Dentists Who Invest

Podcast Episode

Full Stranger

Dr James: 0:41

Fans of the Dentists who Invest podcast. If you feel like there was one particular episode in the back catalog in the anthology of Dentists who Invest podcast episodes that really, really really was massively valuable to you, feel free to share that with a fellow dental colleague who’s in a similar position, so their understanding of finance can be elevated and they can hit the next level of financial success in their life. Also, as well as that, if you could take two seconds to rate and review this podcast, it would mean the world. To me, what that would mean is that it drives this podcast further in terms of reach so that more dentists across the world can be able to benefit from the knowledge contained therein. Welcome, welcome to the Dentists who Invest podcast. Right then. Welcome everybody. We had to move this across to Zoom. This is something I’ve been looking forward to for a while. Let me just go ahead and pin myself as the main speaker so everybody can see me. Awesome. Thank you everybody for joining us on this wonderful Sunday evening. Thank you for taking time out of your schedules to join Hannah and I as we discuss Hannah’s entrepreneurial journey and we were just talking off camera, and I am blown away by what Hannah has done. She’s going to reveal everything in just a minute. Former dentist. Former dentist Priya. Hi Priya, how are you? I can’t hear you. Can everyone else hear me? Give me a wave, everybody, hannah can hear me.

Hannah: 2:00

Yeah, I can hear you. Yeah, I can.

Dr James: 2:03

Priya, I don’t know, maybe it might be the volume at your end, but let me know how that pans out.

Hannah: 2:08


Dr James: 2:10

Excellent. Good to mention Priya, because then we know everybody can hear me. Tremendous, as we were just saying. Hannah’s entrepreneurial journey is absolutely incredible, and you know what? It’s something that she’s done all off her own back as well, and it is flipping inspirational. I am bigging Hannah up absolutely massively. Hannah is going to speak in just a minute so we can all learn more. Hannah, how are you? Would you like to jump on and just say hello to everybody?

Hannah: 2:33

Yeah, thank you so much. Very kind words. I’m not sure if I’m totally deserving of those. I’m super excited to chat to everyone this evening.

Dr James: 2:42

Awesome, cool Hannah. You guys will know Hannah from the group because I posted a bio earlier, but Hannah’s set up an amazing company. She’s a bit of a tech entrepreneur dentist-com tech entrepreneur because she set up this wonderful business called Koroku, which is now Hannah. Correct me if I’m wrong. This is a multi-million point business now, isn’t it?

Hannah: 3:04

It’s. I mean, I wouldn’t want to put figures on it, but it’s growing at a fair pace and hopefully we’re actually providing something that’s actually useful for our dentists. I can tell you a bit more about the journey you are very, very, very modest.

Dr James: 3:16

Hannah, yes, Koroku, we’ve mentioned it, we’ve alluded to it, we’ve suggested well, what it is. But maybe you might like to tell us a little bit more about your entrepreneurial journey and how it started and what exactly Koroku is, because I’ve kind of skirted over for it. I’ve kind of skirted over it a little bit.

Hannah: 3:33

So super broad there. So should I answer kind of what kind of tourism and I’ll kind of talk very broadly about my career journey so far Would that be?

Dr James: 3:42

Let’s, I’ll tell you what. Let’s keep it super simple. We’ll just talk about what you first. How about that? A little bit of an intro for those who don’t know you.

Hannah: 3:48

Right, okay, so I’m Hannah, really lovely to meet you all. I am a dentist, qualified in 2014, went straight into VT, then did a DCT in central London as well and then kind of during this whole time, was curious about technology and how that could make the lives of dentists a little bit better, but wasn’t quite sure how to go about doing that, so kind of rolled into my first associate position, did that for some time and then I went through or I applied for an accelerator program, which is a program where they kind of give you a minimal amount of funding and they give you mentorship, you know, exposure to people who run businesses and kind of sold their businesses before and from that kind of started Carocco. And so I met my co-founder there, who isn’t a dentist, he is a software engineer and so we started working on Carocco yes, some years ago now and it’s been a super exciting journey since then.

Dr James: 4:49

Awesome. And yeah, carocco is. Of course you’re. You’ll do a much better job describing it than me, but Carocco is a platform that dentists can use to systemise how they are placing their notes on their, on their, on their respective software.

Hannah: 5:09

I mean that’s a pretty accurate description of actually I might steal some of those words, but, at broad least speaking, carocco kind of makes writing records easier, more thorough, quicker, just to allow the dentist to actually focus on the thing you train to do, which is actually speak to patients, provide care to patients.

Dr James: 5:30

So oftentimes, well done to you, by the way, because often, how many dentists do we know out there we want to move outside of dentistry, who want to seek another career, and they struggle to know what avenue to go down and how to take that leap, what to do exactly. So for you, it was just you just started exploring this stuff, and that’s how it. So I’m just looking at we’ve got a little bit of a game plan in terms of what we’re going to bring up tonight, don’t we? So I’m just looking at my questions down here, so pardon my eyes being diverted from the camera, but yes, like I say, so many dentists, they don’t know where to start. How did that look for you? How did that process? How did that journey look for you? Did you just start exploring random things, or did you always have an idea that you were going to go down this path of creating some sort of business, a tech entrepreneur, or what does that journey look like for you?

Hannah: 6:18

I guess no, firstly I will say I had no idea that I was not going to be a dentist. I thought I was going to be happily in practice, and I’m as shocked as anyone that I’m not. But I think, firstly, I think the probably the first thing that got me onto a slightly different road, I suppose, was my DCT position actually had a fair amount of dental public health in it, which I’d never really been massively interested in in a university, but I actually found it so interesting and it gave me a completely different perspective than dentistry and how changes can affect lots and lots of you know different people at once, and so that was probably the first thing. The next thing I was then interested in technology sufficiently to want to like learn more, but had no knowledge of how to seek, you know, more exposure to technology and startups and all of those things. So the thing I did and this was in my kind of both VT and DCT year I remember I was going to like two tech meetups a week or something like that, and I was going to these after work where quite often it was doctors who were presenting businesses that they had started and how they’ve gone about doing that, and I just think that just started giving me a bit of I suppose in spoke confidence. What’s that right in?

