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Dentists Who Invest

Podcast Episode

Full Transcript

Dr James: 

Welcome back everybody to another episode of the Dentists who Invest podcast. We have been a little light on the actual investing content these days, so we are going to pivot and I have reached out to my good friend, adam Hughes, from the dental business DBA dental business Alliance Alliance. There we go I knew it was the dental business alliance and Adam is here today to talk to us about investing in stocks, the theories, philosophies, things that we can do in order to undertake that. Adam, how are you today? I’m very good. Thanks yourself. Really good mate, I’m always good. So, adam, a few things we want to cover today. We’re going to talk about investing in stocks. Obviously, that is the wider perspective that we are coming at this podcast from, but it’s not just as simple as that. Everybody just thinks, oh, I’m going to buy stocks, I’m going to be rich, but we’re here to talk about how. That is not always the case and you have to educate yourself in order to do it properly. And I think a lot of people think that as long as you have the stocks and shares ISA, you’re good and you’re investing. Actually, it’s what you do within that ISA that determines your success. So we wish to talk about one of the main things that I’m interested in, and one of the philosophies that is propagated these days, is what does it mean for our portfolios if we have 100 stocks in terms of funds, in terms of indexes? That is conventionally the wisdom which will say that if we orientate our portfolio correctly towards that, that we will have the most gains, the biggest capital appreciation, but that’s not always a good idea. So my question to you, adam, is, first of all, can you tell us a little bit more about that philosophy, what it means, how it can be used by dentists, and then what we’ll get on to a little bit later is when and when and when not. That philosophy does apply 100% stocks.

Adam: 

Whenever I hear that, that screams to me huge amount of volatility. Naturally, with the stock market, it’s going to go up and down. With 100% of your money in stocks, it’s going to 100% go up and down and that screams to me somebody that needs to be ready and suitable for that as well. Because we talked about balanced funds. You know, is there still a place for balanced funds and balanced funds? What that means is you’re not 100% stopped. You may be sort of 60 70% stock market and then you have an element of, say, bonds and property and cash within that. So whatever the stock market does, how that goes up and down, it’s not going to affect the entire amount of your portfolio. The 100% stocks theory. So that’s all about long, long-term growth, you know. So if you’ve got money which you’re willing to put away and we’re talking eight to ten plus years now that’s when you know having the large amount of your money in stocks will come to fruition in the long term if you’re somebody who thinks you can access that money in the next year or two, 100% stocks is probably not far off a gamble. But let’s be honest about it, you know, unless you’re keeping on it and you live in it. And that’s the whole thing is, when we went through COVID, we had what we called the Zoom boom, where we all thought we were specialist fund managers because we all bought it when the world markets had collapsed overnight and we all bought these stocks at cheap, cheap prices. They all naturally went up and we all thought we knew what we were doing. You know, and that was across the world. You know, we’re all at it on these apps and I think now a lot of these people are starting to realise, okay, there’s more to it than this, you know, especially going to the times we are now, and that’s when people start to realise you’ve got to live it to be able to fully understand it at all the time.

Dr James: 

Well, a bull market makes a genius out of everybody, as they say yeah, there’s only so far down things can go. And what you’ll tend to find is the market’s like a pendulum. It overreacts each way. Yeah, the pendulum, you’ve got the centre where it should be. You give that pendulum a little bit of momentum and it swings the other side, and it swings back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, like this. And when there’s peak fear and peak greed, what you’ll usually find is it’s really really way too far away from its centre and it can only go one way back. And that is the theory as to why so many people did well, from the zoom boom, as you put it, and crashes that have occurred, you know, ever since the beginning of time, because it is something that happens over and over and over again. So, based on what you’re saying, 100 stocks, 100 funds that contain equities, that are, yeah, well, those stocks are solely funds, are solely consisted of equities. Those are better for people who are younger because they’re further away from retirement.

