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Dentists Who Invest

Podcast Episode

Dr James: 

Fans of the Denyshune Invest podcast if you feel like there was one particular episode in the back catalog in the anthology of Denyshune Invest podcast episodes.

Ashley: 

That really, really, really was massively valuable to you. Feel free to share that with a fellow dental colleague who’s in a similar position so their understanding of finance can be elevated and they can hit the next level of financial success in their life. Also, as well as that, if you could take two seconds to rate and review this podcast, it would mean the world. To me, what that would mean is that it drives this podcast further in terms of reach, so that more dentists across the world can be able to benefit from the knowledge contained therein. Welcome.

Speaker 3: 

Welcome to the Denyshune Invest podcast.

Ashley: 

Welcome back everyone to another episode of Denyshune Invest official podcast. We’ve got an absolute blinder here today. We’ve got a man who barely needs an introduction, of course, into us dentists. His reputation precedes him. He’s written three books, would you believe. Three books on marketing, communication and dentistry. A lot of us have been on his courses as well. His name in case you haven’t heard of him, I’m sure you have his name is Ashley Ladder. How are you tonight, ashley?

Speaker 3: 

Great James yourself. Good, Really good. Thank you, Thank you.

Ashley: 

This man. I’m smashing, I’m smashing. I’ve had a day off so I’m recharged my battery’s at peak capacity. I’m happy, I’m ready to go. I’m a lot more alive than what could be expected to be normal on a Friday night, which is brilliant. Ashley has got the most wonderful array of man United shirts in his office that I can see behind him For people who are listening, people who are listening. You won’t be able to quite regard the spectacle that’s there, but there’s at least 20 shirts there and most of them are signed. I’m blown away. That is quite something. Any man in dreamland in that place?

Speaker 3: 

Wow, yeah, yeah. A few of them are, I guess, my 50th birthday party and it’s just going to charity events. I think I’m probably you know, probably have too much to drink and I end up keeping my hand up last to these bits End up coming home for sure.

Ashley: 

Oh, I see. Well, hopefully one day I’ll have as many signed or arsenal shirts as you do man United shirts, because that really is.

Speaker 3: 

Okay.

Ashley: 

I can see a signed gig shirt behind Ashley for anybody who can’t see who’s listening on the podcast and that really wow, I’m blown away. That really is something fair play, fair play, good stuff, cool. So, as we already know, ashley has got quite a how can we say? His reputation procedure in the dental industry is quite well known, but maybe a lot of people don’t really know this story behind how it actually came to be prominent in dentistry, because he is, of course, not a dentist. Ashley, would you like to share with us how you came to be known in the dental industry as this great well person that helps us communicate on the topic of sales so well, despite not coming from a dental background? What was your journey?

Speaker 3: 

Sure, well, I, in February 2021, I’ll be celebrating my 28th year as a business trainer, sales coach.

Ashley: 

I’ve seen a business trainer almost as many years as I’ve been alive, because I’m 20.

Speaker 3: 

Yeah, I feel it Anyway. Today I feel it, but anyway. But the journey started, I think about 22, 23 years ago. I was delivering a two day sales training course in North Manchester. We had about 20 delegates on the course, but people like engineers, recruitment, it, but right at the bottom of the list was two dentists and I was working with Brains why two dentists were taking a sales training course. So I got to meet them the night before and I said you know guys waiting in a sales course and they were NHS dentists. They could place veneers, crowns, implants, they could do all the dentistry, but what they couldn’t do was get the patient over the line. They would talk very technical, they would write large treatment plans and say go home and think about it and then they would often discount in the head. So if the fee was £500, by the time it came out of the mouth it would be £420, £80 would go missing.

Ashley: 

There are so many times and I don’t know what it is.

Speaker 3: 

I thought it was just me, to be honest, no, no, no, it’s about 98% of you do it. Wow. So the top part on the sales training course. And as he left on the second day I said to them how was it? And they put the thumbs up, but I didn’t think they really enjoyed it. So I said to them I’ll give you a call in about six to eight weeks. And six, eight weeks later I’m lying on my couch at home and I was thinking I wonder how those two dentists got on. Should I give them a call? Should I not? Should I give them a ring? And anyway, I decided to ring them and I must admit I was a bit nervous making the phone calls because I didn’t think they enjoyed it. But nothing really could be further from the truth. They both told me that their treatment plan acceptance had increased. More patients were saying yes, they weren’t discounting anymore. The books were full. But the main thing they told me was for the first time ever they were delivering the dentistry they loved to do and their patients wanted, and that was the key thing. So I kept in touch with them. One guy in particular, a guy there called Neil Samson, who I’m still friends with today, and you know they told their mates and about six to eight months later I delivered my first ever. We called it the Ethical Sales and Communication course. We had 26, 27 dentists. It was a brilliant two days. I rang all those dentists up over a series of weeks and they all said the same. You know, the books were full more patients saying yes, you know, they did live in the dentistry they loved to do, and they told their mates. So really, from just from two dentists, the first two or three years it was a slow burner. I wasn’t really. I was doing it part time, if you might say. But then after, about probably about 18, 19 years ago, I thought you know what I’m going to do this full time. So I went full time into dentistry, solely working with dentistry, and the rest is history. So if you fast forward today, I’ve now delivered close on 33,000 hours of business training to the dental world all over the world USA, sydney, india, singapore, different countries. I’m speaking today from a 3000 square foot training centre and we have about 10 different courses, from the Ethical Sales course to a speaking course, to an entrepreneur group practice managers club. We train young dentists as well who have just graduated. We’ve got special courses for those guys, as you say, written three books and yeah, so I’m pretty pleased I made two phone calls, 20, 22 years ago, because if I hadn’t, it might have been a completely different story. So, yeah, yeah, that’s, that’s my, that’s my story, basically.

