Dentists Who Invest

Podcast Episode

Full Transcript

Dr James: 0:41

Fans of the Dentists who Invest podcast. If you feel like there was one particular episode in the back catalog in the anthology of Dentists who Invest podcast episodes that really, really, really was massively valuable to you, feel free to share that with a fellow dental colleague who’s in a similar position, so their understanding of finance can be elevated and they can hit the next level of financial success in their life. Also, as well as that, if you could take two seconds to rate and review this podcast, it would mean the world. To me, what that would mean is that it drives this podcast further in terms of reach, so that more dentists across the world can be able to benefit from the knowledge contained therein. Welcome, welcome to the Dentists who Invest podcast. What is up everybody? Welcome back to another episode of the Dentists who Invest podcast, episode number 69, if I’m not mistaken. You’ll also notice that there’s a new intro for the podcast. I’m a little bit in two minds about it. I think it’s an improvement from the old one, but I don’t know if it’s the definitive edition. So I’d like everybody to reach out to me about that. Give me your thoughts, give me your feedback, give me your honest opinions so I know if I need to change it or if I need to create something else. This episode is talking about trusts, and I am sat opposite a well-known CFA on the group called Rohit Rohela, and he is here to educate us on trusts. Rohit, how are you?

Rohit: 2:08

Hello, I’m very good James and how are you.

Dr James: 2:12

I’m 10 out of 10, mate, I’m a happy chappy. I’m pleased to be here and I’m excited to learn more about trust, because I’ve heard of trusts, but that’s about it really. So I’m hoping that you can enlighten us, because I know that they tend to come in useful when somebody has significant assets and they are planning to hand them on to their spouses, their next of kin, their kids, their family unless I’ve got the wrong end of the stick with Rohit. But that’s what, of course, you’re here today to educate us on. So maybe it might be nice just to start off by telling us a little bit about trusts and what they are. Start from the bottom up, simple terms, zero jargon, because, remember, a lot of people listening to this podcast would be just like me. They’ll have heard of trusts and that’s about it.

Rohit: 2:56

You know, james, you hit the nail right on the head. I’m a big proponent of keeping simple, so that’s what we’re going to do today. Now, the clue is right there in the word trust. So a trust is just an entity that you’re putting assets into and whoever runs it for you, you’re able to trust that person to manage it effectively for the benefit of other people you love and care for, and those are called the beneficiaries. So there are three entities in a trust. There’s the settler, who gives assets into the trust or puts assets into the trust. Then there is the trustee or the trustees, who manage the assets for the benefit of the third entity, which is the beneficiaries, so the people that ultimately are designated to benefit from the assets of the trust. That is the basic concept. Now there is a saying about trusts that if you don’t trust your beneficiaries, then you put your assets into the trust. That may well be true, and there are certain instances, which we’ll come to, which illustrate why that may be the case. But the overarching need is what I just stated shielding your assets from being withered away over time and also protecting them from tax. That is another reason to plan for it, but there are many others. There are many other reasons for it, which also covers your objectives, your long-term objectives, for your money. So we’ll talk about that as we go further into the discussion.

Dr James: 4:24

Absolutely. And when you say there’s other types, are we talking in thousands, or maybe it might be nice just to give us a little bit of a breakdown into the most common types there are out there?