Adam: 

Yeah, exactly so when I speak to people who are in their 20s and say early 30s and we’re talking about a long, long time before potentially needing this money for retirement, that’s when you push your pension high risk as you can possibly go, give the maximum amount of time to get the maximum out of close. That are those funds. And when it comes really important and this is why, doing what I do you’ve got to know the ins and outs of that person, exactly what they’re going to do in the future, what they want to do, their objectives. Because you have to structure their money around that. Because if I, for example, went to Sunday, come to me, look, I want to retire in five years. I got this, what shall I do with it? And I said, put it at 100% stocks six months before you must retire. We have another COVID. That’s extremely poor advice for myself, because I know that there’s a possibility that could happen and I’ve advised them to do it. So that’s when you have to know exactly who you’re dealing with, the ins and outs of that person, which is why the fact crime process is very important and you build that fund around what they need and objectives are For some people. They come to me and they say look, adam, I just want to keep pace with inflation, so if I go, stick with 100% stocks, I’m going away from what they’ve asked me to do, and then that’s poor advice For them. It would be a case of a balanced fund which has a nice, safe, soft underbelly of bonds, cash and property with an element of equities that can just keep pace with inflation. That’s a bit different now, because we’ve got inflation around 7.5% and that’s another subject for holding too much cash at the moment. There’s never been a more dangerous time to be holding far too much excess cash in your account, because the spending power is dropping by over 7% a year. Even in the good times it’s 2.5%. That’s dangerous to have too much in again, which is why you’ve got to look at your expenditure, your incomes and what you’re happy to have as an emergency fund.

Dr James: 

Well, inflation on average is usually around the 4% mark. Here’s the thing there’s a school of thought that people say inflation is here to stay and it’s going to get higher. Who really knows is the short answer on that one. So it’s not something that we can say for certain, but let’s hope it’s a little bit of a flash in the pan on that one.

Adam: 

Yes, Well, I was looking at a few studies and a couple of people and you’re talking big firms, JPMorgan they seem to think there’s going to level off for Ag 2024 and work its way back down to normal levels. Again, these are just studies and it’s all crystal ball scenarios, but this is what you mean. You’ve got to hedge your bets when it comes to investing. You’ve got to spread it and spread your risk, and that’s what diversification is all about. So you have to plan for every scenario, basically at the same time as having those needs and objectives.

Dr James: 

So when we’re looking at portfolios that are purely equities let’s say we’re invested in funds that reflect huge indexes like the S&P 500, ftse, etc what sort of returns can you typically expect from those? Now, I know that that’s a really hard question to answer because it depends completely on the portfolio, but I suppose what I’m asking is in your experience, what may we expect from those sorts of portfolios? A rough ballpark figure, capital appreciation. Obviously, volatility is in the mix. So what we’re taking is we’re taking capital appreciation, consistent returns over long periods of time. We’re taking the beginning and the end of the evaluation of the portfolio and dividing it over a period of, say, 5 years, 10 years.

Adam: 

So what you’re looking at with some huge indexes like the S&P 500, and they are incredibly resilient indexes. What we’ve got now is about 100, 120 years of data on these types of indexes Go back with and just see. Look, every time there’s been a world event or a crash, how is it reactive? We’ve got a lot of data now to see how these index react. So, to give you an example, I’ve got a graph that I use which shows I’m going back to 1989. Now, if you put £100,000 into the S&P 599, and you left it in there and you did absolutely nothing but just sit there and let it roll and you think about since 1989, we’ve had first Gulf War, second Gulf War, we’ve had 9-11, we’ve had the 0708 huge market collapse, we’ve had COVID and we’ve had the dot-com bubble all these different types of huge world events where the S&P has gone up and down. 100,000 would be about 1.6 million today. By doing nothing, purely by just letting it grow in that index, you’re looking at the S&P with a huge amount of volatility. You’re looking around about 10%, 8% to 10% a year return on a 5-10 year period. So a good index to be in a strong index. The downside to the SB500 is massively backed up by a few tech companies. Your Amazon, your Apple, your Teslas make up a huge proportion of the S&P right now, and that is where you have the risk element to it, which is great. When those companies are doing well, which they are currently doing, one of those companies starts not doing so well. It has a big effect on even a big index like the S&P 500.

Dr James: 

Have you heard of the what’s it called Andy Hart’s podcast, maven Money? Yeah, he is a huge proponent of the 100% equities philosophy not for everyone, of course. Obviously, as you go further along in life you need to balance that out with some capital preservation and not always appreciation. Preservation comes more from bonds, as we know, maybe even have a little bit of cash on there, depending on your suggestions. But yeah, he is a massive proponent of that theory. So would you say that you’re necessarily aligned with him in that you reckon it should be something. How often do you recommend it to your clients, I suppose? How often would you say to them listen, the thing for you is full-on 100% capital appreciation. Are those clients few and far between? Are they common in a certain age group? What’s the split?