Ashley: 

Tell you what the doors that open. You don’t know what’s behind them until you open now, and it can even be as simple as a phone call. It kind of reminds me not to go off too much in a tangent. But have you heard about how Ray Croc started McDonald’s? Yeah, the story. Yeah, he was a milkshake salesman. He sold one to two milkshake machines to various different fast food restaurants. One day got an order for six and he thought to himself that’s a bit strange and out of the blue. What are these guys doing differently? He went out of his way to contact these people you know who had, you know, ordered six milkshakes from him, six milks, milkshakes machines. He wanted to know what their secret was. He went down to you’ll have to remind me was it Kentucky? Something I don’t even know where McDonald’s originally is from just to check out what was going on. He saw a restaurant that was taken off and it was booming. He thought to himself I’ll have a slice of that. The restaurant was called the McDonald’s Brothers and the rest is history. So yeah, yeah, yeah. I have to say again yeah. So just in case anybody hasn’t heard that story before myself and actually have, obviously but that’s an interesting one, and it kind of just reminded me of that. The other thing I was going to say just as a personal anecdote regarding your books, ashley, it’s the stuff that’s in them. It’s I always used because I made the transition from NHS to private and I used to notice that, for whatever reason, my patient return rate after I had the initial consultation was terrible and I used to turn the charm on. You know, I felt like I was being, you know, nice to these people, hopefully not rubbing them up the wrong way. It began to make me think to myself that perhaps I was. But I read your book and I realized there was a lot of the red flags that you talk about in there. I was committing I wasn’t locking them in for their second appointments. I was saying go off, mrs Jones, go and think about it. That is this honestly the silliest thing, because the number of people that won’t come to the dentist unless you somehow enforce them to, or at least you’ve got it locked in a little bit, is quite out of the ordinary. And I suppose you understand it in the way because it is, most people will avoid it where possible. So you almost have to kind of ensure that they do, and it’s not just because you’re thinking about your own pocket, it’s because you’re thinking about how can we help these people as well and ensure that they come back. So that was one that really resonated with me. I can’t remember which one of your two books it was your three books it was from. I’ve only read too often, but anyway, it really really helped me.

Speaker 3: 

I sent you’re reaching a, it must be in this one. Don’t wait for the two Ferry.

Ashley: 

Ah, yes, I think it was?

Speaker 3: 

I believe it was.

Ashley: 

Yes, and your little system about the different characters that you encounter, the passive, active, how to sell to different individuals. That was something that I just had no clue about until I read those books, so they helped me tremendously. Ashley has been paying me to say these things, by the way. Hand on point, they really really helped me. Anyway, ashley, thank you so much for the introduction that you’ve given us. That’s wonderful. I wanted to know as well we touched a little bit on this just a second ago why are we so bad at selling as dentists? What do you think that you could describe succinctly, nail on the head, why we’re so bad at doing it?

Speaker 3: 

Well, I wouldn’t say you’re all bad at it. I wouldn’t say you’re great at either, but there is some people that do it really well. Well, you’ve got to remember. First of all, you are technicians by nature and you’ve gone into the healthcare business to help people. So you probably went to university not thinking about communication. Obviously, you weren’t taught these skills at university either Nobody, I think somebody once said to me they’ve had one hour’s education on communication. So you are engineers and you’ve spent all your life learning how to do the technical side of dentistry, but I haven’t spent any time learning the communication side. And if you think about me, you’re a private dentist, so you should know this. But when you’re in a consultation with a patient whether the patient’s coming to speak to you about certain treatment or you’re just having a normal consultation with an existing patient About 85 to 90% of your financial success whether a patient will go ahead or not will all come down to skills and attitude, and skills such as communication skills, good listening skills, great asking questions you mentioned it before saying to the patient you know how does that sound. Is that the sort of thing you’re looking for, rather than saying go home and think about it An attitude or things like positive flexibility, enthusiasm, confidence. You know, 85% is a lit is down to those two areas and only 15% is applicable to the product knowledge. Well, the problem is that most dentists spend all their time learning the product knowledge but spend very little time developing the skills and attitude. So you learn all the technical stuff but you don’t spend any time learning what really is the most important areas, or the equal is most important areas, which is the skills and attitude. So that’s probably the reasons why, but probably, going back to what I’ve already said before, the main reason is that you probably went into university in health care not thinking about, you know, having to sell it.