Rohit: 4:35

Yep. So I would break it down into two categories. One is trust planning for individuals and the other one is trust planning for businesses. So we’re going to talk about these two. First. We can start with individual trusts. Now, within the individual segment, there is trust for inheritance tax planning and there are trusts for pension planning. So the most basic type of trust, which almost everyone knows about, is a life insurance based trust. So when you take out life insurance, what the life insurance company is giving you is an assurance that if you pass away during the term of that policy, it will pay out your next of kin, your family or your chosen beneficiary a certain sum of money. So that sum of money let’s call it £100,000, for example would go tax-free to the beneficiary. Now let’s take an example, if Mr dies and the policy pays out, say, £100,000 to Mrs, so that money has gone tax-free to the Mrs. But when Mrs goes and the children get that money, it will be subject to an inheritance tax of 40%. To prevent that from happening, what we recommend and any reasonable person should take out you know, if they’re taking out life insurance a trust. So what that trust does is it gets the assets when the policy pays out on death and the beneficiary ie the Mrs in this case can still get the money, but that will be a loan from the trust. So when she passes away and the children get that money, it is then repaid back from her estate to the trust. So there is no inheritance tax liability on it. So that gives you a clue as to how trust are used for inheritance tax mitigation. They are essentially separate from the individual’s estate and as such, the assets that pass from one generation to the other and closed in a trust or wrapped around in a trust will be exempt from inheritance tax. Obviously there are conditions which we’ll talk about, but that’s the basic premise of a trust. Does that give you a basic insight into?

Dr James: 6:45

what they are? Totally so. Is it fair to say they’re mainly for succession planning?

Rohit: 6:52

Yes, for individuals succession planning and transfer of wealth without incurring tax. So they are also used in conjunction with pensions in the same way as insurance. So I’ll give you another example. Let’s say we’re talking about Mr McGins, who is 55 or 60 years old, has now come up to retirement. He starts taking the benefits from his pension, but he chooses drawdown, so he doesn’t take all the benefits in one go, he chooses to phase it throughout his lifetime. Now what happens when Mr McGins passes away? Do you know?

Dr James: 7:29

No, I’m not sure.

Rohit: 7:31

Okay. So Mr McGins, if he’s viser than you and me, then he would have designated somebody that he loves we hope that is his wife and children as the nominee, as the beneficiary nominated in the pension. So let’s say it’s Mrs McGins, for example, she gets the money in the pension and then she passes away. So what do you think is going to happen to that pension money which went to Mrs McGins and before it goes to the children? What’s going to happen to it? We just touch upon it. Tax, absolutely the reddit word inheritance tax. So that would apply. So say there was 100,000 in the pension, 40,000 of that money will disappear in tax when the money passes from Mrs McGins to their children. To prevent that from happening, what do you do? Again, the same principle as the life insurance. You set up something called an asset preservation trust. So the pension money goes into the trust. Mrs McGins is able to take a loan from the trust to fund her income and capital needs on her death. When her property and other assets are sold, the loan is paid back to the trust. So it actually reduces her estate for inheritance tax purposes and it keeps the original capital that was there in the pension also free of inheritance tax. And there’s another important thing to note here it’s not just the original capital, it’s the growth, so you can invest in anything you like pretty much that’s permissible which includes investment funds that put money into the great companies of the world, which will generate growth for you over time. You can expect anywhere from around 5% to 8% growth, so the assets will grow far beyond your lifetime and they will pass on free of inheritance tax up to 125 years, so it can be multi-generational vehicle for passing on wealth.

Dr James: 9:20

I see, you know what, when I’m listening to all of this, it all sounds really great and I’m thinking to myself is there a catch? What’s the downside?

Rohit: 9:28

Well, the downside is that you have lost access to the capital. So once you put the money into a trust assuming you’re doing planning for your own estate the reason why people would choose to put money into a trust is because they want that money to pass away or pass down the generations. However, the good news is that there are innovations in trusts, just as there are innovations in many other fields. So the innovations in trusts have meant that there are variants of a standalone trust, if you like, the basic vanilla trust. There are other variants that can give you access to capital or income from the trust. So when we go into more detail, I’ll cover each of those trusts with you. But essentially, that’s what is possible. You can tailor, you can tinker the trust to get what you want, and that’s why it’s not something which you can pick off the shelf. You need to speak to an expert financial advisor or consultant who can look at your situation and advise you on what’s the right mix of trusts to choose.

Dr James: 10:39

You know what I actually think. Now is a good opportunity to go into those further types of trusts, because later on we’ll be talking about who needs a trust, when do we use it, etc. Etc. So, whilst we’re on the topic, maybe that might be where we take things next.