Adam: 

So I’d say for those type of clients, it would be, like we said earlier, a younger type of client, but also somebody who’s got a bit of experience. For myself as an advisor, I could never come across somebody for the first time who has no idea what the stock market is all about, say 100% stocks. That’s suicide, in my turn. Of things you have to grab and this is where balance funds can come into it, because you just gradually show them how it works, give them a little bit of volatility, and the more they understand it, the more experience you can start to move your way up. Not that I would ever advise it, but my compliance team would take my head off if I started advising 100% stocks for a brand new rookie investor. So yeah, there is a place for it, but it all comes to do with objectives, age and experience. These are the three things I would look for before doing that sort of investment.

Dr James: 

Absolutely so. It’s not always looking at it purely from the perspective that you want to attain pure gains and pure growth for this individual, you have to balance it with their temperament as well. Absolutely.

Adam: 

You would never believe how some people react to these scenarios, and that’s where you’ve got to educate them from the start. I still have clients who will literally log on to their cancer breakfast every morning and find out how their funds are performing and that’s behind. There’s nothing wrong with that, and I have people that will look once every six months You’ll never know when from the other it’s all. Psychology is at the end of the day, but some people do react to it very differently. They fully understand it. They know they’re not touching it for a long time. They just like to know, and you’ve got to work out that person and work out whether it’s suitable for them.

Dr James: 

I love that. I absolutely love that. That’s so cool. You know, I heard a really interesting analogy about the stock market the other day, and it was to look at it in terms of the fact that you’re buying units appreciating units and you’re exchanging your depreciating units of value, which are cash, for appreciating units of value. But the thing about it is, you know, here’s the thing right, the stock market fluctuates and it goes up and down. Okay, but that’s because we’re using the same yardstick all of the time to evaluate the stock market, which is cash. And is that the fluctuations in the value of the cash or is that the fluctuations in the value of the stock market? But the problem is we’re using the same meter stick, because that’s our meter stick. Whether it gets bigger or smaller, that’s always going to reflect in the valuation of the other thing. Right, here’s one quick analogy on that one. If I have a house and the house is 10 meters long, right, I take a meter stick and I measure it one, two, three, four, all the way up to 10, right, that doesn’t change. What if I take the meter stick and I cut 10 centimeters off the end, but I still call it a meter stick. Yeah, okay right, it’s the exact same analogy, except cash is the meter stick. It’s going up and down in terms of its valuation. We’ve still got the same object, but because we’re using a meter stick which is inherently faulty, the valuation or the length of the valuation of the house is fluctuating. Have you heard that one before?

Adam: 

Yeah, no, that’s brilliant and that’s how you’ve got to explain to these guys is they say, oh, I’m up this much, I’m down this much, I’m like it’s in theory, yes, but until you crystallize it there’s no gain or loss almost at all. You know the crystallizing. That’s the important part about it is when you pull that out of that investment. That’s the crucial bit. And for myself, like I said to you, if you’re somebody that likes to look at the valuation of your investments at breakfast every morning, and if you’re down by 5, 6 grand, if that’s going to ruin your day, 100% stocks is not for you. Simple as that. If your day is going to be ruined by the fluctuations of the stock market, it’s not for you.

Dr James: 

Awesome, that’s cool. Here’s a question. There’s lots of rules of thumb out there about when we should start decreasing our exposure, divesting in stocks and investing in things that are a lot more stable and more likely to preserve our capital in the short term because they have less volatility, and one of those is the rule of 100, or sometimes called the rule of 120. You’ve come across that, I have no doubt.

Adam: 

So yeah, we’ve got the 100 theory. So basically what we look at there is the 100 minus range and then that’s the split we like to have between what we class as our more high risk investment of the equities and then offset that against our sort of what the class is safer investment for your bonds and your property and your cash, et cetera. So 100 minus your age and then that is the split, because obviously all do we get for sort of less risk we want to be naturally. And then how I use that into my own theory is the three buckets. So you’ve got bucket one, which is your cash holdings, bucket two, which would be a safer type of investors your bonds, your property and your cash and bucket three, which is your equities, and what we like to do is just trip feed from bucket three to bucket two, the bucket one, into your back pocket, so whenever you need it. So that’s about a three year process. So what you like to have is if somebody needs that money within three years, it’s not inequities, but it’ll either be lower end of the bonds or in cash ready to access it. So whatever happens in the stock market today has no massive real effect or worry on you about accessing your money, because that money is going up and down You’re not going to need for at least three years. So what that does is alleviate any worries for the clients. So, say, taking an income from the investments, from the pensions, you know you want to make sure that they’re not having to take income from a fund that’s just dropped overnight by 10%, because that’s when funds start running out very quickly.