Dr James: 7:33

spoke inspiration in spoke.

Hannah: 7:35

I think it also gave me confidence that actually there’s other clinicians doing different stuff. This this isn’t so so wild for me to have a go at. But equally I didn’t know, I knew nothing. I didn’t have any network to kind of invest learn to anything like that. I didn’t know how to go about learning more about that. So that’s why I went through the Accelerator Program, entrepreneur first, because I felt like then I would be given a more structured program of learning and that it really was valuable for me. I don’t think I would have been able to do it without a program similar to that and there’s loads of different ones, you know, if anyone is interested in starting a business, but that story in itself, that description for me.

Dr James: 8:20

You’re the average of your five best friends or the five people you spend the most time with. So, guess what? If you’re brushing shoulders with these entrepreneurs, these people who have done what you’re thinking about doing and seeking to achieve, then it rubs off on you. You know what I mean? It’s as simple as that For me. Like I say, it’s just so. If you immerse yourself in that environment by the sheer power of osmosis, some of that knowledge is going to make its way into your head.

Hannah: 8:45

And it’s also, it’s the possibilities of it and like, oh wait, this is something I could do. It just kind of provides almost like a role model for you. So that’s what I found. I mean, I would literally just search on Eventbrite and just be like med tech talks, like learning to raise funding, like just loads of random stuff, and I just book onto these free evenings that were being put on in like random places in London See how cool is that?

Dr James: 9:08

And then also another reason why that would have been useful. Here’s what happens to me when I go to those sorts of events and talks. Something seeps into my brain and I’m not even aware, like bits of information seep into my brain and I’m not even aware that it’s there. And then, about six months down the line, someone’s talking to me and something just comes out. I’ll just all of a sudden remember this and it just comes out. Are you with me? Yeah, totally. I’m just looking at my bookshelf over here, because I’ve got lots of books like that as well. They go in here, they kind of just, you know, bumble around in there for a little while and then eventually they pop out. Are you with me? And that 101, how to start off being an entrepreneur right there, my eyes. That will be gold dust to so many people in the audience tonight looking to know where to start. It’s like to say the power of osmosis, getting yourself out there, familiarizing yourself with people who are on that path already, and guess what? The magic happens. You just make it more likely for you, don’t you? Totally, totally agree with that, totally? How did you feel when you were a dentist then? Did you enjoy the career of dentists?

Hannah: 10:08

Really loved dentistry, actually still loved dentistry. I do a tiny bit of dentistry still. I do a Tuesday evening every other week, so it’s not as frequent as I would like, but now I really, really enjoyed it. But I think that kind of knowledge of public health made me think of what things could I do that affected lots of people and I think maybe going straight into an associate position just didn’t. It didn’t feel like it was a scalable impact and I think maybe that was an element of it as well.

Dr James: 10:37

Okay, you always knew you wanted to do big things.

Hannah: 10:41

And you thought, oh no, I think that makes it sound more lofty than it was it just, I think maybe I felt, I think I suddenly, I think I was in practice, I was really really enjoying it and I was just slightly aware as well this was an element of what made me do it as early in my career as I did. I thought if I continue being a dentist, I’m gonna get used to this salary and then I’m never gonna be able to do something different. And I know that sounds really silly, but I was like then I’m gonna start, I’m gonna become reliant on this. So I just thought, before that even happens, let me give this thing a go. And my thought process then was it’s inevitably not gonna work. At the end of the program I’m gonna return to dentistry. But I’ve given this thing a try and then I won’t regret it. And that’s how I viewed it. And then, obviously, with each time, something’s happened to allow Karethu to continue living for X number of months, years, it’s just dentistry has got sort of slightly further away from me than I originally anticipated.

Dr James: 11:37

I like that description. Yeah, I really like that. And there was something that you said just a second ago. Yeah, it was. Yeah, that’s the thing about business, isn’t it? There’s no such thing as a steady paycheck. That goes out the window. You have to get comfortable with that life and I feel like for a lot of people, maybe they’re not so aware of just quite what that looks like when you’re in the midst of it and when you’re living it. But for some people but for me, that’s part of the fun it’s figuring out where the next, how we’re gonna strike a deal or whatever, or make some, where the next paycheck’s gonna come from, so to speak.

Hannah: 12:09

It’s true. It’s true you do have to get used to things being less secure, but the counter of that that I would say is there is no career I can think of other than dentistry that better places you if you wanted to explore something entrepreneurial, because what other career can you work two days a week and actually make enough to support yourself and that frees up three days a week to support something else? That really like? When I first decided to try, when I applied for the Accelerator Program, I remember that telling my parents and my mom was like you’ve always got dentistry there, like you’re in a really strong position, give it a go and if not, you go back to dentistry. I feel like that gives us such a platform to explore these things and I think people should at least I think it’s something that I feel extremely grateful for and I think people should kind of allow that to give them a little bit of freedom to try.

Dr James: 13:04

Do you know what? You also make a good point there as well, because ultimately we have this for me. Here’s how I look at life. This is getting a little philosophical now, but I would rather spend my whole life trying different things, and maybe they’re not necessarily going to plan, than go to my death bed and wonder if I could have, would have, should have done all of those things the whole way there. That is the thing, because even if I feel. I would beat the heck out of myself when I was on my death bed, and just so I can. Basically, the reason I live my life the way I do is so I can avoid that one day. Okay.

Hannah: 13:38

I was just avoiding regret. That was all I’m living for.