Rohit: 10:53

Sure, let’s do that. So let’s talk about inheritance tax planning. So for that I’m going to take the example again of Mr and Mrs Niggins. Let’s say they’ve got a house, savings and other assets worth 1.2 million pounds and they’ve got two lovely children who have been very good, very well behaved. So they want to give their assets to their children after they pass away. Now everybody in the UK gets a nil rate bank, which means up to that extent their estate is not going to be chargeable to inheritance tax, and that is 325,000 pounds. So between Mr and Mrs that combines or adds up to 650,000. What the government also gives you is something called the residence nil rate bank, which means if Mr and Mrs Niggins are passing on their main home to the children, then they get an additional 175,000 pounds per person. So you add all of this together, 650 plus 350 is a million pounds. So what you’ve got there is anything over a million pounds is going to be taxed at 40%. So we have said that their estate is worth 1 million and 200,000, 1.2 million. So on that 200,000, they’re going to pay 40% inheritance tax, which is 80,000 pounds. So 80,000 pounds of their hard-earned money, on which they’ve paid income tax, capital gains tax, is now again going to be taxed at 40%. How?

Dr James: 12:24

do you think they’ll?

Rohit: 12:24

feel about it.

Dr James: 12:26

Not great. That’s a lot A big chunk, a big whack gone.

Rohit: 12:31

Yeah, absolutely. So let’s say that they tell me their advisor it’s going to be me, isn’t it Any advisor they go to. Okay, that we want to save that 80,000 pounds of inheritance tax and we are happy to give away this 200,000 pounds to our children. So what I tell them is if you give that money to your children directly, say they give you 100,000 to each child and that child was to go away with that money and blow it up gambling, buying a nice car, whatever, so then they would have effectively wasted it away. So instead, what we do is we put that money into a trust so they can continue to be the trustee of that trust, with their children as the beneficiaries. So what it does for them is, after seven years of making the gift that’s the rules that the government has set after seven years, that gift they’ve made is fully outside of their estate. So they’ve saved 80,000 pounds in tax by gifting that money to a trust. Now that trust can be managed professionally, which we do. It can be put into investments, which means it will grow by about 5 to 8%. So if they’ve done it, when they are, say, 60 and they live to 90, you could expect that money that 100,000, to grow to about 500,000 or more, and all that goes tax-free to the children. So that’s the most basic type of trust that normally is good for people who don’t want income, don’t want capital, want a vehicle for wealth transfer. Now Mr and Mrs Miggins haven’t got that much money and they think they want to get some income from the trust as well. So what they do to get the income is they take out a special type of trust, which is called the discounted gift trust. That gives them access to 5% tax-deferred income, so essentially income without paying any tax, at 5% of what they’re putting in. So say, they’re putting in 200,000 into the trust, they can take 10,000, which is 5% of 200,000 as income for the rest of their lives without paying any tax on it. And that’s the power of this special type of trust. Now that’s not all. With this type of trust you get a discount for inheritance tax purposes. So that discount varies on your health, on your age. So, essentially, what HMRC allows us to do is to estimate how long the doughnut so in this case Mrs Miggins are expected to live and based on that figure they get a discount for inheritance tax purposes on day one. Now this discount could vary from 30% to 50%. It could be lower if your life expectancy is low and you’ve got an illness. But for most people assuming they are in reasonably good health, they’re in their 60s, 70s they can get up to 50% or more discount, which means, let’s say in this case the discount was 50%, so they would have saved inheritance tax on 100,000 pounds straight away and the remainder would go away in the next seven years. So these are the two primary types of trusts which are used by people who are either looking to gift everything away or those that are happy to give the capital but need the income from the trust.

Dr James: 16:02

But there’s a third type as well.

Rohit: 16:04

I’m not done with this yet. There’s a third type Now. That is for people who are selfish, who don’t like giving things away. Right, sounds like you and me, we are lovely.

Dr James: 16:15

Oh, speak for yourself. Speak for yourself, man. I live to give, I live to give.