Dr James: 

I see Interesting. So you’ll actually effectively segregate that money and you’ll say listen, mr Smith, if you want to withdraw X amount year on year from your investments, you take it purely from your bonds bucket or your cash bucket, which has been filled from the equities bucket as time has went on, or do they just take it for free buckets simultaneously?

Adam: 

No, so we’ll always trip feed it. So think of three buckets and the equity buckets on the top. It just trip feeds all the way down into the pocket of the person that needs that money then. So they never actually taken the income. So they want to around a month. They’re not taking that income from the equity bucket, they’re taking it from the cash bucket. So, whatever’s going on in the world, whatever’s going on in the stock market, has no effect on the income they can take, and that alleviates a lot of worries for a lot of clients.

Dr James: 

What do you think of the DIY investor right there just simply painting with broad strokes, using the rule of 100 and withdrawing that money from all of their investments, their whole portfolio, but simply maintaining the balance? Because they have, say, they’re 60 years old and they’ve got 100 minus your age minus. If you take away 60 from 100, there’s 40 left over. So therefore, if you’re following that, you should have 40% equities and 60% bonds. What do you think about the DIY investor just taking what they need from that pot, maybe using the rule of 4%, something like that which you’ve got?

Adam: 

Yeah, that’s a good note. I have 4% of what I would work to. I think is a very good amount. But it’s called sequencing risk, which is the risk of taking money from investment to which you’re on the downhill. Basically, and when you put it into graph form, it’s mind blowing how many years it can take off, how much income you can take from that investment. You take it at the wrong time. So, as a DIY investor, all well and good investing your money, but the important part, like I said earlier, when you crystallize it, that is the important part. That’s what gives you the longevity of your investment and the income you take in retirement. So, diy investors, don’t get me wrong, it’s brilliant. You see, on your Facebook group, there’s an awful lot of knowledge out there and some brilliant things said in there and you can see people really study it and get to know it. But you’ve also got to learn. Yeah, okay, it’s all well and good making money, but do I utilize that in the best way possible and also tax-efficiently? That’s something we don’t always talk about.

Dr James: 

Absolutely so. You think the rule of 100 is something actionable that people could use. Again, not getting into financial advice, of course, we’re still only away from that, but that isn’t that you, broadly speaking, you think that’s a nice rule of thumb that works, or at least it’s Hang on. Let me reverse actually there Maybe not works, but it’s got some validity to it.

Adam: 

It has some validity to it. Yes, you know, but like anything else I’ll say is again, I’m not putting my advisor hat on here You’ve got to understand the risks you are taking as a DIY investor. You have to find, you know, there’s a reason why fund managers retire, really, and it’s because it’s not an easy job. You’ve got to completely live this lifestyle of you. So, yeah, as long as DIY investors, I think as long as you are investing money which is not your lifeline, if you’re playing DIY investing with your pension part, I think that’s taking quite a considerable risk, especially if you are like a dentist or a practice or an associate. You’ve got another job to do, you’ve got other things to think about, you know. So DIY investing, I think it is great and people enjoy it, for as long as it’s not at the your end goal.

Dr James: 

Yeah, well, that’s what I. That’s why I made the group the way that I did, because there was just so much misinformation about out there and I feel like in this day and age, that more Racy, almost gambling style of investing is even more popular and people tend to think that that’s how it looks. But what you’re actually doing, what we keep you doing, is okay. We can maybe have some of that on the side, I get it. Yeah, but the main stage should always be what has consistently generated people wealth over the years. Yeah, but having said that, my argument would be on the flip side. Why we shouldn’t solely focus on that is because it takes so flipping long for people to become wealthy using those methods. Yeah, which is fine, you know, it’s better to have some, it’s better to have some skin in the game on that one, than not be an investor at all, you know. But I actually like there for the right person, for the right temperament, for somebody who has maybe some spare cash, that there are other things out there that can potentially but not a guarantee Pull that retirement date forwards, or maybe not retirement that we use, but financial independence day, financial freedom they’re better terms.

