jaz: 

There’s nothing too magical about it. It’s just basically as your income increases. Because you remember as a student you had that four grand student loan and you lived off beans on toast and you were happy as Larry right. And then you start having an income and it’s about 30-odd K and then maybe you’re getting more and more income. Then naturally, then the lavish expenses start coming and stuff like that, but then that’s really killing any savings you could make. So just be careful of lifestyle creep. That’s a dentist’s weirdness wonderful profession and part of the reasons that we’re able to talk about the kind of stuff we’re talking about today is it’s one of those wonderful professions that if you wanted to work part time you could Not. Anyone in any profession can do that, and I’ve got loads of friends in other industries who say, wow, jazz, I can’t believe that you can just work three days a week and that is a possibility down the line. People are just amazed by that. So just be careful of lifestyle creep. Have a look, are you starting to spend significantly more as your income increases? If so, then how are you supposed to save more? So it’s really important to save more in terms of lifestyle creep. Before I raise the second point. Is there anything you want to add to that, james?

Dr James: 

I love that because you need to have money to invest to make money. And anecdotally, anecdotally a friend of a friend got out of dental school. Thought to himself I’m on an FD’s wage now, you know I’m earning, I’ll get a decent flat and I’ll get a car and I’ll pay it off on finance. Got out of you know, finished his FD year, got a new job. Things didn’t really go to plan, didn’t get along with his principal, left the job and now he has this car and this house and it’s like a noose around his neck. He works, however many days a week five, five, six days a week and I think he has about 100 pounds left over at the end of the month and he’s having to do some real thinking. He’s having to do some real thinking outside the box as to how to get himself out of this predicament. So, yeah, definitely a lesson to be learned in there somewhere. And yeah, it’s. You know it’s about saving, isn’t it? Well, you can.

Jaz: 

Absolutely, and have you covered the difference? I mean you might have done already, but have you covered in your podcast yet the difference between an investor and a trader?

Dr James: 

I feel like we’ve delved. We flashed it out a few times, but I’d love to hear what you think about it and maybe you can add some more insight to another perspective.

Jaz: 

I’ll just give you the. You know Joe blogs dentist, doctor blogs the dentist version in terms of, in terms of this right, Because, based on our episode that we did on my podcast, the number one sort of query, a question I came back like the scenarios that dentists would pitch to me like, firstly, they say, wow, I need to really educate myself about money. So you definitely brought that to the podcast. You know you really inspire dentists to think, okay, I need to start learning about money and how it works and how to save and how to invest. So most the average dentist at the moment is unsure about how to invest. They maybe have a savings account that’s occurring, you know, 0.2% a year or something like that. So your podcast episode really made them think. And then the most common thing I get is okay, jazz, I listened to your podcast with James. It was really good. I’m going to put a thousand pounds into an index fund. What do you think? Which one should I go for? I’m like, okay, that’s great, okay, but but then what happens a few months later is that, hey, jazz, I’m a little bit disappointed. That thousand pound investment I made it’s only got me 27 pounds and it’s been four months and I’m a little bit concerned. Okay, so then we need to have this conversation with this dentist, and many other dentists were starting on this journey. Is that okay? Are you an investor or a trader? And you’re. I want you to do this because you will do it so much better than I will. And then also, like I’ll give the example of my sister, who also saw that, I started to get into this stuff and she put a hundred pound in trading to one trading to one to, and she made 40 pounds, okay, after three months, because she invested in some like light bulb company that she read about, and she and I told her look, simmeron, she’s my sister. I said you’re just gambling, right, just picking one company and you’re gambling. What’s your strategy? Now she’s like, well, I’ve only made 40 pounds three months. This is rubbish. And I’m like, what the hell? You made 40% in three months. This is insane, this is amazing, this is phenomenal. So we need to fix our mindset about where we’re going with this.