Ashley: 

Real quick guys. I put together a special report for dentists entitled the seven costly and potentially disastrous mistakes that dentists make whenever it comes to their finances. Most of the time, dentists are going through these issues and they don’t even necessarily realize that they’re happening until they have their eyes opened, and that is the purpose of this report. You can go ahead and receive your free report by heading on over to wwwdentistuneinvestcom forward slash podcast report or, alternatively, you can download it using the link in the description. This report details these seven most common issues. However, most importantly, it also shows you how to fix them Really. Looking forwards to hearing your thoughts Totally. How long did it take you personally to get round all the technical terms and jargon that we use, or are you still getting there? Tell you what. Five years of university, and I still hear terms from time to time that I’ve never lost before. So hats off to you, ashley, for it.

Speaker 3: 

It’s obviously changing all the time now, you know, with ITO scanners and different scanner machines and dental monitoring, so I mean it’s all changing all the time. So you just I just need to keep a little bit abreast of it and make sure that I have an understanding of it all. But obviously I although I often say nowadays that I can probably place a crown and do fillings I’ve spent that much time with dentists, but I mean, I’m sure you could talk the patient into it. I can talk to them, but I can’t do the dentists. I’ll sell it for you and you can do it.

Ashley: 

I actually read something in your book that I’d never come across before, which was a technical term in dentistry. It was the proportion of copper that’s in an orthodontic wire Six percent. Maybe you don’t even, maybe you don’t remember this in your book. I learned that from your book, but I hold my hands up and I say I’m not an orthodontist. So, yeah, this is just another microcosm of how much jargon there is out there and yeah, like I say, hats off to Ashley for persevering. Ashley, we talked about selling NHS versus private. What are the specific challenges to each? How do they compare and how do you teach them on your course? Can you just elaborate a little bit?

Speaker 3: 

Yeah, sure, I mean I would say that I would say that the vast majority of the dentists who are coming out of courses are NHS but wanting to do more private. If I look up, you know I’ve delivered four courses this week and you know I would say that the vast majority of them. So ensure how do I do with it? Okay, so ensure what patients are interested in is what’s the difference and what are the benefits. What’s in it for me? Now, what a lot of dentists do is they focus on what they call the features of the product or service, but actually the product, the features, is fine, but you have to link it to the benefit and what difference is going to make to the patient. So if you are in, let’s say you’re a hairdresser and we’re talking about, you know, nhs crowns or private crowns. So you know what’s the difference between the two and what’s the advantage of the patient having a private crown and what does it mean to them. So you’ve got to explain to them what the difference is, what the advantages are, and then tailor it to the patient and that’s what you’ve got to do if you really want to increase your uptake of private against NHS, because patients aren’t interested in the features. They want to know what’s in it for me. So if I’m going to pay 225 for an NHS crown or 500 for private, what’s the difference, what’s the benefits and what it’s going to? What’s it going to mean to me? Now the other thing you’ve got to do is not make assumptions about who’s going to buy and who’s not going to buy. I had a dentist on a course this week great dentist, lovely guy and he makes assumptions about his patients. So sometimes he offers it some and doesn’t offer it others. Well, when you do that, you are you’re missing out on lots of opportunities. So the major advantage I would say the major advice I would get to people, is not only talk about the benefits and what it means to the patient, but also make sure you offer it everybody and don’t make assumptions about who will and who won’t, because a lot of dentists do that. And and if you do that, you know, offer it to everybody and talk about the benefits, then you will see. And you’ve got some good models you’ve got. You’ve got maybe got some before and after pictures and models to show the patients. Then you should see an increase in your uptake of private treatment.

Ashley: 

One thing as well as that, when I made the transition into private, it’s very on NHS. You have more of a carte blanche, I think, to offer the well a different treatment based on its features. So let’s say you’re on the NHS. You can say to someone well, the NHS pays for what’s functional, but they don’t necessarily pay for anything over and above that. So the where I used to come from on the whole private whether or not I was prepared to undertake some work privately or on NHS would be. I could come from that angle and I could say well, if you want this MCC crown, it’s very practical, it lasts for very long. That will be available on the NHS, whereas if you want this lovely porcelain crown, it’ll have lovely primary and secondary anatomy, then I’m afraid, because of the lab bill is so much higher, then that would be a private treatment. The thing that made it difficult for me was when I came into private in the first place. I find it difficult to justify the price to people, particularly if there was how can I say if something was very time consuming and would take me a while. I found that a really nice thing to say to someone was that if you could talk about the labs and big them up and big the job that they were going to do up and how difficult and time-consuming it is for them. It helped me sell a lot more treatment and also just what you were saying there. It’s always great. We should never make assumptions as professionals and that carries through to our selling as well. Ashley, on your course, you’ve been doing this for however long now on your course. If you had a top 10 hit list or a top 10 things of gripes, things that bother you when dentists come to say you it doesn’t come to see you, it doesn’t have to be 10, but most common things that dentists, crimes that dentists commit, that kind of talk themselves out of selling things, what would you say might be on that top 10?