Adam: 

No, but you’re the biggest enemy, though, with, with DIY, investing and all of us as human beings in general, is greed. Okay, we read all we really struggle with greed, so it’s it’s never enough. You know, I have a friend a good example who put a considerable amount of money into Bitcoin going back quite a few years and, like I promise you, if he had doubled that say, initial investment was 50,000 If he it guarantee that day that he put 50 grand in, if he thought he’s gonna get 100 grand back, he would have been over the moon. You know that investment today is worth about 1.3 million. He but the psychology of it cannot bring himself to take that money out. Can’t do it because he thinks it’s gonna keep going up. I’ve made this much. It’s gonna keep going up again and going up again. He can’t bring himself to crystallize any of that money and that’s purely greed. I tell him that you know that’s that’s what we get stuck in, is that we’ll make gains, will make gains, will make gains. But then that’s the problem is is when greed sets in, we start taking higher risk, more risks, and then that’s when it can end up in tears. So that’s what you’ve got to have serious amount of you go your soul. You’ve got to be very strict and disciplined so that, yes, I have these targets, I’m gonna stick to them regardless of what happens. Obviously, always keep an element of it where that investment is. Just take it a little bit so things go wrong. You’ve still got enough to hold full battle.

Dr James: 

Yeah, totally. You know what I mean, because what you’ll tend to find is like, say, the, let’s say you’ve got the, you’ve got your traditional assets, and then you’ve got digital assets and they’re they’re on the block, right? So if we take the cold, hard data of Bitcoin and we extrapolate that over a period of time since Bitcoin began, bitcoin is given Anybody who’s invested it purely buying hold, like what you said an average return of 200% a year. That’s three times your money, right? That’s an average. Now, what we’ve got to bear in mind is that there’s the up years, but there’s also the years where there’s Volatility and that scenario is not quite as the same or as good right with me, but that’s the average. But yeah, you’re totally right. What you’ll often find is, with people who have digital assets is they’ll start out with 5% of their portfolio and digital assets, right, and then all of a sudden, that’s flipping 50% of their portfolio. And then at that point, you know you need to be risk, don’t you? So, yeah, 100% what you said, your friend, if he’s listening Diversify and that’s coming from somebody loves crypto. Okay, me right here. Yeah, what you’ll often find is here’s the thing, adam it’s when you take traditional invest in logic not anything fancy Everyone wants to be traders. We’re talking about investing here, buy and hold DCA, etc. If you take those traditional investment tools or mindsets or methodologies and you put them in the crypto world seriously, you can. If you are just consistent and you have the right mindset, I personally think that you can do well. But the problem with the crypto world is it’s where everybody thinks the gunslingers live. Are you with me? And that’s what everybody tries to do, and then greed kicks in. It takes a person who has serious mastery of themselves as an individual to be able to do that, and the right pair of eyes as well. So, yeah, 100% to your friend who’s listening? Diversity yeah, 100%.

Adam: 

Yeah, you all. Listen to me, listen to you, I hope he does.

Dr James: 

You compare this back to him seriously, because that’s the thing, you know, that’s the thing. Whilst that’s happening, you know he could be securing his cash and in other means, and it particularly needs that. It brings in a whole other conversation. How old is he? When does he want to retire, you know? And if he’s going for out and out gains, then maybe having all of his well, sorry, sorry. If he’s not going for out and out gains and he wants to preserve some of his capital, maybe having his wealth in one place in crypto is obviously correlated to stocks and then therefore risk asset, maybe that’s not the best bet.

Adam: 

No, but what that is is a perfect example of a VIP investor who’s just gone off track a bit. He’s lost sight of what the goal and objective was, and I think that’s so important, Even if it’s just every 12 months. You sit there and you write out what your goals and objectives were. Right, am I on track? Am I not Okay? And then we’ll make a decision from there, Because I think that’s what you’ve got to really work out. If you want to invest, then the best bit of long term, try and work out what is it you’ll need. What is it you’re aiming to get a CPE on track every year, Otherwise, you’re putting money into something for what purpose?

Dr James: 

Absolutely Well, this is it. You have to have the end goal, end goal inside. You really do. That’s actually as fundamental as actually buying the things in the first place. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, interesting when no, let’s refer to the Maven Money podcast again, andy Hart. Yeah, really, for most people who are thinking about financial independence, it’s really what you want to do is get a financial advisor involved, maybe 15 years before you’re thinking about downing tools as a dentist. What you take on that one. Is there a set period of time? Is there a rule of thumb? Is there a time that you would ideally see someone before they’re thinking about moving on financial independence?

