Dr James, 1m 43s:

So we're starting up to the dental podcast today. We're here to talk about the takeaway from Dental Elite Google Report 2526. This podcast is going to be telling the why behind the stats and the report. If you would like to download the report, feel free to look in the description of this podcast. It's gonna be linked by that. That will go into all the stats. What we'll be covering today is some of the key takeaways and things that can be used to the more practical extent for people who are considering buying the next time practice to post this episode. As ever, you can claim your CPD for this episode within the official Dentists Who Invest Smart Money Members Club. Smart Money Members Club also includes multiple mini courses and webinar series on finance for dentists, including how to become as tax-efficient as possible, as well as understanding investing. All this content counts as verifiable CPD, and you can download your certificates there and then upon completion of each lesson. In addition to this, we also include a whopping 10% discount on your dental indemnity and a 5% discount on lab bills for dental principals, amongst other perks and discounts for members. Please use the link in the description to claim your verifiable CPD for this episode. Luke, familiar face in Dental Who Invest podcast, welcome back. Luke is, of course, the owner, co-founder of Dental Elite and the Elite group, because there's a few other strings to Luke's bow, of course, and the mastermind behind the Goodwill report that we're here to talk about today. So, Luke, we're a blank canvas over here. Where do you think is the best place to start whenever it comes to talking about this report and what's come out?

Luke, 3m 26s:

Well, as you just said in your intro, the full Goodwill report is available in the LinkedIn's podcast or indeed on the Dental Elite website. So what I'm not proposing that I do is gonna sit here and spout off load of stats to you. Um, because all of that is available online, yeah, for somebody who's to read it and digest it, um, frankly. And also, let's honest, if I'm reading the stats off the top of the my head, I might make the odd number that's wrong. So read it, read the read the goodwill report, and then if you've got any questions, feel free to talk um to drop me a line. But I guess kind of what I really wanted to focus on in this particular uh episode is to look at the reasons why we think certain things are happening and indeed what we think will happen over the next year. Because I think the next year is going to be really interesting in terms of what the goodwill market does, because of course there's loads of kind of counter-effects that are going on, which are all largely kind of macroeconomic. You know, you've got the warning around and all that kind of stuff. But then also there's some real changes in the dental space, which are actually really impacting what's going on in terms of the attractiveness of practices as we speak at the moment. Um, so I guess the first thing to kind of outset at the moment is the goodwill report is divided into two sections. So the first section looks at what the dental groups are doing, um, and the latter section kind of looks at what the independent market is doing. Now, um, we will touch on sort of what the groups are doing in a minute because that essence often feeds through and filters down into what the independent market does, because often the independent market sort of follows what the group market's doing. They let the group market set the trends. But most people I think who are listening to this podcast are at a position where potentially they're looking to buy a practice, in which case they're probably going to be part of that 70% of um of the practices that we sell, which are still goes to people buying their first, second, or third um dental practice. Um, now I guess the the big thing that's kind of in the report this year is that we looked at it over a 10-year overview because I think there's lots in the press and lots of the dental business gurus and that all will use the phrase, you know, the goodwill bubble. So the bubble that's gonna pop at some point. And if you own a practice and you don't sell now, are you gonna be left holding the baby? Um, and if you buy a practice now, are you gonna be paying well over the odds? And then in two years' time, you're gonna have an asset which is worth a fraction of what you potentially paid for it. And uh, what I like to think the Goodwill report sets out this year is actually if you look at it over a 10-year time frame, what we've seen is basically a steady increase, um, but it is a steady increase. We're not seeing, as I think, with some of the press would have you believe, these kind of big surges in in goodwill. Um, you know, for instance, if I look at the multiple of FMT, which um for those of you that want to understand the acronym, which stands for firm, so fair and maintainable trade, fair and maintainable trade being in the adjusted net profit if you're a full-time principal and you work in there eight to ten sessions a week. So what you would earn both your for your clinical work and from the profit from the business of the practice, is that multiple back in 2017 was 3.32. The multiple in this year's report is 3.31. So frustratingly for a statistician, if you look at where we are 10 years ago to where we are now, actually we've moved 0.01 of a multiple. And we've had a few little you know ups and downs over the time. So if you look at the COVID year, particularly, you know, coming out back of COVID in 2020, that multiple shot right up to 3.8. And one of the reasons why it shot right up is because we had loads of associates who were missed off that they didn't feel they were paid properly during the during the pandemic or didn't have control over their own destiny, and they came back into the market at that point and they bought a load of smaller practices because they hadn't necessarily in their mind budgeted to buy uh a dense practice, and that that led to a surge in the market. But then as we had the interest rate crisis, um, is that that then damping back down? So the height was 2020, 3.8, but we're sitting back now at 3.31. Now, as we look at what's happening at the moment and where we predict it's going to go next year, we think that's gonna go to 3.44, um, which is an increase from where we are now. Um, and I guess the question for that is is that that will then be the second highest. So that will be higher than any other year that we've got to, apart from the 2020 pandemic, which I think we can all pretty much agree was a black swan event and there was loads of other stuff kind of impacting that. Um, and I guess the question is why is that? Why we've suddenly paying more progress now than we were in point over the last 10 years, say for that one year. Um, and I think the truth of the matter is that there, even though we've got all these macroeconomic factors kicking off about inflation and potentially what they're going to do about interest rates, is most people now take a reasonable degree of comfort that even if interest rates go up a quarter return, we're not going to go up to the six or seven percent that was perhaps once feared in 2021, 2022. So there's a there's a there's a comfort over interest rates. Secondly, I think what you've got is you've got a renewed vigour in associates who want to own their own businesses. So we went for a period of time where we had lots more kind of career associates. And actually, I think we've almost U-turned a little bit on that now. And we're speaking to dentists who are younger, so two years post-qualification, and actually now they're looking and go, I really want to own my own practice. And it's in truth why I don't really know why we've had that kind of U-turn. I think some of that is because we do, or we are at the moment graduating a more entrepreneurial kind of dentist, people like yourself, James, who are more interested in fleecular platforms and really looking at what's going on with their investments and what the what they should do and how they can be more than a dentist um you know for the rest of their career. And I think part of that as well is that you've also had a situation where people now are less interested in what the in NHS dentistry. So they're coming out of university and almost immediately they want to do private dentistry um and they're looking at how they can build their Instagram profiles and how they can build the kind of dentistry they want to do, and they want to do it on a more flexible working time basis. And of course, if you want flexibility, the biggest thing that goes with your flexibility is being self-employed. And whilst dentists in the main are all self-employed, it's kind of a weird nuance in the dentistry where they're kind of not really self-employed, but they just have that tax status. Self-true self-employment is where basically you can dictate when you turn up, what you turn up, and what you do. And you only really kind of get that if you're working, you know, in your own practice. Um, so I think part of that is some of the challenge as well. Um, and then I think what you've got is you've also got the ability when you look at other asset classes, is that over the last few years, asset classes are all over the place. So you've got property, you know, particularly now with you know the sort of the Labour government, you know, being a landlord really isn't kind of what you want to be because it is almost like they've made landlords the enemy. And traditionally, I think a lot of them would have invested their money in property portfolios, and that's becoming harder. And if you look at commercial property portfolios, you've got and you've really got to walk down the high street, you know, they're like ghost towns, to find good commercial property investments is really tough as well. So I think people look at dentry now and they go, actually, do you know what? Over the last 10 years, we've never bad interest rates, we've had inflation, we've got a pandemic, and yet the biggest thing that's been resilient across that entire 10-year time frame is dental practice. Not a single point in that 10-year says dental practice gone. Do you know what? We're having a bit of a hard game at the moment. Or if we are, we're certainly not having it as tough as anyone else's. Um, so I think that as well is giving, you know, if you like, a renewed confidence in dental practice. And part of that is almost compounded by the one of the other findings in the independent market in the report, is it the from whilst the goodwill report, multiple, if you like, is pretty much like pretty much flat the other way here or there, is that actually if you look at the average revenue trend, or you look at the average F and F F T, and I don't mean FLT multiple, I mean the average principal profitability over the last 10 years, those graphs are steady, steady, steady, steady boom. And they've all shot up, particularly in the last kind of couple of years. Now, some of that, of course, is because we've been in a more inflationary environment. So if you look at, and we're talking numbers in cash terms here as opposed to numbers in multiples. So some of that, if you're looking at on a real terms basis, yes, it's not quite as boom as may as maybe the graph would make it look. But I do think it is reflective of the fact that you've got practices where actually they have been able to put up their prices to meet inflation. Um, you have had people who are prepared to pay it. Some of that is because coming up for that improvement, people have a lot of more money in their pocket. And then what that meant is that actually they had a renewed interest in how they look. You know, we are part of the Instagram generation now. So again, people are looking in the cameras, looking in their phones a lot more than they were. So generally, you know, the younger sort of you know, millennial or Gen Z, you know, are more interested in what their teeth look like than perhaps the couple of generations before them. Um, and so that has seen that actually the average earnings of a principal dentist um have increased um quite a lot over that kind of 10-year time frame.