Dr James: 13:41

I know that day is going to come. I know that day is going to come. What give you the confidence to take the leap? Because let me just share a little bit of an anecdote myself, I mean for me personally. I don’t think people are aware sometimes of how much you have to bust through up here in this head, okay, when you want to go on this path A lot of doubt, a lot of imposter syndrome, a lot of maybe naysayers, a little people who think that it won’t work out, people who are risk averse, maybe on your shoulder a little bit, maybe reminding you every once in a while that things are not as secure as they seem and you know, maybe you should not take the risk. What gave you, what was the thing that gave you the push and made you decide, actually, I’m going to set up this tech company and it’s going to be awesome. Well there’s a one moment.

Hannah: 14:27

I don’t think I never really had that thought process of my mind. I’m going to be completely honest, I never like, when I quit my associate position, to do entrepreneur first, I genuinely believe this is something I’m going to do for six months and then I’m going to come back to dentistry. So I never in my head thought, oh, here it is, I’m going to, like, start this business. I just thought it was kind of a step by step process, at least in my mind, how I articulated to myself. But the thing that gave me confidence was that I think at number one I’d got into a program that I knew wasn’t that easy to get to and that in itself just made me think, ah, I may as well, this is like as I will give this a go, and I think also just having that slightly programmatic few months to start learning the process. But you’re completely right. I mean constantly have on imposter syndrome, constantly have doubts. I’m spending my time on the right things, even now. But I mean I would say the most challenging time for me was actually once I finished that program and then you were going out into the world and you were starting to get customers and you were starting to get investors and things like that, because there was no support of that program around you to like feel like you’re in startup school. You were just kind of having to do it yourself and I remember that being an extremely tough time, just mentally rather than anything else, just kind of figuring out what, what you’re building, how you know, how you’re going to stretch yourself as a business, all of those things 100 percent and the life that you live now, compared to when you were working as an associate.

Dr James: 16:07

I feel like before I created dentists who invest, before I created my business online, I always thought you have an expect, you have expectations versus reality, just like on Instagram. You know what I mean Instagram versus reality, expectations versus reality. And I feel like the entrepreneur side is like a very Instagramable life. You know, when I think entrepreneur, I have this connotation of somebody on a yacht, you know with a moe. You know having some fun with me.

Hannah: 16:34

So far from my life, yeah.

Dr James: 16:36

I wish I had the time to do that is what I was going to say next, because the one thing here’s the biggest thing Expectations different from reality for me on this path and I want to hear what you think is what your relationship is with this as well and just a moment is just how many hours of the day you spent working just to keep the ship afloat. Ok, yeah, and I think everyone would be stunned or maybe not so stunned If they knew how much in my life I spent making PowerPoint presentations really molly. Every day, every single day, I’m making something. So my question to you is, hannah expectations versus reality. What was the thing that stunned you the most about your entrepreneurial path that you didn’t necessarily expect before you got into it? Real quick, guys. I put together a special report for dentists entitled the seven costly and potentially disastrous mistakes that dentists make whenever it comes to their finances. Most of the time, dentists are going through these issues and they don’t even necessarily realize that they’re happening until they have their eyes opened, and that is the purpose of this report. You can go ahead and receive your free report by heading on over to wwwdentistunevestcom forward slash podcast report or, alternatively, you can download it using the link in the description. This report details the seven most common issues. However, most importantly, it also shows you how to fix them, and really looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

Hannah: 18:09

I think, just like I think it’s just how hard it is and how hard it will continue to be, and like to think that it’s like you’ve ever gone through a hard bit of it is complete naivety, because it’s only going to get harder and harder. But I mean just like right now I’m fundraising for our next round of investment and even that, inevitably, you’re going out to tens, like genuinely close to 100 investors and you’re pitching your business and you’re saying, please give me money. And obviously it’s a game of numbers. You’re going to get so many no’s and that process is really wearing. It’s like when you go and do loads of interviews and it’s absolutely not everyone’s going to accept you, and so that’s something that is a huge part of the process that I find to be quite wearing. It’s not all, you know, even if anything seems like success, there is so much challenge in achieving that and I think, just being an entrepreneur, you obviously feel that. And I suppose the other thing I mean I’m actually, in terms of like working hours, I’m pretty strict with myself. I kind of have to stop at a certain time. I have to do a gym class, have to have, like you know, breakfast, lunch and dinner at times I’m meant to and things like that. But the thing that I regardless of whether I’m putting boundaries for myself in that respect I’m always thinking about it. I mean the shower, I’m thinking about it. I’m like going to bed, I’m thinking about it. So, like the difference between dentistry at least this was my perception. I was what several years out of dental schools I’m sure it’s totally different for, like people who own their business and who are far more advanced in their dentistry of things, but at least my perception of dentistry when I was doing it was there was no work to do once I left practice, dental notes excluded, obviously, but apart from that it wasn’t something that occupied my mind all the time, whereas with with Karopi that is very much the case.

Dr James: 20:06

Yeah, another thing, cool, yeah, fair enough. Another thing that surprised me was just how much, no matter what you make in terms of terms of turnover, just how quickly that can evaporate because of business expenses, and when you hire people, holy moly it actually doesn’t matter.

Hannah: 20:22

Holy moly.

Dr James: 20:24

Completely agree. It just evaporates, doesn’t it? And it looks, your turnover can look amazing on paper, but by the time everybody’s paid, the people who are helped you make that money, or paid, and then you’ve you’ve put in system, in place systems to make you know to continue the fact that it’s profitable and that continue you know generating turnover. By the time those are all squared up, just how much is left over every single time. Honestly, it never ceases to amaze me. It really doesn’t, and you’ll feel like I’m sure you’ll feel like that as well, but that was one of the things that caught me off guard the most, and that and the time thing, the time thing is crazy. I feel like you have to do it with this and I’m pointing to my heart for anybody listening to this afterwards it has to be a passion, it’s it’s not to be 100 percent, it’s not a career, it’s a lifestyle.

