Anick, 1m 43s:

We're Anick and Luke and we run the Videre Financial Planning. We help people make the most out of their lives, their money, and most importantly, their time. Some of you here will be practice owners or expires. And amongst the many ideas acting in decades, you're going to want to step back, slow down a bit. Now we're not here to tell you how to do tell your practice, but we're confident hopefully we're gonna tell you how to tell it. Oh tell it more stories. The answer is that isn't one number. It's true.

Dr James, 2m 19s:

As ever, you can claim your CPD for this episode within the official Dentists Who Invest Smart Money Members Club. Smart Money Members Club also includes multiple mini courses and webinar series on finance for dentists, including how to become as tax efficient as possible, as well as understanding investing. All of this content counts as verifiable CPD, and you can download your certificates there and then upon completion of each lesson. In addition to this, we also include a whopping 10% discount on your dental indemnity and a 5% discount on lab bills for dental principals, amongst other perks and discounts for members. Please use the link in the description to claim your verifiable CPD for this episode.

Anick, 3m 2s:

Every conversation we ever have with a practice owner starts with what's my practice worth? And it's a reasonable question to ask, but it's the wrong one. You see, the right one is what do I need? Because the sale price is the output, it's not the starting point. Around 80% of practice owners don't have a clear written plan, which is an issue when, on average, you need about a five-year runway before selling it to get your ducks in a row. The main number people focus on the sale value is the one on the whiteboard, but it's it's often the one that is focused on when we should be looking at the others. We're here today to flip that around and for you to hopefully understand what enough actually means. And by the end of it, you'll hopefully see that it's not the most important number. So, this is the framework that we use, and we call this the informed uh exit approach. So, first of all is your lifestyle number, and we'll go through each of these in a bit more detail. Simply put, how much do you need to never run out of money? All this stuff, the fun stuff, holidays, travel, etc. Number two is the legacy. How much do you want to leave to the family? And number three, the exit number. How much do you need to sell the practice for? Most people jump straight to three without any regard for one and two. And when we think about this, it's it's so important to really understand how one and two factor into this before we before we move on. But we're gonna flip it, and hopefully, as we go through it, you can start to see how your numbers may factor into this. The conversation usually goes like this: Anick, Luke, I want to sell my practice for a million pounds. And we'll go, why? And usually it's met by a bit of silence, and then some more silence. More often than not, occasionally someone might turn around and give some sort of valid, well thought-out response. But most of the time it's a case of someone saying, My friend said it's worth a million pounds, or I had a valuation done a year ago or two years ago from a corporate. But mainly it's because a million pounds is a big number and it just feels like enough. So they go through with the process, they pull the ripcord, one time-only event in life, can't put the genie back in our bottle, they retire, and then they start to panic because they've not really thought about how much enough is. Looking the other way, with the informed approach, we calculate the lifestyle number, how much is needed to never run out of money. Add in some sensible inflationary factors, withdrawal rates, what about rebalancing? Asset allocation, how should we hold our money? We then add in the legacy number, how much should we leave for the family? And then, only then, we get to the exit number. This means we can plan with confidence and know the minimum amount the practice needs to be sold for. And this crystallizes everything in our minds when it comes to the sale of a practice. Because when we know that, we can proceed with confidence.

Luke, 6m 34s:

The uh lifestyle number. Um, how many of you know exactly how much you spend on lifestyle every month? How much of you, how many of you run a monthly budget? Anybody? Yeah, okay. That's probably what I expected. Yeah. So for us, it's all about being intentional with your money across all parts. That's what financial planning is, it's at the core of financial planning, ultimately, is being intentional. And the lifestyle number for us is the starting point. How much are you spending on your essentials, your basic living costs? So that's running your house, that's your utilities, that might be council tax, everything that goes into running your uh main residence. Um, then you might move on to look at your discretionary spending, that's the fun stuff, that's really what it's all about. And when you dissect the correlation between money and happiness, all of the studies really show that uh you should be investing in experiences with those that you love in order to get the maximum uh return on your money and the maximum levels of long-term happiness and fulfillment. So, discretionary spending, and that's not necessarily just what you're spending now. There could be things you're spending money on in the here and present that you'd like to drop that that aren't really adding huge amounts of value to your uh life when you dissect it and pull it apart and do some analysis on what's going out. Um, and there might be things that you take a look at and think, well, actually, I've you know, we we do get a lot of value from allocating our resources to this portion of um uh our spending, and we'd like to increase it. Uh, and that's part of the planning process is to really get into each individual line item and work out uh whether it's adding value to your life or not. There's some things you can't escape, obviously, you're always going to have uh your your bills, um, but there's lots of things that you can be more intentional about and and really assess and analyse. And for us, discretionary spending is is at the core of it. Family support, uh, if you have children, or perhaps even we have some clients that support parents, uh, is those that you care about and and it's sitting down and working out exactly how you wish to support them uh in in their lives. Uh, and I'm a big advocate of taking some time to put some numbers to that and really work out um what you want to do for your children and not necessarily leaving that too late because it's much more rewarding to see them benefit from that money uh in in the years where they need it, and things might be more difficult for them than necessarily leaving it to the latter stages of of life where they may have gone through their own career and uh you know some of the struggles that you you might or they might encounter earlier on in that that part part of their life, young kids, mortgages, etc. Um, so and it's also about setting them up for success. And we know that weddings cost money, we know that houses cost money. Uh it's really taking a uh putting a framework around what you uh really want to do for your loved ones. Um and the fourth element is really some resilience. Uh it's having some some fat in the plan, uh, making sure that it will uh encounter all different scenarios. So when we do a financial plan for clients, we want to ensure that our clients don't run out of money. And so we need to have a uh a margin of comfort. We need to price up any possible outcomes that they uh might not be expecting uh that could things go badly, derail the financial plan. Um so we will always try and add some uh some some numbers to that. We've got on there on the on the slide. Uh care costs is a prime example of that. Now, not everybody goes into a care home, not everybody necessarily has help in-house, but a lot of people do need some assistance, and we will price that into a financial plan. Longevity is another key risk to a financial plan, and we will always make assumptions that clients will live a very long life. Um, because again, the number one risk of any financial plan, and the number one risk when you do exit your business is that you haven't done the plan and that you do run out of money. Um, and so the three scenarios, possible outcomes on the side here uh ring true. Uh there's only really three outcomes when you go through that process. You're either going to have enough money, you've got things just right, you've got freedom, you've got choice, you don't have stress that comes with not having enough money. Um I faithfully have to say, having dealt with a lot of dentists over the last 15 years. I've met very few that fall into that first category, ultimately, if I'm if I'm honest with you. There are some that we have some have to do some real planning around to ensure that the money lasts. Um but quite a few priorities do end up falling into that third category where they've got too much, and the plan shifts focus, uh, which I'll come on to in a moment, uh, to uh what do you do when you've worked for a long period of time, built up significant assets, uh, and you've got a 40% silent business partner, which is HMRC. Um and so if you don't do the planning correctly, you do run the risk of passing a significant amount of your accumulated assets to uh HMRC who's been with you all the way through your journey, uh not necessarily contributing a huge amount, um, but they've certainly had their their piece uh all the way through. So, what does that actually look like? Now, some of you may have heard of the 4% rule. Now, the 4% rule is I'd even hesitate to say it's a rule of thumb because it's not. It's based on uh research and a study done, US data out of date in truth. But there is some merit in in using it just to help people think of some numbers. So, what it really means, and here I've it's it's explained it as the 25 rule, it's the same thing. You know, if you have capital, the idea is that you could uh take four percent of that capital every year, increasing with inflation, and not run out of money. A big um misconception is the idea that that's not