Dr James, 11m 59s:

So specifically the principals, but not as much the associates.

Luke, 12m 3s:

Specifically the principals, and again, you've kind of touched into where I was going to go next, is that actually if you look at associate remuneration, whilst associate remuneration has gone up a bit over the last sort of few years because people have been able to demand more for UDA because of some of the recruitment challenges.

Dr James, 12m 19s:

In sorry the origin, but in real terms it's gone up a bit?

Luke, 12m 23s:

In real terms it's gone up slightly. Um but if but if you look at it in terms of how it's gone up um in relation to principles, it's not gone up by anywhere near the same amount. And some of that is because there's some downward pressures on associate remuneration as well. So whilst there's upward pressures on NHS, some of some of the practices now where they've had to spend more money or marketing or bank fees are higher, is that you used to have the 50% standard private free arrangement for associates, and that has moved more towards 45 to sort of 42.5% for an experienced private book. And some of that, in my view, is justified because you've got a private principal who's spent thousands over the years building that book through marketing or from maybe they built it themselves and then passed it on. So an associate's coming in and they're not necessarily having to do the legwork to build that book, but either way, it doesn't change the statistics that actually that 50% arrangement isn't there in the same that it was quite a few years ago.

Dr James, 13m 18s:

Makes sense. And by the way, just to be hyper clear, you know, when you were talking about principal earnings going up and that being a trend, and it seems to be going exponential as of recently, we're not including the profitable the practice profits in that this is literally just their take-home, is that correct? Or their drawings?

Luke, 13m 33s:

I would include the practice profits, so that's the FNT. So that's what they earn as an independent dentist. Um that's what they earn to as an independent dentist, both from the business of the practice and from their their clinical work.

Dr James, 13m 45s:

Oh, well, then that makes complete freaking sense, right? Even more so, because obviously if associate splits are going down, that kind of stacks up, right?

Luke, 13m 54s:

Yeah, and and whilst in this but whilst because we group the report into groups and independence, that won't include practices that ultimately are bigger, but if then sold to the dental groups, you'll see that there is the same trend in the group practices as well. Is even DAR over the last five years has gone up from like 37 and a half percent in cash terms. Um so there's been some big surges in practice profitability in cash terms over the over the last five years as well.

Dr James, 14m 19s:

Interesting, because that seems to be uh against what a lot of people uh you know, completely anecdotally, but so many I always see so many principles on social media being like, man, it gets harder and it gets harder and harder.

Luke, 14m 33s:

A lot of people are having to work harder for it because we know we've had increases in national living wave, you've had increases in employers' national insurance, there's been inflation repression, materials and outfits, there's been all of that. But the truth is that a lot of prices have then been able to alter their pricing structure to better navigate the way around that. And in a number of, well, you could argue that in a number of ways, those price increases have more than offset those those challenges. If the anything is given stoners good leverage for their patients to be able to increase their prices because they've had factors which are wider known in the in the press. So a patient goes, Oh, yeah, I understand that I know now that actually we're in a 6% or 7% inflationary environment. So that's why I've got to pay 10% more for my dentistry.

Dr James, 15m 17s:

Fascinating. Well, I didn't see that one coming, but that's why we we always measure the data before we draw our conclusions, right? UK dentists, Dentists Who Invest now has an official platform where you can learn about finance and obtain UK compliant, verifiable CVD at the same time. The only platform that exists on which you can do both. The Smart Money Members Club has hundreds of hours of mini courses, webinar series, and live day recordings on all things finance slash tax efficiency for UK dentists. This includes complete courses on how tax works for UK dentists, finance so that you can invest and grow your own money, business so you can improve your profitability as an associate or principal. And for those out there that want it, there's also a mini course and how you can responsibly enter the crypto space using measured amounts of capital. I've gathered this content from the best of the best I could find in each respective area so that you know that this is how people at the forefront of each field advise their clients. The Smart Money Members Club also contains discounts on common things that UK dentists need to pay for on a regular basis. This includes a whopping 10% discount on dental indemnity, the offer to beat your income protection deal no matter what you're paying, and for the principals out there, 5% discount on lab bills and 10% discount on practice insurance. These are designed to offer hundreds, if not thousands, in annual savings. The purpose of this members club is to not only boost your monthly income but also manage your outgoings as much as possible and therefore create more profit. To celebrate the launch of the Smart Money Members Club, and given that the CPD deadline is coming up soon, I've decided to offer the first month for this platform entirely for free. This offer will end in the coming weeks as soon as the current CPD cycle is up. To collect your CPD for this podcast episode using the Smart Money Members Club, feel free to use the link in the description of this podcast.

Luke, 17m 14s:

Yeah, so it's so that so that so that I think is quite interesting. And I think that that you do tell that with a market where banks are more competitive than they ever have been. Um and I don't necessarily mean that in terms of you know what people are paying, because don't mean wrong, I've been doing this a long time, and I can still remember the days where people paid 1% or 1.1% plus base to borrow money to buy dental practice, and we're not quite in that territory, but probably for the first time in sort of quite a few years, we're now talking interest rates that are just below the two. So we you know we are seeing 1.8, 1.9% above base. Um and equally we're seeing lending terms now on lots of different features that can kind of that will work for different people. So some people are buying practices and then putting them on a 12-month repayment holiday, which means they're just paying interest for that 12-month period, which gives them cash flow back into the business if they want to invest in it or get, you know, or put a new chair in and really grow that business before they then just say a cash flow here to repay down that debt. You've got some banks now who are lending over a 20 to 25 year term as opposed to a 10 to 15 year term, which again elongates out of that cash flow, so increases the cash flow into the business for people who've got ambitions to either take more money out of the business or indeed to develop and grow their business or buy a second practice um later down later down the line. Um, and as I said, you've got interest rates generally that have kind of softened from the business rate margin as well. So for when you've got multiple banks in the sector, which we have at the moment, um, then in that respect, that also puts a you know a really big up a pressure on what people are prepared to pay for practice because it becomes a lot more accessible for you to buy them. Um and it doesn't necessarily make as much of a hit on what they might have earned as an associate as they're stepping into a practice if they've got you know 25 years to pay about the money as opposed to 10.

Dr James, 18m 57s:

Crazy. There we go. So this is why you know it's look as interesting, right? Because before you and I hit recording this podcast today, uh we were we were just talking about the market, weren't we? And you said that actually it's as bubbly as ever, even though we would have thought that uh post the April post-April the 6th, now that B A B A B A D R went up by 4%, you might have thought I thought there would have been a bit of a slump there because people were trying to get in before that date. Uh, but perhaps it's these factors that are contributing to the market being buoyant.

Luke, 19m 31s:

Yeah, I mean, and just anecdotally is the fact that in terms of vulnerable practices we see every year, we're selling pretty much the same as what we sold the past four or five years. Um and in one respect, that's almost head scratching because I blame the ADR changes for making us busy and all that kind of stuff. And I've given up trying to work out why we get so many people now that call us up every year looking to sell our practice. Um, because every year there's a different excuse. But I think what is interesting is that if we had spoken 18 months ago and you'd said to me, how many practices we got on the market, I would have said somewhere between 55 and 60. Any given time we'd have that many practices on the market. Now, as that sounds at the moment, and that has been the case for the last six months or so, we have only somewhere between 30 to 35 practices on the market. That's a massive drop. That's that's 40% less practices on the market, but we're not selling any less. We're selling the same volume of practices that we sold before. So, which um and which means is that we're selling faster. So practices are coming to market and lost the market within sort of you know three, four weeks of coming to market, as opposed to it being a 12-week marketing process. So there's been that almost that expertise, and that again demonstrates that competitive tension um within the market when people, when practice is coming to market, and then you know, being totally founded, is that we've had situations, there's two situations over the last fortnight where we've had explainful buyers because they haven't been able to view a practice. Because we've had situations like we had a site in London where he did 16 viewings all on the first weekend, he got something like eight asking price offers and over-asker price, and even though there was another you know, got like 10, 12 viewings but in, he said, I can't be asked. I don't want to do the viewings, I've got more than what I thought for my practice already. Um, and I don't want to do the viewings. So, of course, if you want to buy that's going in week weekend number two, you're like, Well, that's not fair. And in reality, it's not fair, you know, it's it's ultimately, but I can't make vendors do viewings, and then when you've got a market that has got that is that competitive, um, is actually that that is what is happening, is you know, speed is of the essence sometimes.