Speaker 3: 

Okay, so the biggest mistakes they make yeah or is it going to be?

Ashley: 

difficult to narrow down.

Speaker 3: 

No, no, no, I can do this for you. I’ve delivered 32,000 hours, so I should know them by now. I think some of the biggest mistakes they make is they don’t spend enough time building rapport. We have dentists who take my course and they come back and again and again, and again. Once they come on, that’s it. They’ll hope to become on every year, virtually. Well, often when I speak to dentists, they say I’m spending more time with my patient, I’m getting to know them better and I’ve learned more about the patient in one meeting than I have in the last 20 years. So that’s one thing. The other thing, the biggest mistake dentists make is they don’t ask enough questions. So they tend to sell the treatment without really truly fully finding out what the patients wants and needs are. So they don’t ask enough questions. If a patient comes in and they’re interested in something, they may ask one question and then they start jumping into here’s how we can help you. This is what it is and this is what it does. And you start talking about the process. Also, because of that, you make assumptions about patients. So, because you make assumptions about patients, you’re not asking enough questions and you’re missing out on opportunities. So that’s another big mistake that dentists tend to make. I’ll give you a great example. If a patient comes in and they say I’m interested in teeth whitening, well, the dentists will launch into a presentation of well, there’s two ways of doing it, and what we do is we take an impression, we send it to a lab and then what we do is make these trays, molds. I mean, you can relate to this. You’re laughing as we’re speaking about it.

Ashley: 

I just, I do, I just see myself in it. I really do yeah. I just I just I assume they’ve maybe got this sciencey technical minded brain yeah, that’s what us dentists? We we just enjoy. We almost get a weird thrill out of it.

Speaker 3: 

But really most of society doesn’t think in that way yeah, we see that and that that’s the other big issue. You see, you tend because your researchers, you research a lot of dentists research a lot. They’re like engineers. So when they’re buying something themselves, they tend to be slow decision makers and spend hours and hours and hours researching. So when they go actually buy the thing themselves in the shop, they actually know more than the salesperson sending to them. So so they think that it must be the same for the patients. They want to know absolutely everything. So if you visit dentists websites, for example, and they go let’s say you go to the implant section, it talks all about the journey, the process, the titanium screws, the, the jaw bone anaesthetic, osso integration, the suture. You know it is very technical, so they tend to talk too technical. That’s another big mistake dentists tend to make. And the other big mistake they make is is that they discount their fees a lot. You know they’re not particularly great at discussing fees, so they will tend to discount, make assumptions that the patient wouldn’t pay that. So if they reduce the fee they think that more patients might say yes, but you know, every 10% reduction in their fees you’re losing 25 30% of your net profit. So those are the big mistakes I find that dentists make. There’s a lot more, but those are sort of five or six there that I find that a lot of dentists tend to make when they come on the courses.

Ashley: 

I think a lot of listeners will recognize themselves in that and that’s not, that’s not any critique on your character. These are just common things that make us all human and these were 100% things that I did, that almost talked myself out of a sale even before I made it, because they’re almost psychological barriers that we create ourselves. So, yeah, definitely, as I say good, it’s interesting to hear that. I suppose when you began learning about selling I know this is your background, us dentists don’t have that background necessarily. Now I know that they can come on your course and that will assist them in that journey was there some really great resources that you find helped you to become moral fey with communication and selling? So let’s say books. So let’s say websites and say people you met. I don’t know.

Speaker 3: 

I well, I need to. First of all, I need to work for the Dale Carnegie training organization, which is the world’s leading global training organization in the world. So I need to sell that courses, I need to teach the courses and then eventually I became an international master trainer. So I went around the world training to become trainers, to become trainers. So when I joined Carnegie I literally became a lifelong learner of sales and communication and marketing. So I was always I was a five course instructor. So I was always learning to deliver the courses, deliver the training. But the I would say the big moment in my life was after year one of working with Dale Carnegie selling their training courses in Salford and Trafford Park. I mean, I had, by the way, I was, I was, I was dreadful at it. I think my first year I earned about 8,000 pounds. So but what I did was I I went to the States and I went to learn from the number one Dale Carnegie salesman in the world. So he was delivering a course, a weekend course, for a Friday, saturday and Sunday, and I paid to go over. It was in New York or just outside New York and I paid to go on this course myself and took a whole weekend away and I went and I actually did the course. When I actually didn’t have any money in the bank to pay for it, I put it on a credit card. But what I learned over those three days basically changed my life and I learned the principles of of ethical selling, that it’s not about hard selling, it’s not about pushing or controlling, it really is about rapport building and asking questions. So when it came back from that course, I instantly got great results. My sales figures went up and I instantly did better. So once that happened, I just became a lifelong learner about sales and marketing and I still spend, I would say, about an hour every single day, and I mean that six days a week. I may have a day off on a Sunday or something, but I’m always learning about sales and marketing. So I sign up to four or five different gurus. I get their webinars each week. I enroll in a business TV program. I’m reading books all the time and one book leads you to the next book. That makes sense. You read a book and then it leads you on to another book, leads on to another book.