Dr James: 

Two things I’ll say on that. The first one is when you are going into any investment, it’s really, really helpful to have an idea over what period of time you’re expecting to draw profits. Okay, so if you’re buying something and say you’re looking to the very long run and you’re saying, well, actually, index funds, over this amount of time they almost always go up on value, you can sleep so well at night because, no matter what it does day to day, you don’t care because you believe in the long run that it will go up in value. Okay. So that is, that is such a helpful way of looking at it and that’s such a helpful, healthy mindset to go into things. And alternatively, if you’re buying something as a punt for anybody’s listening, dogecoin springs to mind, or GME those are not things you want to hold long term, you know. So you kind of want to get in and out and then you can make money. That’s, you know, if you ride, if you ride that up, you can probably, you’re probably going to ride it down again because it’s such a short, short term investment. So if you have an idea of when you’re going to get out, then that can mean that you’re ever more likely to make money on that. And again, you won’t lose sleep at night when it crashes down to zero. The other thing I was going to say, really one of my favorite sayings about investment investing you only have the resolve to trade your beliefs in the market, not the beliefs of others. Okay, so in case that isn’t immediate, does that, does that make sense? See before, before I kind of describe what that means Jazz does that? Can you see where I might go with that?

Jaz: 

Kind of. But I think someone who’s not as read up and hasn’t read a few books and stuff they might be like, make it tangible for me.

Dr James: 

Fair enough. Fair enough, A lot of me to explain. So what I mean by that is when you read about any particular asset and you learn a lot about it. You’ll learn about how it moves and over what period of time it’s expected to increase in price. So you’ll be able to put your money into that and you’ll be able to say well, actually I don’t care about the daily noise where it’s going up and down, that’s fine. Because I think, like with gold, as long as inflation continues, I think gold is going to go up in value, because gold is the benchmark of inflation. So that’s my personal belief. So I can buy gold, and I can. I don’t care if it goes down. It’s not doing very well at the minute, I don’t care if that happens. I think in the long run it’ll still go up until we figure out a way to get it from asteroids, which is a long way off. There’s only going to be so much gold. You know what I mean? Yeah, so that’s my personal belief. So I can buy gold and I can sleep well at night. But if I tell you to buy gold and you think, oh, okay, I don’t really trust this guy, but okay, I’ll put some money into it. You know what I mean. And then gold doesn’t do well for six months, You’ll one be unhappy with me and two, you’ll probably take your money out, and then you’ll miss the real train when it comes later. You know what I mean. So what I’m saying is you only have the understanding. Yes, Well, hopefully that flesh is out a little bit more what I was talking about. I hope that makes more sense.

Jaz: 

It makes a lot of sense and I love that. It’s a really great belief system. It’s a really great way to make it tangible.

Dr James: 

I think Best saying best saying I’ve ever heard of Biden Vass.

Jaz: 

and favorite saying I’m going to pitch something to you, my friend. I’m going to ask you something. I’m going to yeah, well, I don’t have nothing to add to that in particular, but I’ve opened up my Trading212 account. Okay, it’s here on my phone right now. So I’m going to spend the next three minutes asking James, because to me you are the expert, right, I know we’re not giving financial advice and stuff, but I just want to know what would you do? What would you do in this scenario? Right, and I know you’re going to ask me what’s my aim, what’s my goal and stuff, right. So, after being inspired by you and the group a little bit. So I’m primarily an investor, right, I do index funds and I know I’m going to stick in there for about 30 years, okay, and I know I’ll come out and swap, most likely right, and I’m very much max out my ISA. So everything’s tax free and these are just fundamental rules which will be following, right. But then, within my ISA, I put £2,000 into IAG shares in IAG okay, which is like their own British Airways and that kind of stuff. Right, because they had gone down. So, let’s see, I’m just bringing my chart up so I can make it tangible In one year they’d gone okay. In one year they’d gone down 51% due to the or about 70% due to the pandemic, right. So I bought it a few months ago when it was really low, and now it’s gone up 36%. So my 2000 pounds is now almost 3000 pounds, right. What should I do? Should I take out the profits and then maybe invest it into my index funds, because I know that’s gonna be their long run or Because it’s still, you know, yet to reach the peak that it initially was? Should I hold on?