Dr James, 21m 28s:

Good time to sell if someone's thinking about it then.

Luke, 21m 31s:

So uh yeah, and I guess that's the other thing I was going to talk about, is is is that how the market is moving a little bit on the group side. Because on the group side, what we've seen is a resurgence, is the tier threes and tier fours, which you know, for those who haven't listened to me before, basically is people own somewhere between three and twenty dental practices, and then we group them into tier one and tier two. There were people that own more than 20 dental practices, with tier one being the big five and tier two being anyone below that. Um, is that this year we've had a flipping, is that last year tier three and tier four were the busiest groups. They it was all about the small groups, they were doing the deals, they were out there buying fluences, and the tier ones and tier twos were really struggling because their private experts or their investors were saying, Well, you know, we want you to buy practice on a 70% initial consideration and 30% preferred basis. And that's you know, that's how we want to do it because then we're hedging our risk when we when we bought a practice. Now, what that meant a lot all of last year is that the tier fours would come in and say, Well, I'll give you 90% off front, or I'll give you all of the money on completion. Um, and if you were sat as a vendor, you'd go, Well, of course, I'm going to take the tier four offer because they are burning hands as well as tuna bush. For those of you into investment, the net present value of 90% of your hand is a lot better. Probably it's a 90% of the income of money in your hand is a lot better than probably having 70% and then a slightly higher 30% later down the line. Um, by the time you've kind of worked it all out. Um, and and generally there's that whole idea of just it feels better because you've got the money, you feel safer. Um, so a lot of those prats are sold to tier fours, um, even at a slightly lower price, because actually that was what the principal wanted. Now, that meant tier one and tier two really struggled last year to kind of get off the ground in terms of making acquisitions because they were uncompetitive and they weren't uncompetitive on price, they were often uncompetitive on deal structure more so. So they have to go back to their investors over the last year and say, look, we can't make acquisitions on this basis, we just can't do it. We're being outbid by the local operators. And now you've got all of a sudden a tier one and tier two coming back into the market and offering competitive on price, but also now offering really competitive on deal terms. And you know, they are then able to make those gains because some people have. Prefer to sell to Tier One or Tier Two because they've taken the view that they think they're more likely to get the money, or they don't then have a bank involved, so they're happier with that and pull that infrastructure because they're able to move a bit faster. Um, and so we've had a lot of that. I mean, I didn't think I'd ever see a day where I'd see a tier one, which is one of the big five dental corporates, you know, do multiple offers with all of the money on completion. And we've had that on four or five opportunities recently where they have given no third consideration whatsoever. It's like, here you go, here's seven million quid, I'll give it to you on the day of completion, and you can walk around six months later. We just did not see those deals three years ago.

Dr James, 24m 18s:

There we go. Okay, interesting. Well, uh, just like I was saying earlier, this is the the beauty of having data uh right in front of us so we can we can we can observe these trends. Uh so yeah, it is just worth shouting out one more time for the listeners of the podcast that if we do want to download the full report, it is going to be in the podcast description. Luke, have we done a good job of summarising all the the headlines, I guess, from it, or is there more to it?

Luke, 24m 42s:

I think so. Yeah, the one other kind of crystal ballgazing point that we think is really interesting uh is what's going on with NHS multiples. Is that NHS has kind of been you know the poor pauper, if you like, for the last three or four years. Everyone's kind of wanted private practice. And now, of course, we've had these adjustments to the NHS contracts, which you know will allow them to nurses to provide fluoride application, you know, at you know, half the UDA. And a lot of producers aren't paying the nurses any extra, or if they are, they're paying them maybe a pound an hour, two pounds an hour. And say if they do floor, four fluoride applications at a bit of time twist up, four fluoride applications in an hour.

Dr James, 25m 16s:

Yeah, so yeah, okay, there you go. You get that out of these.