Ashley: 

I’m like with finance books. Sorry to just interject yeah, I always think to myself the next book is going to be the final one, then I’m going to be the guru. No, then you read that one and there’s like five more whole tangents.

Speaker 3: 

You can go on books it recommends you never quite get there, do you? you never do and and I absolutely love it. So for me it’s a hobby, it’s not work. You know, I often have my dinner at home and I’ll take the dogs for walk, friend, now, and I’ll listen to something if I come back with one idea or sometimes it might be the whole, it might be the whole week when I come back with one good idea, but then if I implement any works, then then it. You know, I’m delighted. So I’m always learning, I’m always picking up new, what the latest is and what’s going on, and rehashing and I learn a lot from my clients. So every week we have zoom calls from my clients who’ve taken courses. They tell me what they’ve done differently using my material and then I can change my material. I can. I can start implementing, change the manuals, do things differently, use their success stories on the courses, so so. So for me it’s just, it’s a listen. I’m 56 and I’ve I’ve probably got. You know I’ve earned the right to say this. But you know this this is going out to people who are investing in the stuff. You know you cannot invest money and time better than personal development on yourself, on sales marketing and your own personal development. You just cannot invest your money better. You can invest money in the stock exchange, you can invest money in gold and again all that in houses, but the greatest return back you can get on your investment is going to be always sales, going to be always marketing skills, and it’s always going to be on your own personal development. And if you can invest in yourself there, there’s no other better investment. You will not get a better return back than investing on yourself in terms of sales, marketing and personal development, particularly at the start of your career as a dentist. And if you can, you know I’ve got a dentist on my course this week. I’ve been working with him now for a few months. His court I’m here is 26, 27. He’s done I don’t know 50, 60 in visa line cases in his first year or second year, I mean, and he’s invested what? Maybe a couple of grand, three thousand pound with me and yeah, what’s he had back in return? You know something like 150, 200 000 pound. Well, where can you get a better return back on your investment? On that? You just can’t. So if I was, because obviously this is about investing you can’t invest better in personal development, sales and marketing, and you know I’m learning now how to write in sales. I’m learning how to craft letters and write brochures and you know, only a few weeks ago we sent an advert out and in this space of a weekend we took 20 000 pound in sales for a course, and that was an advert that probably took me three hours to write. So, um, yeah, if you, if you ask him my advice and pinpointing that you cannot invest your money better in yourself and that’s what I do all the time- on that note a lot of investors.

Ashley: 

They’ll have their total investment capital, so the money that they set aside from investing, after they put some money in the bank and they will ring the fence, some of that, a proportion, say five, ten percent every so often. Well, just out of the total every month, whatever that is, they start to wait after their salary and they will say this is not for traditional investing, this is for investing in me. So, therefore, growth and education. So that’s an interesting one. It’s a common technique, is that? And that just adds on to what Ashley is saying really nicely. Second thing I’ll say, when you were talking about your books earlier, I saw something that you posted on Facebook I think it was a while ago and the caption was second bookshelf of self-help books that I’ve read, and this was not a small bookshelf by any stretch of the imagination. So that’s what being a lifelong reader looks like. And, yeah, I can only imagine the amount of information you’ve managed to squeeze into your head there from those books that you’ve read. And being a lifelong reader is something that I’ve become committed to over the last few years and it really it almost gave me a new lease lease of life. You’ll always realize there’s more to learn. Reading books is the greatest life hack there is, I swear. The different, the, the way you can differentiate yourself from other people and learn about things in depth it’s mind-blowing. It’s just seemed something so obvious, yet so few people do it. You know what I mean. So I’m completely on board with that. You’ve listed your no-nose, but that’s a bit of a negative, that’s a bit of a downer. What about your top tips?