Rohit: 16:19

You live to give. That’s my mission as well, so that’s fantastic. We give away knowledge. We give away love, don’t we Absolutely?

Dr James: 16:26

Absolutely, and you know what? Here’s the thing. Here’s the thing about the internet. You give out love, you give out knowledge and it makes its way back to you because you’re leveraging your love and knowledge with content, and that’s an interesting way of looking at the internet. Anyway, we digress.

Rohit: 16:41

Yeah, no, that’s it, absolutely. The internet and the democratization of knowledge and sharing of knowledge, advice. It’s amazing, absolutely. So there’s a third type of trust for people who do not want to let go of their capital but they say that any growth on it, that’s fine. I will leave that for my children. That is called a gift and loan trust. So it’s really a clever concept if you think about it. So you’re making a loan to the trust of your capital. So say you want you’re giving away in this case 200,000. So you give 200,000 as a loan, which you can get back from the trust, and the other 100,000 is a gift. So Mrs Megan said let’s keep 100,000 for ourselves and let’s put the other 100,000 in the trust, so you can have a combination. But the beauty of this is the growth part. On the whole, 200,000 will be exempt from inheritance tax on day one. So this is a great solution for people who want to save inheritance tax but do not feel ready to give away everything they got. They want to do it in stages so you can change the loan to a gift later on if you don’t think you need that money. So it gives you that flexibility. So these are the three primary types of trusts, the first one being a standalone vanilla gift trust, so you give away everything, that’s it. You have a discounted gift trust that gives you 5% of your initial assets as income for the rest of your life. And you have the gift and loan trust, where you can give a part to the trust and the other can be a loan to the trust, so you can get your hands on that money whenever you want. So these are the three primary trusts for inheritance tax planning. So hopefully that has shed some light on what you wanted to cover today.

Dr James: 18:26

Totally, man, totally. And then, I would imagine, within those three types, it gets even more detailed, and maybe that’s where you want to get an FA involved. I’m guessing.

Rohit: 18:36

Absolutely so. I’ve just given you simple explanations, but how they work and how they fit with your individual planning is the real key here. Right, and that needs someone with in-depth expertise on all of these trusts and other vehicles to design a strategy which uses all of these tools to the effect that you want, your income needs, your capital needs and your desires to pass on wealth. These are the three variables we look at and put together a bespoke strategy for you.

Dr James: 19:06

So who amongst us in the audience should be considered a trust? What is your typical profile of a customer or an individual who is seeking a trust, or you may recommend a trust towards, or is there one?

Rohit: 19:20

Yeah. So, as I say, trusts have different applications. If you talk about the use of trust for life insurance or a pension, literally everybody should be setting it up because you don’t want your life insurance proceeds or your pension money to be taxed at 40% at some later stage. But specifically for gifting assets into the trust people who have estates above the Nildred Bank thresholds. So for a single person, that is 500,000 pounds if you include the resident’s Nildred Bank, or 325,000 pounds otherwise and you times that by two, so say, a million pounds for a married couple, if your assets are over that, then you should really be looking at that earlier, sooner rather than later. There’s also another category of people who this is very relevant for people that are running their own businesses. So we talk about dentists who are running their practices, etc. So the government gives you a very valuable relief called business property relief, or now the name has changed to just business relief. So the concept behind it is let’s say you are running a dental practice change and you passed away and the practice then went to your children. There wouldn’t be any inheritance tax.

Dr James: 20:36

So business assets are exempt from inheritance tax.

Rohit: 20:40

However, I don’t know any dentist or any business owner, for example, who wants to run their business till they drop dead At some stage. They’re looking for an exit plan and the moment they exit the business they get the cash in their account. That money is liable to their personal inheritance tax. So the good news is, if you act timely, you can invest in assets which are exempt from inheritance tax, and those also qualify for business relief. So that strategy is really good for people who are selling businesses. They are a very common category of people we come across and we help with this sort of planning. So anybody that has got assets Already exceeding 1 million for a married couple or 500,000 for a single person, or they’re worried that they might be breaching that threshold that’s for inherited stacks, almost anyone for pensions and life insurance and people who are selling businesses these are the primary applications that we normally come across of trust.