Dr James: 

I Am the investor that will always say risk first, always. Okay. So I mainly. What I mean by that is I. I mainly when I buy. I don’t really trade stocks so much day-to-day. I’ve got a few stuff. I’ve got oracle blockchain I don’t know if you’ve heard of that. It’s a Bitcoin company and I think that their price is tied to the Fluctuations of Bitcoin. So I’ve personally invested in that because that’s what I know about and that’s what I’ve been trading the most. It’s all about picking one asset and just learning the absolute heck out of it. But that’s an aside. So what I would do on that one I went. When I invest or when I trade in any crypto, I always say risk first, always. And even if I look at this and I think this is a gem, all right, this is if, unless everything I know is wrong, I think this is gonna go up in value, okay, I’m convinced that it will, yeah, but you never quite know what is gonna happen. So every trade that I get into, I always say to myself what is the minimum that I can take out? That when it hits a certain price target, that, even if the thing totally goes against me and I lose money, that I’ll have broken even and then that way I’ve managed my risk every single time. So I think for me, with a trade like that even though I don’t particularly know much was it IEG, was that it I EG, I, I AG, so they that even displays how little I know about it what I would do on that one is I would go anything that I trade, anything that I’m not investing in, so investing being things that I don’t want to draw profit in the very, very long run, anything that I’m trading, I Am looking to get in and out. I Calculate at what price I will sell if I think the trade is gonna go against me. So I’ll look at the chart and I’ll say, right, here’s, here’s some support, here’s some resistance, here’s where I think the price could go. If it goes this far beneath it, I’m out. I don’t care what happens, I’m out. Okay, so for whatever that price is, I calculate what is the first price target that I need to sell at that no matter of this thing totally goes against me, I’ll have broken even. And then, once I’ve done that, I just siphon off profits as it keeps going up in value and I basically just look at the chart and I put on these very hard limits, and that way my risk is always, always, always limited.

Jaz: 

Brilliant. So sounds like I should draw some money out from this but keep some in Because I do have faith in it, because essentially it’s British Airways, these airlines and all the whole is getting booked and the confidence coming back up and it is a way of mitigating my risk by taking drawing some of the money out and putting into my sort of my allowance for the index fund which I, which I know I’ve got faith in over the next 30 years.

Dr James: 

I believe. So risk first always. Another thing that quite often happens is people will buy a stock or people will buy a crypto or Whatever, and again it goes back to the theme of what I was saying earlier about having a plan Before you get into it, because unless you have a tangible point at which something you are going to sell something and make money, then you’ll. You can watch this thing go up and go straight back down again, and there is no point at which you know you’re. There’s another sign on Wall Street Not to throw me too many Wall Street saying is that you but you’re only you’re a sheep and investing until you take profit and then you’re a wolf. Does that make sense? So While your money is still in the trade, you’re still a sheep. It can still go against you. You haven’t actually got anything out of it until you take some money out. So I’m a big fan. I’m a huge fan of taking partial profits at certain levels, because no one knows what will happen, and then, at that way, you’ve always paid yourself. Pay yourself for your hard work, pay yourself for your diligence, and your fortune is your fortuitousness. Do you know what I mean? That’s the way I look at it personally.

Jaz: 

That’s very good. Also reminds me of another saying that people generally, when we’re investing, where we hold on to the losers For too long and we’re hesitant to sell the winners, and that’s a losing formula in a way, because we, you know we’re looking at our losses and we we’re waiting for it to go up, so we just lose and lose and lose and our and our winners, where you know we’re selling to too soon. Is that right? Is that the way? Think about it.

Dr James: 

Yeah, I read a really interesting I think it’s almost 90%, 99% psychology, personally. So what you’ve just described is a psychological problem because the market’s actually giving you some given people who are in that position some money. They just have a barrier against taking it mentally. Really not to go too much on a tangent, but really interesting book Van Tharp’s trade your way to financial freedom. Okay, guys, a trading God, k van Thorpe, trading God, been trading for however long, made millions, just enjoys teaching people. Now, 50 traders. These interviewed 50 traders. Okay, he wanted to find the essence of trading and making money in the market. He wanted to know what it was. Okay, 50 traders. They all had different systems. They all had four things in common. They all plant how much they put in as part of their trade. They all scouted the trade for a good entry. They took profits at certain levels and also they sold their position if it got below a certain price. He wanted to know what, apart from those, what do their methods have in common? They all had totally different methods. They used different indicators, a million different ways of doing it. They were all successful. The four things they had in common. The things that they had in common were those four things and their Psychology was in check because they took profit 50 traders and they all made loads of money. So that’s, that’s the. The holy grail is that basically just to kind of train yourself to take your profits and sell when it goes against you, and it’s just about, it’s just Discipline. That’s the thing, just discipline.