Speaker 3: 

the other top tips and top tips. And just just when your patients come in and just build amazing rapport with people you know just become. Del Carnegie said it the best way in his famous book how to Win Friends and Infants People but if you are genuinely interested in people, they become genuinely interested in you and that’s just the key skill. And if you can be really good at making friends, connecting with people, really good at asking questions, and if you can do that really really well, you will create so many opportunities. And on my courses we spend 16 hours learning how to ethical sell people, yet we only spend about 45 minutes learning how to close and gain commitment. The rest of it is just all about how to connect with people and build the poor. So and asking the right questions. So stop selling and ask questions. And the more asked questions you ask, the more opportunities you will create and the more you learn, the more you earn. And that’s the big tip. And I think the second big thing that you ought to do is not to discount your fees. Get into the habit, especially if you are young dentists get into the habit of charging the correct fee and don’t discount, because when you discount your fees. It becomes habit and you start doing it two, three times a day and, before you know it, discounted 15 fees over a year, over a week. Times it by 40, you know, six, 700 times a year. Well, that’s big money it adds up, because this podcast is all about investing and generating wealth, you know. So charge the correct fees right from the word go in your career and if a patient says no, that’s fine, move on. Don’t get discouraged because the next patient might just say yes. So that would be the big three things that I would say is really getting to know your patients, connecting, building rapport, following up with them at home. Make the odd phone call here and there, asking really good questions. Create opportunities and not to discount. You know, charge the correct fees. You know you’ve spent years developing the craft. You’re, in seven, eight years, become a really good dentist and you keep. You know the thing about dentists is that they, on the whole, they keep learning. You know they keep developing themselves. So make sure you charge the correct fee.

Ashley: 

We do put a lot of work in in dental school and maybe the patients don’t necessarily understand that when they are looking for discount or whenever we offer to them discount, it’s almost a disservice to ourselves. Yeah, when you were talking earlier about the, when we shave, let’s say we’ve got a thousand pounds. Let’s say a crown’s a thousand pounds expensive crown but we’ll use it because it’s a round number. If your costs are 500, you deduct. You said to the patient you’ve already taken some money off in your head before you’ve even told them the price and you said it’s 800. That’s 20% off the cost of the crown to the patient, but that’s actually 40% of your profit. So it’s magnified. I believe you said this earlier, but I was just putting it in some nice wrong terms. This was a really nice way that someone explained it to me once, or perhaps I read it in your book, ashley.

Speaker 3: 

Yeah, so let me explain. So let’s, let’s, for simple sake and by the way I got, I didn’t get an O level in mass, or I think you call them GCSEs, so I’m not a great mathematician, so bear with me let’s say you sell something for 100. And let’s say, for example, the cost is 65, and you make 35 net profit. Let’s just use those figures as a round just for the example of this. Well, let’s say, instead of selling it for 100, you’re not 10% off, and that’s so, you’re not gonna you’re selling it for 90. Okay, so you’re selling something for 90,. You should be selling for 100. Now, the cost is still the same. So the cost is 65, but instead of you making 35, you’re now only making 25. Okay, now the difference between 35 and 25 is actually 28%. So by just reducing something by 10%, you can actually knock 28% of your net profit.

Ashley: 

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3: 

And that’s the impact. So people think, oh, it’s only 10%, but actually it’s not, it’s 28%, that’s magnificent. Now, actually, it works the other way. So if you sell something for 110, your cost is still 65. When it’s at a 35, you’re making 45 profit. So your profit goes up by 28%. So that’s the good news, and that’s really why you want to be focusing on trying to increase your fees rather than deducting them.

Ashley: 

Absolutely. And then the other thing I was just going to say, just to add on what you were talking about prior to that, was that when we have a patient I read something a while ago that when we have a patient, it’s always a good idea to try to memorize five things about them before they come into the room, just as conversation starters and little tangents, and it just sets you apart from the rest of the dentist that they’ve seen. So for me personally, I genuinely found the person’s history and their story interest, and so I would almost always learn their profession and maybe where they came from, where they’re addressed, if I knew the area or not, things of that nature, because everybody’s favorite subject is themselves. Everybody’s favorite subject is themselves, and even if nothing else, it’ll get them to open up. It really can’t not do you any favors. The only thing I’ll say is there is the am I right in saying it’s the business type person that that does slightly backfire on sometimes and they prefer a more called professional approach?

Speaker 3: 

Yeah, I mean I am generalizing, not everybody’s like this, but there is sometimes it’s. Entrepreneurs can often be, you know, make people like themselves. Sometimes we might not be the most talkative building with all people and, yeah, only because we’re time conscious people so often we are everything we do is running against the clock. So if we’re going out to do business, typically that’s what we want to do because we’ve got something else lined up straight after. So I’m not saying it, but in typically, entrepreneurs are not great rapport builders only because they’re very, very, very time conscious people.

Ashley: 

Should be mentioned that those people are generally few and far between, but it’s just something to be conscious of. Yes, something that I learned a while ago and, looking back on it, there were times where I was, you know, really bubbly and maybe friendly to someone, and maybe in hindsight I could see they were a bit reticent to that. But I didn’t recognize at the time, and now I’ve definitely become a little bit savvier as time went on. That was a helpful one for me when I I can’t remember where I read that, but anyway, just a helpful one. Ashley, we’ve done a wonderful run down today off some tips, top tips on selling top no-nos and things like that. How do you help on your courses and can you just tell us a little bit more about the various different types of courses you offer? I have to admit as well, ashley and I were talking off camera before this and I honestly thought that maybe Ashley’s courses wouldn’t necessarily be running at the minute because of the COVID pandemic, but Ashley has said that that’s not the case, so perhaps you could go in a little bit more detail on that for anybody else. I hope you may be thinking that too.