Dr James: 21:43

Got you. What about any specific instances for dentists that you’ve noticed or recurring? Is there any applications to the dental field that you’ve came across or you commonly find?

Rohit: 21:55

Yeah, absolutely so. The most common example I come across is dental practice owners who are looking to sell. Their practice is effectively they’re looking for an exit plan, so they’re going to all of a sudden get perhaps hundreds of thousands or a few millions for their practices. They’ve done very well, hopefully, and they’re really worried about for 40% of that disappearing in tax when they’re gone. So that is the segment where which we see the most often. But there’s also another sort of application on the business side of things, where dentists who are looking to so they’ve set up a set of practices. Let’s say they’ve set up their own business dental surgery business which is doing very well, and they really love it to bits because it’s their baby. Now they’ve come to a point where they can’t keep running it. They would like to slowly take their time away from it and face into their retirement. But they don’t really want to sell it to someone they don’t know who may not treat their patients well. So there’s another type of trust which is relevant for these type of people and that is the employee ownership trust. So with this trust you can actually give the rights to run your practice to a set of your employees or associates and over the next few years you can take money out of your practice in a more tax efficient way. That also gives you control over how the business is run for a few more years and you can see it go through an orderly transition. Also, you can extract your money from the business in a tax efficient way. It’s way more tax efficient than selling it straight away and taking all the proceeds. You get hit with 10% up to 1 million. That’s on business relief, and then the excess gets taxed at 20%. So that trust route could be something that dentists might take advantage of in that situation.

Dr James: 23:55

Yeah, that’s interesting, you know, when I hear you talking about trusts, from the picture that you’re painting and from what I gather, it sounds like virtually everybody should think about stashing their money in some form of trust, but I’m not sure that’s the actual case in reality. For me, it seems like something that is not that common. What is the answer? What is your answer on that one? Is it common in your experience? Is it more common than I think, or do you feel like there should be more of an uptake of these?

Rohit: 24:23

Yeah, so I think the biggest barrier to the use of trust is knowledge, and that’s what we’re hoping, hopefully taking a small step towards changing. But it’s also the actual cash available, the spare cash available that people have. So when you’re typically younger and you’re just sort of building up your investment portfolio, your assets, at that stage maybe the only trust relevant to you is the life insurance-based trust, when you take out life insurance to protect your family and you set up a trust so that the proceeds go into that. But as you build your assets, the second thing to look at is your painting, that is, your pension. So almost everybody has a pension. If not, they should be really thinking why not? And then, if they’re doing reasonably well as a dentist, chances are that they would have a private pension. If that’s something they’re looking into, they would have a private pension with a few hundred thousand pounds in there by the time they’re in their 40s or 50s. That’s typically when trust planning becomes really important. So we see most of our clients over the age of 45 or 50 who really start thinking about using trust because they’re worried about inheritance, tax their what properties which have risen in value. They have grown their dental businesses, they have built up nice pensions and they don’t want to be a victim of their own success. So that’s what we help them do reserve their wealth and grow it. I hear you I hear you.

Dr James: 25:54

You know, I once heard somebody say I can’t remember, maybe it was you or maybe it was someone else and they said you know people who feel the plan for succession love the tax man more than they love their own kids, because that’s how much of their own wealth they give away. Have you heard that one? Yeah, absolutely yeah. Is that one of yours? No, no, no.