Adam: 

For me. I don’t think there’s ever too early to see a financial advisor, purely because I have people that sometimes come to me 15 years before they want to retire. It’s too late. You need as much time as you can possibly can to allow those investors to grow over such a long period and be tax-efficient for that time as well. There’s no point going to an advisor 10 years before you want to retire with nothing to show. There really isn’t, because you’ve run out of time at that point. You need to start as soon as possible. If you understand what you’re doing yourself, then okay, that’s fine. You’ve seen advisor every ad pocket. If you want, go see one every five years just to make sure what plan you put in place. Get somebody who’s got the knowledge and expertise just to run over your plan and say, yeah, that’s by good plan, see you in five years. But if you are that person who likes that backup, likes that constant review process, make sure everything’s on track all the time, then there is never too soon to see one really.

Dr James: 

Here’s the thing, here’s the DIY investor thing slightly flawless line. You know how you were saying earlier about being tax-efficient and how to structure that stuff. There’s certain things that you can do to pretty good standard on your own, but then after that it’s beneficial to have some expertise. One of them is you have all this cash. What actually are your goals with it? Is this something you want to live off? Do you have a surplus and you want to give it to your kids? Is it something that you want to do? Is donate it to a charity or an organisation? That’s where those conversations are nice and that’s where it can be helpful to have some expertise on your side. That conversation becomes a lot more complex and necessary the further we progress in life.

Adam: 

Yeah, definitely because people associate financial advisors with just investing, and obviously that is an aspect of it, but it’s just a part. There’s so many different like, say, the tax planning side of things, the ICES, so I do an awful lot of choices as well. But for kids, as soon as kids are born, bang. We’re buying money to junior ICES. What better gift can an 18-year-old have in 18 years’ time than a big love someone made to buy a car, go to uni with Intergenerational wealth planning, inheritance tax, all these different types of things that people won’t think about or a lot of times people think about how much can I grow my money to? But the aspects around that and how you can utilise the money you’ve already gained is massive Cash flow planning. I will not pretty much not do a meeting without doing any cash flow planning, because numbers on a screen mean absolutely nothing to people unless you put it into perspective. And that’s what cash flow planning does create as many different scenarios as you want and find it right. I’ve got this amount of money. If I grow it by this amount and I spend this much, how long is it going to last? When am I going to win out? Until you actually see that. That’s how you create your goals and objectives.

Dr James: 

Cool good stuff. Food for thought. Food for thought. Adam, you’ve been super generous with your time today. You do, of course, represent the Dental Business Alliance, and we can find you on the group. Maybe you can share a little bit more information about that before we part ways for today.

Adam: 

Yeah, so the Dental Business Alliance. If you just Google Dental Business Alliance, you’ll find it. So we are a group of specialists who deal with dentists, dental practice owners and associates as well, and we have specialists in finance, accountancy, websites, social media. We’ve got decontamination specialists in the group. So I think about it as an all-in-one house sort of way to approach dentistry really and everything you can think about outside of the practice.

Dr James: 

Top stuff, so much food for thought and so many gems in that podcast today, particularly for people who are new to the investing game. But even if you have got a little bit of how can I say a little bit of knowledge and experience, then certainly there’s some stuff in there that you can use to recalibrate. And you know, I always feel like there’s almost two opposing sides. There’s the FAs and then there’s like the DIY guys, right, yeah, but actually, like you’ll find often in life, there’s red, there’s blue and the answer is most often purple.

Adam: 

Yeah, yeah, and that’s the one thing I think we have to get across is the advisors and the DIYs. We’re not enemies. You know, I understand people can be very passionate about what they do and they think what they do is the right thing. At the end of the day, I think, you know, everyone can learn off each other and we’ve got to share what our experiences as well.

Dr James: 

at the same time, yeah, I feel like that conversation is particularly more useful the closer we get to retirement, just as we were highlighting earlier. But yeah, for someone who has the stomach and for someone who’s younger, 100% equities can be something that’s useful. 100% stocks when I say 100% equities, I don’t mean 100% of your money on Amazon, just to be, honest, we’re talking about funds, and funds that represent the valuation of indexes here. So definitely, as I say somewhere to some food for thought, that we’ve given everybody on this podcast today something to recalibrate your investment expectations. And, adam, thank you so much for coming on the show. We will catch up very soon. Cheers. Thanks a lot.