Hannah: 21:14

That’s the thing you have. You have to really care about it, you have to really believe in it, because there’s going to be times when it’s just really like, not pleasant, and if you don’t really care about the thing you’re doing, then it would be, I imagine, far easier to think OK, probably this isn’t worth my time, why am I not, you know, doing a nice associate position. But I think if you really really believe, or at least you know you really want to see your vision made real, then that kind of sustains you.

Dr James: 21:44

I’m going to let everybody in on a little bit of a hack as well, because there’ll be a lot of people listening to this who think to themselves I want to start a business, but I don’t really know what. What if it takes off? What if it doesn’t? Here’s the hack for you people, ok, in the audience. Create a online presence on social media based around what you enjoy related to a group of professionals, related to a group of people that only you can, and that’s your niche. So what I mean? Like, if we think about it, dentists who invest it’s money for dentists. Be with me. So it’s not. We’re not reinventing the wheel. We’re just amalgamating two things that were never amalgamated before. And here’s the thing when you create that group, when you create that online presence, see how many people come and follow it, see how many people join, and if you’re enough people join, you can tell there must be interest. So therefore, there’s a business. If you have enough eyes on you, there’s a business, just like that. So that’s the hack for anybody. You can find out if you’ve got a viable business before you’ve even got a business. Are you with me? And the amazing thing about internet and tech, which Hannah will agree to an extent, because she’s got a lot of people working under her. But the amazing thing about business and tech is when you create stuff online, your overheads are actually quite low if you’re selling programs and selling courses, because the content you can use over and over again. So that is my hack. That is the 2022 hack for everybody who wants to start a business and also also get comfortable with talking on camera, because if you can get comfortable with talking on camera and you enjoy it and people gravitate towards you, that is also a massive hack for your business that’s going to get you so much exposure. Those are my two hacks on starting a business. For anybody who’s listening. Hannah, give us your business hacks for 2022, how to start a business.

Hannah: 23:28

Mine aren’t really business hacks, but the thing I would say, if you are interested in exploring anything different, it’s actually just like it’s easy to think oh God is like what if this isn’t going to work? And things like that. If you just see everything as a learning exercise, like, okay, it doesn’t matter if this like wins or loses, if I’ve learned something from the process of trying, then that’s a success and that’s literally the product I take away from this. And I think if you do that and quite often actually again in the kind of more challenging times of program, just like if I’m still learning, then this is worth my time. If I’m not learning anymore, then Maybe, maybe it’s not for me anymore and then that for me always just gives me, it sustains me, I suppose, because then you you’re like I am actually gaining something, regardless of how this turns out, and it just takes a little bit of the pressure off, whatever the venture or the idea that you want to explore is. That would be my hack, but I suppose that could be applied to anything that is business.

Dr James: 24:26

No, it’s cool, though, because you have to get. Oh, there’s your cat in the background.

Hannah: 24:29

I’m so sorry. It’s like he knows when I’m on video camera. There’s two of them, they’re so attention, see.

Dr James: 24:37

That’s so good. Well, you know what. Gary V speaks a lot about that as well. I don’t know. If you listen to Gary V, you’re fine I actually don’t.

Hannah: 24:44

I was recently introduced to not to him like in real life, literally to him on video. I hadn’t been exposed to him before.

Dr James: 24:52

Gary V is a cool guy, so he just he basically speaks about entrepreneurship and he also speaks about how kindness and empathy and EQ or Actually, some of the biggest business hacks of 2022 again particularly in the, I’d say probably time. Well, yeah. Well, there you go. Yeah, it wasn’t just, it wasn’t like in 2021. They weren’t any good. Are you make a good point? Like they are, I guess what I guess what he highlights is how underrated they are. Okay, and what do you? What he means by that is, basically, the essence of business is the more positive connections you can have With as many people as possible. That’s your network, and the bigger your network, the more likely you are to succeed. So, guess what? How do you make friends? How do you keep friends? You be a good person, you be kind and you have EQ. You know, yeah, we’re underrated. Everybody thinks this is another thing about, I think about business, hannah, and it’d be interesting to hear your thoughts Out of the other, no doubt, numerous successful entrepreneurs that you’ve met. But I feel like everybody has the misconception that you have to be some sort of cutthroat, ruthless, border-oom animal to succeed in the business world. Actually, it’s quite. It’s more about how many people you can share a vision with, how many people you can bring into your circle and have them like you and be friends with you. That’s what I’ve always noticed. You know what I mean.

Hannah: 26:12

I completely yeah, I completely agree with that. People who I have met over the over the years, who are, like you know, successful business people who’ve sold companies that we’ve all heard of, probably they’re all just nice people. They all just actually want to help you for free. They play it forward If you wanted to, like you know, you reach out to them with an email. They’ve never met you before and say, please, I would love to pick your brain about X. More often than not they have actually done that and so sorry about she can have to get more screen and so. So, yeah, I completely agree with that. I think it’s a notion that people have to be mean and cutthroat and like. This ridiculously masculine perception of what a good business person is. I think hopefully is something that is Becoming, outdated.

Dr James: 27:09

Mmm, and it’s not even good for business. That’s the thing.

Hannah: 27:13


Dr James: 27:14

I agree, it’s not. And, yeah, like it’s. It’s genuinely just about being the best person that you can, and you’ll actually be better at business as well. Your bottom line will get bigger. Honestly, it’s actually crazy. It’s just not what the perception is. It’s it’s like the received wisdom I love the term received wisdom because it’s hand-me-down knowledge and it’s often incorrect for you with me, and that is that is exactly exactly exactly what we’re talking about right now. But, yeah, we’ve talked a lot about, oh, actually, one more thing I was going to say yeah, so when you said something, just two seconds ago actually, and it was you said about people who are in those positions who will help you, yeah, without any expectation of what they’ll get in return, the number of times that I have Not not, not purposely, not even intentionally done this, but someone said you know, oh, jim’s, what do you think to this? Or can we do this Together? And then I’ll say, yeah, let’s shoot a podcast, yeah, let’s appear on your platform, or just without any agenda whatsoever, just genuinely, because I want to help that person and I just want to see their platform do well. And then the number of times they’ve come back, maybe three months down the line and they’re like hey, jim’s, is this really neat opportunity you should hear about? And then that actually, that’s actually paid forwards into hard cash. You know at some point and it never was supposed to be that it was never the intention, it just Happened to be, and I feel like again for people who Want to start on their entrepreneurial journey, understanding that one key concept that if you help as many people as possible, will help you so much to make a profitable business further down the line something that just does not seem related and also, conversely, ask if it was.