Rohit: 26:12

That is one of the ex-chancellors that we’ve had. I can’t remember the name of fan now, but it’s true, it’s true, it’s true. So there are several examples right which tell you why straightforward gifting is not the right thing, because that’s what comes to people’s minds very often. Look, we love our children, we trust our children. Why can’t we just give them money straight away? You can. There are potential downsides. I’ll give you a very interesting statistic first to ponder about, and then I’ll invite you to think why that may be the case. Okay, so, for some strange reason, divorce rates really spike when one of the spouses gets a windfall inheritance. It’s funny, isn’t it? You might wonder why that might be, and that really tells you something. Okay, so the divorce rate in this country is 50%, close to 50%, isn’t it? So if you’re a parent looking at your children and you want to help them, say, step onto the property ladder or get nice education, or whatever it might be, but are you aware, have you thought through that if they were to get into a bad marriage and it resulted in a divorce, that rogue’s pals could walk away with 50% of your hard earned assets which you’ve given away? So real issue that. So that’s another very important reason. It’s not just tax, it’s actually keeping control over the assets. Okay, there’s another very common example which I cite. Let’s say you’re doing inheritance tax planning and you’ve got an 18-year old. You gave them 100,000 pounds. What do you think they’re going to do with it? What would you’ve done with it if you were 18 and you’ve got to give them 100,000 pounds?

Dr James: 28:09

Real quick, guys. I’ve put together a special report for dentists, entitled the seven cost and potentially disastrous mistakes that dentists make whenever it comes to their finances. Most of the time, dentists are going through these issues and they don’t even necessarily realize that they’re happening until they have their eyes opened, and that is the purpose of this report. You can go ahead and receive your free report by heading on over to wwwdentistuneinvestcom forward slash podcast report or, alternatively, you can download it using the link in the description. This report details these seven most common issues. However, most importantly, it also shows you how to fix them. Really, looking forwards to hearing your thoughts. You’re going to have some fun. Come on, come on, aren’t you? Yeah, exactly.

Rohit: 29:00

You would just buy an expensive car, blow it on a holiday. Well, that’s at least what I would have done. They may be more. You know, why is there 18-year-olds these days? We don’t know, but by putting that money in a trust. It’s still there for them. But then you’ve got control as a trustee. You can appoint other trusted people like your brother, sister, friends, as the trustee is there as well, so they can control the assets and give what is required at the right time, the right amount to the children. And the important thing is that the assets of the trust must keep growing. Okay, Because we know the figures for inflation have come out 6.2% and if your assets are not growing at that pace then you’re losing their value. So we make sure that the underlying investments of the trust are growing. So in the next segment, when we go in there, I will talk about that investment strategy and how we ensure trust grow in real terms as well.

Dr James: 29:57

Yeah, awesome. Yeah, we can even do that right now if you want to. I’m totally happy if you’d mentioned briefly how that is.

Rohit: 30:04

I wasn’t sure if you wanted to ask me any other questions.

Dr James: 30:06

Yeah Well, what we could do is I mean, that sounds like a nice thing to go into. Next, because there’s still a lot of mystery out there as to how growing your money works, whether that’s in a trust, whether that’s in an ISO or in a SIP. We’re moving a little bit beyond the trust now and we’re talking about investing, aren’t we? And the mechanisms behind that. But effectively, what you’re doing, the essence of this story? We’ll keep it as focused as possible on trusts, because I think what we’re about to talk about is probably a whole entire other podcast in itself if we want to do it justice. But the principle is you invest in the world economy, which only ever goes up over long enough periods of time, and you diversify throughout the great companies of the world. Maybe, if you want, you chuck some bonds in there as well. If you want to get a little defensive people, there is a philosophy that you go 100% equities where you can. If you’re going to be in the market for over five years. Again, you can already see how we’re going down a whole rabbit hole right here in itself. But the principle is the long story short. I’m guessing what you’re about to say is you diversify throughout the economy of the world and you spread yourself enough so that you’re not exposed, overexposed, to any individual risk from a company going bust.

Rohit: 31:21

Yeah, essentially that, but there are some nuances to it, which?

Dr James: 31:24

I’m all ears then. In that case, yeah or trust.