Speaker 3: 

Yeah, so, so obviously we’ve got I could talk about my courses all day, but we’ve got a couple of programs that for dentists. So the main core course we have is obviously the two day ethical sales and communication course. So that’s the core program. So that teaches the dentists and their teams and treatment coordinators the perfect consultation. I cover eight steps, from building a board, how to ask the right questions, how to sell, how to discuss fees, overcome objections, how to close and follow up. So that’s the core program. So dentists tend to take that course first. Then they take the advanced masterclass program. So that’s like a refresher of the first two days. But then we cover the things like the four different personality styles. We go into very much detail of the characteristics of each one and how they buy and how we need to sell to them and how communicate with them. We go into a lot more detail about how to get referrals and Google reviews and that type of thing. So people tend to take the two day course. Then they come back and take the advanced course and then we have what we call a speaking and self confidence course and that’s a program where we teach dentists and elegant team members how to be more and much better communicator one to one in groups of people. So we have like a package there. So you know, we start starting from 97 pound a month, you can work with us over 18 months and take all three courses. So, which is great. You have about 300 dentists who are on that package with us and that’s brilliant because we can work with them over an 18 month period, we can see them grow and we can really make an impact on their career. And then we have like a practice success club where you know, where dentists and sort of practices can put all their people on all our courses, again for a nominal monthly fee. And on top of those three courses then we have a practice managers club and we have a reception course where we teach reception is how to take inquiries and turn them into appointments. So those are the sort of five core open courses that we run and people can come in and take those. Or, like I said, we have packages starting from 97 pound a month where dentists can take all three courses and work with us over a period and we can really make an impact and a difference to their lives there you go guys.

Ashley: 

Plenty of options to suit your budget If you are such ways inclined. Plenty of value given out on this podcast, and I’m sure that Ashley can go into way more detail on that. If you were, of course, interested, feel free to get in touch with them. Finally, ashley, finally, this is the bit at the end of the podcast that I love most. We want to freestyle a little bit. We’ve always got some questions on the group Dentist who Invest, community Group for Dentist who Enjoy Trading, which you can find on Facebook, if anybody who is listening to this is not already in it. We promote these podcasts beforehand in the group. We allow people, we permit people a few days beforehand to ask some questions. So finally, ashley, if it’s okay with you, we’ve just got some of those questions, so I might just run them by you. So let’s see, I haven’t read these before, by the way, so I might. Well, I’m sure they’ll be fine, but I might have to edit them and make sense of them a little bit. Here’s one We’ve got a question from Suleiman Saka. Shout out to Suleiman. Suleiman would like to know. He works in a mixed NHS rural practice and he reckons that some dentists feel uneasy discussing private fees and undervalid their professional services. He is looking for ways to overcome that. I think we kind of Covered that already, didn’t we really? Anything else you could maybe add, just for Suleiman’s benefit.

Speaker 3: 

I think really I think we probably covered that quite a lot today and a lot of dentists they really do undervalue themselves. I’ll be biased. I would say well, come and take a course with me, suleiman, and you’ll get over that. But if you’re not ready to take a course with me, but read my books but I’ve gone by the two books that I’ve written Don’t Wait for the Two Fairy and the other book, which is a great book, which is you Are Worth it how to Discuss Fees with Self-Confidence and Achieve the Income that your Services Deserve. Those two books will help you in a really, really big way. But it’s the game that goes on in your head and you need to change the message that’s going on in your head, otherwise you’ll shuggle with this fees for the rest of your life, really. So I think the other thing is that you need to overcome it. It’s just accept that in, particularly in mixed practice, when you’re offering both types of treatment, not everyone’s going to say yes to private treatment. You just need to accept is that you know you have a passion for it, but some patients haven’t, and not everyone’s going to say yes. And if they don’t say yes, it’s not. Don’t take it personal, it’s never you. It’s just that sometimes what you’re offering is just not right for them. So you just need to counter-five and get over it and move on.

Ashley: 

Awesome. Next question from Suleiman. He just wants to know if you’ve got any top tips from marketing specifically implants. Anything you can say on that, oh God.