Hannah: 28:59

You know, if you want to help, do ask for it from people who’ve done it before. Like I actually get a fair number of messages from dentists who are interested in trying, you know, doing different stuff, and I will always jump on a call with people who message me because because inevitably I’ve got slightly weird now air area of knowledge that not a lot of people have but like do, if there’s people who are doing something that is kind of you think they might know, have experience of what you’re interested, just ask them for help, ask them if they’ll chat to you about it, because more often than not they actually will.

Dr James: 29:35

You know there’s a name. You know that weird knowledge, as you called it a second ago, which I’m going to. I’m going to attempt to describe and say that what you mean is starting a business and all the stuff that comes along with it, and even the fact we’re doing this facebook live, like you know, like this is Stuff that this is a situation that probably 90 percent of people don’t find themselves in. 99 percent of people Are you with me? Which gives you this area or body of knowledge that is unique to you and represents all these unique experiences? Are you with me? So this, that type of knowledge, there’s a name for it. Okay, that is called specific knowledge. Okay, have you heard of that before?

Hannah: 30:15

Not not specifically actually.

Dr James: 30:17

Ha. Ha, there we go. Well, I see what you did there, but, yeah, specific knowledge. So what it is, specific knowledge is knowledge that you cannot get from books, you cannot get from youtube, you can’t get from anywhere else. You can only get it from human beings. Okay, it’s a bit like let’s put it in dental terms if you want to drill a tooth, you can read about how to drill a tooth. You know the to the book might say put 10 grams of pressure on the tooth with the high speed, the rough diamond, whatever it is. Yeah, but what does that actually mean? You’ll never be able to do that unless you do it yourself, and that’s why you need tutors or mentors. Be with me. So, conversely, the same thing happens in business. Okay, and the more specific knowledge you have, the more knowledge that only you can, that you have, that you possess, that can’t be obtained from anywhere else, the more valuable a person you are In terms of what you can charge and also in terms of how much you can help people. But guess what? You never get this specific knowledge unless you do these completely, seemingly random, unrelated events and you know things that you find you wind up. You know doing as a business owner that you might do normally and inadvertently, you create this reservoir of information, which is really, really, really useful to you, because you can’t get anywhere else, and also to other people. How cool is that.

Hannah: 31:35

Um, you’ve made me think of a. I don’t know if you’ve heard Steve Jobs. He talks about a similar thing. He I think it’s one of his like he does a speech at some graduation and he’s talking about all these random classes he does and how, when he looks back, that you can connect the dots of how they all became so important to him growing apple like, doing like a, like a, a hypography class, for example, and obviously apple products have got this like perfect fonts and them and things like that. So he goes through and it’s just really really fascinating because what looking forward might have looked like these really kind of Esoteric, different things that wouldn’t ever relate to an like a end point. They all link together in the end. So yeah, I wonder if that’s kind of elements of that specific knowledge.

Dr James: 32:17

It does. It sounds like it’s the specific knowledge concept, just under a different guys and described in a different way, but yeah, it’s an interesting one. It’s an interesting way of looking at the world and for people who are listening here, right there, listening, thinking to themselves, how do I start with my entrepreneurial journey? Actually, a lot of being an entrepreneur comes from just having a ton of specific knowledge, then somehow monetizing that. That’s basically what it is like. Look at, look at the crypto, like where, where can you get that information? So, hence why I created the crypto course, and that’s one of the main products we, dentus, who invest. Are you with me? Because you can’t. I never, I never learned about crypto with that in mind. It was only you know, even even just over the last week. No, when did I learn about that concept? Maybe about a month ago. That I kind of look back With 2020 hindsight, you know, and I thought that’s what I was doing. I just didn’t realize it. So, please, but an entrepreneurs in the audience, that’s the knowledge that you need, specific knowledge. There you go. It’s got a name. That’s the concept. That’s what it is. Yeah, how cool is that? You know when I talk about this stuff, honestly, I guess, so excited because it’s just, it is actually really fun. You know, and I Big part of me feels blessed that I realized this stuff and I hope that I I share the when I speak about this. I’m sharing the seed, I’m planting the seeds of enthusiasm and other people and this can be the conversation that maybe Ignites other people’s entrepreneurial journey. That’s the fun, that’s what it’s about, you know. Anyway, are you still there? Oh yeah, I thought we lost you there for a second. But yeah, but how cool is that though? Right, yeah extremely cool.

Hannah: 33:51

Yeah, and I just said your enthusiasm is infectious, so I suppose that’s an element of it.

Dr James: 33:57

That’s good, awesome, Cool. Anyway, I’m gonna do a little less talking from now on, cause I’ve been talking a lot and it’s supposed to be about Hannah. So, Hannah, can you? We’ve talked about this a little bit, Koroku. I had a go at describing it. I’ve given everybody an idea of what it is. Could you tell us a little bit more about Koroku, what it is and how it works?