Jaz: 

Amazing. I’m going to sell a decent amount of those shares and put it into my index months and I’ll go back to the set and forget mode invest and forget, which is the way my personality suits me better that way rather than being a trader, to be honest with you. So my dabble worked, I got lucky and I went in without a plan. But you’re so right, you should go in with a plan and I’m going to do that, thank you.

Dr James: 

Awesome Jazz. Just before we wrap up, because I know that you’re on a bit of a time limit today, I know that you are someone who, well, you’ve just talked about how you do your investing. Can you just give us an idea of what you buy? What do you think are some helpful tips to those who are listening, who are maybe uninitiated in the world of investing, or even if they are, I’ve got a bit of experience. What would you say to those people?

Jaz: 

I would firstly say, read up on index funds. Two books I can recommend is the one by Tony Robbins, which is unshakable, I believe, and the other one by JL Collins is the Simple Path to Wealth, and they break out very much. I took my philosophy from those books in terms about putting money inside every month, maxing out your tax-free ISA, that kind of stuff, and I would put it into what currently I’m a big believer in VWRL, which is the Vanguard Fund, and it’s about 58% weighted towards USA, which is the S&P 500. And it’s got like the 42% around the world. So you’re diversified and that’s my go-to. But anything that has some diversity can be a good fund. Look at the performance history of it and just stick with it and it’s going to have bad days, going to have good days, but have that long-term mindset that in 30 years you should be. I mean, for me I don’t have an NHS pension or a very small one if that. So this is in a way it’s my pension and again, like I said in the episode we did, it’s my goal to fire financially independent, retire early and I’m happy to say that my fire number is a million. When I have a million in my ISA. I can then draw out 4% a year, which is 40 grand tax-free, right, and it sounds like just 40 grand. Just that is, but tax-free. I don’t drive a Ferrari or anything. I’ve got a fairly simple person. I don’t have a very expensive dress sense or anything. I don’t need that much money. So I’m confident that I’ll get to a stage whereby I can work because I want to, not because I need to, because I’m a good saver now, thanks to my wife, and I don’t have a very lavish lifestyle and therefore I’m able to save, invest and hopefully one day I can fire.

Dr James: 

Love it, jazz. I love how you’ve got a tangible figure as well, because that’s another thing that maybe well, I mean, when you get into investing, if you have a hard limit on where you want to get to, then that’s your goal, and then you’ll know at that point that you’ve achieved something, rather than just continuing indefinitely, because that the whole point of it is that you can. You’re supposed to be financially free at some stage, and maybe having a tangible point is very, very, very helpful. So another another good message there do you think you’ll continue to do dentistry, jazz, when you reach that point?

Jaz: 

Yes, absolutely Because. Because, because you know, I feel as though I want to be able to do dent and I think everyone should, I think every dentistry would aim for this right. If you can make yourself in a financial position that you do dentistry because you want to and not because you need to, wow, I mean, can you just imagine that, that you can go into work and you want to do this dentistry and the awkward patient that you have in front of you who doesn’t excite you? You can be like you know, I’m not so interested. You know you don’t have to take that treatment plan on whatever that’s. That’s the holy grail man.

Dr James: 

It is, it is. I love it. My friend Jazz, thank you so much. This has been amazing. The day fire in the booth I always knew there would be, from a man who’s hit 100,000 views on his podcast. I’ve learned things today. I hopefully, think I hopefully everyone else who’s listening has to.

Jaz: 

I hope it was valuable. I mean, I hope it wasn’t too basic and I hope people found value from that 100%.

Dr James: 

This is the whole point. It’s supposed to be an entry level access to kind of investing for dentists and also, as well as that, a little bit beyond the investing, just other things outside of dentistry, and I think we’ve hit the nail on the head today. Honestly, I have such a good time. Thank you so much, mate, so good. Thank you so much, james. If you enjoyed this podcast, please hit, follow or subscribe so you can stay up to date with information on new podcasts which are released weekly. Please also feel free to leave a positive review so others can learn about this podcast and benefit from it. I would also encourage any fans of the podcast to sign up to the free Facebook community from which the podcast originated. Please search Dentists who Invest on Facebook and hit join to become part of a community of thousands of other dentists interested in improving their finances, well-being and investing knowledge. Looking forward to seeing you on there.