Speaker 3: 

Do you know, I work a lot with a few corporates and I go into their practices some of these practices and I spend three days there and I do marketing, I do sales and I do world-class customer care. Yeah, and what I’ve learned is this is that the most opportunities you’ve got with your existing clients, you know, if they’ve got loose dentures, have you rassed them? You know, does the denture bother you? Does it impact your eating? Is there any good tool that you’d like to change about that, if you could? If they’ve got spaces, if they’ve got extractions? You know I’m going to some dental practices. You know, if they’ve got seven or eight dentists, they’re doing like 1,200 extractions a year and they’re placing 50, 60 implants. Well, there’s a massive mismatch there. You know, do you offer implants to all those extractions? And in every single one I go down there, it’s less than a five-minute conversation. So I don’t think patients even know that that’s an option half the time. So I would say, if you’re looking to, if you’re looking to place implants, do more of them, then your opportunities are definitely with your existing patients. So, solomon, I’m biased, but I deliver a ethical sales course For dentists. I want to place more implants with Bill Schaefer and Stephen Jacobs. Now Bill and Stephen are dentists who have taken courses from me in half, about 12, 13 years. They place five to 600 implants each, plus a year, and they are the most too kindest human beings you’ll ever meet. You must come and take the course with me, bill and Stephen. We’re doing that in March 2021. I think we’ve probably got about 10 spaces left on that with social distancing, but you will get everything you need to know on how to sell and market implants on that course. So I think it’s March the 19th and 20th. If it’s in my centre here in Manchester, please look at it on the website and give me a shout, because you’ll learn everything from that course that will help you sell market implants for life. We’ve had dentists travel from Sydney to take this course in the past, so it’s on your doorstep.

Ashley: 

Great stuff. Just final two questions. The first of those is we have a question on marketing yourself ethically as someone who is able to undertake ABB treatment. How to set yourself apart from the rising stars, as they’ve been tactfully called in this post, which I suppose can also mean beginners or people who are quite new to dentistry the rookies how to tactfully market yourself as someone who is able to do that whilst also maintaining how can we say, whilst also maintaining realistic expectations from the patients. I know that that’s quite an ethereal thing to talk about, ashley, so we’ll just have some marketing tips that are ethical for ABB treatment. Hard for you to answer, possibly.

Speaker 3: 

The biggest mistake. The biggest well, one of the biggest business mistakes let’s talk about business now for a minute is just relying on one, and that’s one of anything. So if you’re asking me what marketing tips you’ve got to do, you’ve got to have lots of different ways. So you’ve got to be where your patients are. So if your patients are looking at Instagram, you need to be posting on Instagram. If you’re patient, you know you’ve got to be posting on all the different social medias. You’ve got to be doing an absolutely amazing job for your patients, exceeding their expectations, getting video testimonials from them, getting referrals from them. I mean, the best way of getting more new clients is definitely going to be handing out referral cards. So hand out referral cards to existing patients, do an amazing job for them. Follow them up at home. You know, ring them up at home saying how was the treatment, how is everything going. So you’ve got to be doing lots of different activities. I would say Don’t just rely on one, just use seven or eight, nine, 10 different ways, but definitely post or be where your patients are. And I think the second thing is is make sure you’re handing out referral cards and maintaining those relationships. And I think, if you do all those things, then you will. But you’ve got to do it consistently. Do it every day, do something every day. That will help grow your business and if you do that, then you will see more opportunities being created.

Ashley: 

Effectively. I believe what Suleiman is getting at there is how to distinguish them himself from newer dentists who are maybe a little more savvy with social media. How can that be in a more level play and field, which you’ve answered wonderfully. So that was great. And the very final question is what 0% finance deals are the best value for the practice and the dentist. Can you give us any insight on that, ashley?

Speaker 3: 

I don’t know. I mean the company that I recommend people to speak to is Medenta. I think they’re owned by a practice plan now, but I don’t know all the packages. You really need to look in that. What I would say is you need to offer finance. You’ve got to make it easy for clients to do business with you, so I think that’s really important. My understanding is and you have to check up on this, but I think it might be Medenta I’ve just launched an 18 month. It was a two year inches free, but again, check up on that. I’m not 100% certain Now, something I only heard a few weeks, a couple of weeks ago, but I don’t know the answer to that question, unfortunately. But the company I recommend on Medenta, I think they overall seem to have a really good package and you can get an answer quite quickly of them, which is another good thing.

Ashley: 

Wonderful. Hopefully Ashley has given you a good place to start looking there, suleiman, so hopefully that helps in some way. Ashley, we’re going to wrap up.

Speaker 3: 

I think this is a private course for Suleiman now, wasn’t it? I think this is a private course for Suleiman, yeah.

Ashley: 

I tell you what.

Speaker 3: 

Get Suleiman to give me a call.

Ashley: 

Yeah, I tell you what Suleiman got a lot of airtime tonight, but you know what? There were good questions, so I’m pretty happy with those. So thanks very much for those. Suleiman, you’re welcome. We’re going to wrap up here tonight. Thank you so much for coming to the show. Thank you for giving us so much value as well, because there was a lot of stuff in there that I learned for the first time and a lot of stuff that I read on your books. It really, really really helped me, even though you are a man United fan. I think I’m going to let that slide. Thanks for a very good podcast, ashley. Thanks a lot. It’s a pleasure to meet you and hopefully speak to you again soon. I’ll let you get off, yeah, in a bit.

Speaker 3: 

Cheers, james. Bye, take care.

Dr James: 

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