Hannah: 34:16

So Koroku runs in like your web browser. It has loads of sophisticated technology in the background that recognizes patterns and what you’re doing over and over again to then optimize your workflow and then you can actually teach it as well so you can customize your workflows. But what it does is it creates really intelligent templates that kind of reduce the downsides of using templates. I potentially leaving in, let’s say, carries risk high, slash medium, slash low, and you notice six months later that you actually never adjusted, that You’re never gonna get stuff like that with Koroku. So it reduces the amount of time you’re spending on your notes, but it’s also improving the thoroughness and it’s arguably even kind of improving the quality of the conversations, cause you can focus on the patient in front of you rather than trying to juggle doing your notes alongside having these conversations. So that’s what Koroku is. And actually if anybody wants to give it a go, we put together a code for Dentist who Invest members and I can send that on the group afterwards.

Dr James: 35:19

Yeah, that’ll be. Actually. Do you know what? You could even pop that in the chat if you wanted Hannah for people to know Perfect. And then what we’re gonna do is I’m gonna be publishing this on Dentist who Invest later and uploading it as a video Cause, the Facebook Live, the Facebook itself. It didn’t exactly quite go to plan tonight, so hence why we had to jump on Zoom, so we had to shift across to that, otherwise it was gonna be a lie. But yeah, you showed me Koroku the other day and what you do is basically you have little segments of sentences, don’t you? And then you basically click it and construct your own notes.

Hannah: 35:52

Exactly. It just turns everything into clickable notes, so you don’t have to do any typing, so you just click through and it will fill in your notes from that. It also then has logic built into it. So let’s say, you want smoking cessation advice to come out when the patient is smoking. You don’t want it to come out when they’re not. It’s able to kind of cascade that information in the right place, and so that’s how it makes Dentist a little bit more efficient.

Dr James: 36:17

A little bit more stressed.

Hannah: 36:18

A lot more efficient. Hopefully as well, yeah.

Dr James: 36:21

Yeah, cause when I was clicking on it, when I was, you can make the notes pretty like so quickly, can’t you? Cause you just click on it and click all the little buttons. But yeah, anyway, worth tracking out. So we were saying something that said oh yeah, that’s what I wanted to ask. Actually, hannah, I always like to round things off before we throw things out to the audience, throw the mic out to the audience, with a little bit of a summary from yourself. Words of wisdom, hannah’s top tips, hannah’s best pearls oh no, entrepreneurship. Let’s go short and fast, let’s go.

Hannah: 36:54

No, you actually warned me that you were gonna ask me this and I haven’t actually done more to prepare for it. Let me think of best advice I’ve received and kind of pearls of wisdom. I would say if you want to try something out, don’t turn it into a big thing in your head. Just break it down into its smallest parts and just get started, get yourself. The first step you make is gonna be the hardest, but if you just break it down into little steps, get started like in that way. I think that’s one thing I would say. And then the other thing and I don’t think I’m good enough at this, actually my co-founder, jay, is excellent at this is just ask for help. I would quite often sit there trying to struggle making some weird spreadsheet and Jay would just like just speak to our accountants. They can tell you how to do it and it just there’s always people who know who have that specific knowledge. Ask them, cause they will. They want to share their knowledge and they want to help you. So basically, ask for help as much as possible. I love that, that’s a very simple advice.

Dr James: 37:51

No, I love, but here’s the thing the simple advice is the best advice you know, and I feel like if we just started describing some unbelievably elaborate concept, you know a lot of people would turn off, and maybe even it’s just about getting the fundamentals correct before you start. And you were when you said they’re about asking for help on the entrepreneurial path. It’s so important. Okay, cause it’s not just, you’re not just. What you’ll often find is, when you go down this road, it’s not just one field, it’s an amalgamation or a marrying of a thousand different fields into one, into one person. So there is no way it just totally defies logic in every way, shape and fashion that you can understand every single one of those fields that are going to marry together to become your business. So the only thing, like for me, when you break it down and you think about it in those terms you must, you must, you must, you must, because if you don’t, there is yeah, it’s you’re not. I’m convinced you won’t get very far. I am, I’m so convinced you won’t get very far, and I actually think you make a good point just on a wider scheme or in a wider terms, and what I mean by that is. A lot of the things that hold people back from going down this path are psychological, and one of them one of the reasons we don’t ask questions is cause there’s a little bit of pride that creeps in sometimes and says, hmm, I don’t want help, I can do this on my own, you know. But if you can let go of that, you can almost remove ego always. If you can almost just think differently. That is the biggest thing. That’s gonna help you go down the path of creating a side gig. And I’m gonna just say one more thing, hannah, before we throw things out to the audience. You know that hack I’m gonna that we talked about earlier, about starting a social media platform and using that to test the waters on whether or not you’ve got something successful or a concept or a brand or something that you feel could be a feasible business. That is how you test it out for completely free, on the internet. Okay, please, I’m gonna double down on that. Everybody again, it’s for everybody. Again, if anybody out there is listening and they’re thinking about a side gig, anything in the world, I’m gonna make a side. I’m gonna make a business up off top of my head. If you like comic books and you’re a dentist and they have to be Superman from the 1960s. I don’t know anything like that. How are we gonna find out if lots of dentists like comic books which are Superman from the 1960s? We go ahead and we make a Facebook page, make a group? Yeah, you can test it out for free. Anything in the world, any concept, no matter how abstract, no matter how crazy. That’s how you do it. That is my gift to everybody in this webinar and for some reason, that’s really good.

Hannah: 40:29

Yeah, that’s really good. Yeah, it is.

Dr James: 40:32

Yeah, because there’s a saying. There’s a saying that I love. That saying is attention is currency on the internet, because if you have enough eyes on you, you can always monetize. Eventually, attention is currency. So the second that that page hits however many members 1,000 member, 2,000, 3,000 members you’ve got a business like that because attention is currency. And there’s a second part to that sentence, and that is reputation is leverage. Do you like that?

Hannah: 41:03

I actually feel like we may have discussed this before and I think I found it. I spent a lot of time thinking about it then as well.

Dr James: 41:10

You know what, you know what, when? Everybody. If you spend enough time with me, you realise I often repeat myself a lot, so that’s probably what happens.

Hannah: 41:16

That’s not what I was saying.