Luke, 25m 20s:

Uh that's two UDAs. So arguably, if you're not paying a dentist to do those two UDAs, the price is £28 to the good. If you're paying your associate £14 the UDA, yet if you pay the nurse a pound an hour extra to do them, you've saved yourself in that spent £27 in that extra profit. Um, we think quite a lot of the groups uh for this reason have really caught on to this, and that's the way they're going to go, is they're going to push a lot more work into therapists and nurses, which is often they're going to cheaper delivery. And so the NHS modules at the moment, because of course these kind of challenges aren't budgeted into the evident dog because people haven't been doing it, is that so far NHS module for this year is up to 7.7 times, which exceeds NHS and mixed and private practice by quite some margin.

Dr James, 26m 5s:

And look, can I just highlight one thing? Just highlight one thing for the benefit of the listeners. How you define NHS is 80% of the turnover or above being from initial resources, right? I remember you saying that before, just for clarity to the audience, because sometimes, because until we say that out loud, people are like, Yeah, but 100% NHS practices do they even exist? 80% and above.

Luke, 26m 25s:

80% 80% and above is an NHS practice. So that multiple there that I just said around 7.7 times or 7.68 to be precise, is up from 7.15 just in the last year. And that's a that's a massive swing. Um and what we're seeing is we've done one example in the Midlands at the moment, one example in the South East, where big NHS practices have gone to market and they have had seven or eight, all of the big groups all crawling over them, all offering them well above asking price to kind of get the you know to secure the practice. Um, and then even when an offer's been accepted, is then they come back and they counter again. It's that's the whole bidding process reopens again because they have to they keep countering. Um because I think they recognize that actually the the potentially the dar on these national health practices is going to increase significantly now. We've had these slight alterations to the NHS contract.

Dr James, 27m 12s:

That is really flipping fascinating. I didn't actually know that about the NHS contract as well. And that is that seems very small. 0.5 of UDA to apply fluoride. I mean, that stacks. That stacks a lot, particularly if you're leveraging and getting your team to do that. Interestingly, any other contract changes? I didn't actually know that. I'm curious.

Luke, 27m 31s:

Yeah, there's a couple other contract changes. The other big one is to do emergency dental care. So you now get 80 pounds now for unscheduled care. Um, and of course, a lot of associates used to be paid 1.2 UDAs for that unscheduled care. So, again, if you were paid 14 quid, you know, to make mass easy, you'd be paying what, 15 pounds 14 um for that delivery. Um, and City Rass was getting 1.2 UDAs for it. So, you know, let's say they've been getting £40 if you average speaking for that. They're now getting £80. Um, and whilst some groups are passing on some of that to their associates, they're not passing all of it on. So again, unscheduled care, which they now have to deliver uh £8, was it £8.50. Um a certain percentage of the contract is unscheduled care, which I should know that's in my mind. Um, then that will need substantially increased profitability um going forward um on some of these practices where they can meet the unscheduled care target.

Dr James, 28m 20s:

Did not know that because I remember back in the day pulling a tooth for 1.2 UDAs. No friggin' way, no way. That's so much um uh how can I say this potential for you to cut cause yourself liability for for a paltry 1.2 UDAs, you know what I mean? I uh that something needed to be done there. Any other ones? I'm really curious now.

Luke, 28m 40s:

Uh well they are they were meant to bring a new pathway, a clinical pathway in the beginning of June, but basically they it's all gonna be ping tong and they weren't and the NHS weren't ready for it, so that's not been brought in. But there is going to be an alteration to um the pathway um of some kind of complex tare, um, which will probably come in now, I think later in the year.

Dr James, 28m 57s:

There we go. Luke, let's shout out that uh goodwill report in the podcast description one more time. Feel free uh if you're listening to this podcast to download that, uh, everything that we talked about in today's podcast and more in there, all the juicy details, all the stuff that we didn't have time to cover. Luke, I think we've done an absolutely resounding job. Well, I shouldn't say me, we, I should say you actually, because a lot of those facts that were recounted came from your side, of course. So thank you as ever for appearing on the Dentist Invest podcast. If anybody wants to reach out to Luke personally, they can do so via your what your website, Luke, which is Dental Elites on URL. Dental UK. There we go. Or you can of course find Luke on the Dennis Invest Facebook group. Just go ahead and search Luke Murray. In the meantime, Luke, I hope you have a smash and thoroughly and we'll see each other again very soon.

Luke, 29m 46s:

Yeah,