Rohit: 31:28

So let’s just touch upon one trust which we all have and that is a pension. A pension is set up typically as a master trust arrangement, so every pension scheme has a trustee. Even the NHS pension scheme has a group of trustees and their responsibility is to run the manage the pension assets or invest the pension assets in a way that they can meet future liabilities of the scheme which is paying out pensions to all of the members of that scheme. So that is a type of trust which we all come across. But if we have a private pension then effectively we take a lot more control over how the assets are invested. The same logic applies to a trust created for the purposes of inheritance tax planning. So what we do is we use typically an investment structure called an investment bond, which is held in the trust, and we break that down into segments. So think of it as buckets, and when your beneficiary needs some money you calculate how many buckets need to be taken out of the trust and given to the beneficiary. So if we take the earlier example, where we had 100,000 pounds, we might break that down into 100 buckets of 1000 pounds each, and when any part of that is needed, let’s say Mr McGill has made that gift and the Sun needs 10,000 pounds. So you take 10 buckets out of the 100 that you created and you give those 10 buckets to the beneficiary. The beauty of it is because it gets paid out straight from the trust to the beneficiary. There is no tax applicable on the trust itself. It’s the beneficiary who then gets the money tax free as well. So these are the two main benefits of the trust. Now, there is also another very beautiful application of trust, and that is where the gift that is being made into the trust is over the NIL rate band, because if you’re making the gift into a trust over the amount of 325,000, that is the NIL rate band I mentioned to you then there may be inheritance tax lifetime inheritance tax applicable of 20% on it. To get around that problem, you can invest into business property relief qualifying investments BPR investments. Now, they are a very special category of investments which get special treatment from the government in that they are zero rated for inheritance tax. These are investments typically in lending, so lending for housing developments, commercial property, things like that. They can be investments into renewable energy. So think of the climate crisis, think of what’s going on in Ukraine. The government is really keen for renewable energy to be invested in and, as a result, it makes those investments free of inheritance tax. And thirdly, it can be investments into the AEM market. So not all, but many AEM companies will qualify for BPR or business relief, which means they’re exempt from inheritance. So we source investments like that to invest into as part of a trust environment if the gift in there exceeds the NIL rate band. So I know it’s probably getting into a bit more nitty gritty, a bit more complexity, but it just tells you that there are a lot of decisions to be made about the investments underlying or lying within the trust as well. So those can be invested into large cap companies, as you mentioned. So the likes of Tesco, vodafone, apple all the large companies, great companies of the world. But it can also be invested into smaller companies which are the Apple, simozo and Google’s of tomorrow. So things like companies innovating in climate change, data science, artificial intelligence the kind of companies which you get really excited about, james.

Dr James: 35:31

You know what that’s really. That when you said just a minute ago that there’s some caveats to it, that is a really interesting caveat in itself because you’re hugely incentivized to look at those smaller companies, just as you mentioned a minute ago, and I think that, just as you said, that’s probably when we’re getting into high-level trust strategy, but certainly it’s a little taster of the complexity that they have. Interesting stuff. My friend Rohit, essentially you could talk a lot more on trusts, but you know what this podcast is coming up to about 40 minutes now and we’ve encapsulated trust very nicely, I feel, on how they work, at least on a superficial level, to give everybody a little bit of an understanding. Any more complexity and we might run the risk of well too much information. Let’s say that too much information. But, rohit, we are, as I say, going to draw a line under this very shortly. Is there anything else that you’d like to say in conclusion on trusts?

Rohit: 36:24

Yeah, all I would say is, just like with everything else, educate yourself, read about them, and if you need to help in understanding anything, I’m always there. Seek advice from me or any other trusted professional and take informed decisions. Take it timely, make it wisely, and then you will achieve really good outcomes, whether it comes to trust or investing or anything else in life.

Dr James: 36:49

I love it, my friend. So if anybody is interested by what Rohit said today, feel free to reach out to Rohit. On the group Rohit Rahala. You’ll be able to find him in the members section and you do pop up on the questions that appear there from time to time. So if anybody would like to know more about trust, feel free to reach out to Rohit. Rohit, you’ve been very generous with your time today. Thank you so much for coming on the show. We will catch up super soon. We’ll see you later.

Rohit: 37:13

Thank you, james. It’s been a pleasure, as always, see you soon Cheers.