Dr James: 41:18

That’s probably just what happened there, hannah, but for everybody who’s listening, there you go. One of the most powerful sayings, one of the most powerful statements that encourage me to start treading down this entrepreneurial path, route, journey, all of those things. You’re welcome everyone, awesome, okay, so Hannah has spoke very eloquently on Kuroku tonight and, being an entrepreneur, I would love it if we have some budding entrepreneurs in the audience who’d like to ask Hannah some questions. Just pop them in the chat and we can come to you when we are ready. This is your opportunity to ask someone who’s been unbelievably successful in leaving dentistry. That I can say I mean explored that there are career paths outside of dentistry 100%, 100%, because this is the thing it’s about trying, and you know what, even if it’s not just to leave dentistry, even if it’s just about complementing your dentistry, I mean, for me it’s just such a life-enhancing thing. It’s just. It’s very easy to have what’s known as teeth tunnel vision.

Hannah: 42:22

I’ve never heard that phrase before. I really like that.

Dr James: 42:24

Teeth tunnel vision. I feel like you can intuitively tell what teeth tunnel vision is just from the description. Right, it’s when you go through life with a pair of blinkers on and the only thing you can see in front of you is teeth. You know what I mean. I actually did a podcast on it with Jazz Gulatti, who is another very yeah, he’s awesome. Yeah, he’s a cool guy. So I did that, I did it on that, and we were just talking about all the ways that you can enhance your life by thinking a little bit outside the box, and that’s what this pathway is. But yeah, teeth, tunnel vision that’s something that speaks to me big time, big time, big time, big time. And for me, even though you know that’s the thing I do actually like dentistry a bit like you, yeah, me too. Yeah, yeah, I do, I do actually like it. I just found there was other stuff that I liked as well, and I liked even more.

Hannah: 43:16

I think the thing that I found and continue to find is the thing that brings me joy as variety, like it’s not. I know that’s not a unique opinion, but being able to do a little bit of more than one thing allows me to appreciate each of those elements far more, whereas I think if I was doing lots of one thing over and over again, it would be easy for me to take it for granted. So that’s the thing that I most enjoy variety.

Dr James: 43:42

That’s cool and you know what Like for me when I get out of bed in the morning and I go. You know, when I was going to the dental surgery and if someone would have said to me, maybe you’ll feel like this as well. And actually if someone would have said to me, you know, I love dentistry, I liked it. Okay. If someone would have said to me, james, you have to drill this tooth today for free or put this tooth, I would have said no way in heck, you have to. You know that’s the point I’m here to. You know I like my job, but there has to be pay, yeah, and as this, creating content, filming this, what we’re doing right now, making stuff for dentistry and vest I would do all of that for free and that’s how you know that. I want to take that energy and I want to throw it across the screen and I want to throw it out there for everybody else and just to have a think and just think to themselves. Actually it’s possible to do something that you would literally do for free as a living and that could be out there.

Hannah: 44:38

I think it was a fair amount of dentistry for free. Yeah, maybe I’m just not enough of a salesperson. No, no, I completely agree with you it can’t feel like work. If it feels like work, then or at least I mean, at least I find that with what I do with Kuroky now it can’t feel like work. Otherwise it’s something that you don’t want to do, whereas if it’s something that you want to do, then it doesn’t feel like a hardship to do so much of it.

Dr James: 45:07

Cool. Are you a big reader? Do you read a lot of books, podcasts.

Hannah: 45:11

I am a big reader, a huge podcast listener, but actually I don’t listen to loads and loads of work and startup related stuff. I’m actually a big novel reader and my podcasts are eclectic, but again not specifically work related, so probably don’t have any good recommendations on the topic you’re looking for.

Dr James: 45:31

Yeah, you slightly anticipated where I was going with that question, just then.

Hannah: 45:36

But in fairness, I can still do recommendations. So things that I would recommend. This is so obvious. But lean startup If you’re ever thinking of exploring, testing out an idea, highly, highly, highly recommend that book. It’s great. And then, what else would I recommend? Shoe Dog by the chap who founded Nike. I’m not sure if you’ve read that. That’s his. It’s such an easy read, but it’s just fascinating. That’s how he came to start Nike. Recommend that as well. And then podcasts there was a series by the guy who started Y Combinator and it’s called Startup School again, which was really interesting and covers so much great, great content. So they would be my recommendations.

Dr James: 46:23

Cool, cool, awesome. Well, I’m always going to recommend Gary V because I literally love his stuff. He’s not for everybody. He’s, yeah, he’s, he’s. He’s a very high energy. Some people say he swears too much, but if you can look past that, then there’s a lot of gold dust in there. There’s a lot of. My favorite type of podcasts and content are the things that you can listen to, and they’ll be they’ll. Someone will say something and it’s so sage-like and deep that you take it and you ponder it for such a, you know, maybe like a day or two afterwards, and then, once you fully digested it, it’s stuff that you can implement into your business, just like every day, just like that, and that’s what I get, those moments, a lot when I listen to him Interesting.

Hannah: 47:09

I need to. I need to commit more time to Gary V in that case 100%.

Dr James: 47:14

It’s basically how to be an entrepreneur 101 in 2022. That’s the essence of the podcast. Yeah, tea with Gary V, tea with Gary V. And as for, oh, it’s worth it, you’ll love it. I’m just looking over my shoulder because I want to remind myself traffic. I can’t really say it. It’s by Russell Brunson. I think his name is Russell Brunson and he’s the guy that started ClickFunnels.

Hannah: 47:41

I don’t know ClickFunnels. Am I being really dim? I do not recognize that.

Dr James: 47:46

No, no, it’s cool. Clickfunnels is you basically design these little bespoke web pages and then they have. You can download ebooks from them or you can download whatever you need from them, really, and it means that you don’t have to have a website because it’s on this website, ClickFunnels. So it’s a really it’s. It’s a really quick way of creating a website and having some sort of lead magnet or having something that people can use to interact with. So say like, for example, you want to, you just wanted a quick little web page to host a QR code. It has all these little templates and what have you? Then you use it. The only downside is it’s like 200 quid a month, so it’s really expensive. So it’s for bigger businesses, so you need to be using it a lot to get your money’s worth for it. But anyway, his book Traffic Signals, I think it’s called I’m reading at the minute and it is so cool, Okay. Okay, Basically, how to refine. It’s for people that already have an online business and it’s how to refine that and how to get the most from ads and how to get the how to, how to create those so that there’s interactive as possible, which sounds really dull, Okay.

Hannah: 48:54

No, no, actually that sounds really interesting. I think I’ll. Yeah, I’m going to write that down.

Dr James: 49:01

And, yeah, you should check that out. It’s a really good book. And then another book that I’ve read recently that I have been blown away by. I’m just looking at my bookshelf Okay, let me just grab it. Yes, is this book, which is the Almanac of Naval Ravikant, and this book is flipping phenomenal. Honestly, it’s about 200 pages and it’s effectively his best thought. The guy’s an entrepreneur, the guy’s got a multimillion-pound business and he posts a lot online. He’s got a big online presence and he basically asks somebody to take his best tweets and his best content, transcribe them, put them into categories and put them in this book. Okay, and the guy the guy is a philosopher, the guy’s a sage. You know, he’s so intelligent and he’s one of these high-performing business people as well. So when you’re reading it because it’s the best of the best of the things that he’s ever posted you’ve maybe got 200 pages, like I say, and maybe you’ve got like two, three, four quotes on each page. Okay, so you’ve really got like a structure or a story or anything like that. You just read it, you kind of meander through it. You can even read the end and then you can read it back to front if you want. It doesn’t make any difference. You know what I mean, but the stuff in there is so. It just makes me see. It just made me see so many things in a different way. And there was one quote that I really, really, really liked that I’m going to look up just now because I sent it to my dad because I thought it was so awesome and this is one of my favorite quotes from the book, and this is about entrepreneurship and how it can enhance your life, and the quote is I’m always working in vertical commas around working. It looks like work to others, but it feels like play to me, and that’s how I know no one can ever compete with me on it, because I’m just playing. For 16 hours a day I play. If others want to compete with me, they’re going to have to work for 16 hours a day and they’re going to lose, because no one can ever work as much as you can play.

Hannah: 51:03

That is really good.

Dr James: 51:05

And that good.

Hannah: 51:07

That’s a good yeah.

Dr James: 51:08

That is so cool, isn’t it? And you know what that’s when you find your super skill, that’s when you find your passion, when you can do something that doesn’t feel like work, because no one can ever flip and catch you.

Hannah: 51:20

I agree with that. Yeah, that seems like a wise man.

Dr James: 51:24

It’s a really, really good book. In fact, I’d probably, if anybody is thinking about picking up their you know their next thing, that they want to their next book, that they want to explore this path, I would pick that book up as a point of, as a point. This is such a good book is one of my favorite books.

Hannah: 51:42

Could I ask what the chap’s name was? It was Almanac of.

Dr James: 51:45

Almanac of Neval Ravacanth Ravacanth, and you know what that is. That is the last time that I’m ever going to mention that book on this podcast tonight, Hannah, and the reason is I’m going to start losing friends if I keep talking about it, because I’ve been banging on about it so much for the last few weeks and I actually mentioned it on another podcast the other night, so that is officially the last time that has happened. There you go, guys.

Hannah: 52:11

You’re on a line in the sand.

Dr James: 52:13

That is your final opportunity to ever learn that gem. There you go, guys. Hannah, we’re going to wrap up things now. Would you like to say anything in conclusion about people who are thinking about starting on this path?

Hannah: 52:25

There would be. I mean two. I mean these aren’t really conclusions, but more just kind of final things to say, which is number one if you are interested and if you think I might have any relevant knowledge, please do feel free to reach out. And if you know if I can help, I will help. And also, if you want to kind of explore working in technology with one foot still in dentistry, know that actually there’s. We offer loads of careers at Caroku for part time, part time work with dental background. So do again reach out. If you want to just kind of be exposed to startups and slightly different thing to clinical dentistry, yeah, reach out. Happy to support that. And then finally, just thanks for having me. It’s been great. I will, I will. I will comment on the group with the code. So if there’s any new people who haven’t tried Caroku before, do just use that code and we can add on a few extra months for you to try that out and see what you think.

Dr James: 53:28

Dentistry. Yeah, that’s a dentistry invest discount. That’s a bonus for people who are on the dentistry invest page. But, yeah, no, yeah, well, there you go, guys. I mean, how cool is that? You know, hannah, for anybody, I know there’s lots of dentists who want to explore other things outside of dentistry and not necessarily leave. And Hannah’s just said, right here, right now, there’s an opportunity to work together with her at Caroku. So there you go. That’s, there’s a low hanging fruit for you, right there, anybody who’s wants to start exploring that path. So, yeah, reach out, reach out.

Hannah: 53:57

Thank you so much for your time it’s been great and thank you for everyone for coming and listening on your Sunday evening.

Dr James: 54:03

My absolute pleasure, hannah, and we’ll get you back on the platform very soon. Thank you so much. Looking forward to it. Came along tonight. This was loads of fun when we talk about this stuff. When I talk about this stuff, I actually do get excited, because I know how much it changed my life and I know how much it can help other people change their lives too, and that’s why I’m passionate, you know, and that’s why it’s such a huge thing and it’s so much fun as well. So, yeah, like I said, guys, thank you so much for coming along. Thank you for attending this webinar. It’s been a lot of fun for us both to present big love, and we’ll catch up very soon. I’ll see you later. Bye.

Hannah: 54:33

Bye, bye everyone.

Dr James: 55:08

I’m looking forward to seeing you on there.