touching the capital. That's not what the rule says, that's not what the research says. It doesn't say that if you invest a million pounds and take four percent every year for the rest of your life that you can have a million pounds uh in in real terms at the end of the day. That is not categorically what what the rule's about. Um to go the other way, the 25-year rule is just saying, well, if you've worked out roughly what your lifestyle costs uh and multiply it by 25, then you go the other way and you can come to the the uh the capital sum. Uh what that doesn't account for ultimately is tax, it doesn't account for NHS pensions, state pensions, and various other things. So that is just really trying to put a capital sum on a lifestyle cost, just as a general uh general benchmark. Um, what does that look like nationally? So if you look at the data across the UK, the there's a body of research by the uh national retirement living standards, I think it's called. Um broadly speaking, for a household, 60,000 pounds a year is deemed a top-tier retirement, 5,000 pounds net of tax uh every month is deemed a very good retirement in the UK. There's two tiers below that, and I'd say uh the bottom tier I in in today's economy, I'd be amazed if people could survive off it. In truth, it's really two two-state pensions, which doesn't go particularly far for most people. Um, for our clients, for us that's the starting point. Um from experience, I think that's that's a fair starting point, and then it's working out uh what each client, and everybody's different, and there are no right or wrong answers, it's your your numbers ultimately. Um, what what does your ideal lifestyle look like for the rest of your life? Um, the other thing to say about the 4% rule or the rule of 25 uh is it it doesn't really account for the fact that you do not spend the same amount of money all the way through life. Um the the general uh kind of trajectory tends to be that you uh you retire, um your spending is at its highest point because you've got an an abundance of time now all of a sudden, and so you're you're spending uh you're going on holidays, you're you're you're you're ticking a few things off the list in that earlier phase. Um, but then as you get older, you get less active, and the spending tends to plateau slightly. Um and then in in your later years again, uh when you're less mobile, then again, you you may even find that you're back into what we would call accumulation again because you're just not spending the the uh the secure uh income that that you're receiving. And so for us, it's very important to do a proper financial plan where we're not just gonna say it's 60, 90, 120 a year for to age 100. It's much better to allow for some front-loaded costs. I met with clients uh this week. They're ecstatic at the fact that they've booked 100k worth of holidays uh over the next two years, and I'm confident that they can achieve that because they've got the macro financial plan where we've charted their trajectory, we've looked at their numbers, and we know that they're going to be okay with that level of spending. Um not 100k every year, uh, but we know that they're secure and on the right path. The legacy number. So I mentioned your silent partner uh who's been with you for some time and will be with you forever and a day. Um this is really protecting what matters. This is being intentional about how you wish to pass on your wealth to uh future generations. There's only two things you can do with your money, ultimately. The money that you've earned, the money that you may release if you sell a business. There's only two things you can do with it. You can either spend it, try and encourage, very uh is a strange scenario actually. We have a number of clients that are baffled at the fact that they're financial, they see financial traditional financial advisors, but their their financial advisor is encouraging them to spend money. And I'm uh very much in favour of making sure that clients fully understand that time is the most precious resource, and ultimately uh they need to either spend it or gift it, and they're the two only things that you can do with your capital. So the lazy number is taking a step back and saying, Um, who do you wish to benefit from your money? And that could be children, it could be uh some clients, it's nieces and nephews, it could be uh charities, it could be causes, but it's sitting down and working out what what do you want to happen, when do you want it to happen? Is this a case of you wish to go and have some fun and whatever's left is is left? Um, or do you want to be more intentional about it and put in a series of gifts over time? Um, but I think that word intentional is is at the heart of that because timing and the timing of gifts is vitally important. Um so it's about to whom, how much, and when. Uh the RHT side, so if you have a practice, if you're a business owner, um one thing you may or may not be aware of is whilst you have your business, it's a trading business, unless it's of uh a value in excess of two and a half million pounds, you know, your your practice is exempt from inheritance tax. The moment you sell, all of that money drops into your estate and is now subject, if you were to pass away, to IHT, over and above the uh the bands that we have. So it's worth knowing that that life event, that transition, is also a big tax event that should be planned for. Um and you know, the the for us, the the lifestyle plan, the retirement plan goes hand in hand with the IHT plan. Doesn't mean it has to happen immediately, um if it if it's a if if it's a couple, but it's starting those conversations and having an idea of how you wish to transition your wealth to those that you care about or to the causes that that you care about. The cost of skipping the legacy conversation. Um, so uh I'll be honest, the the point at the top there, will tells you where assets go. One of our uh challenges, uh I shall say, as financial planners, is actually getting clients to write wills. Uh for some it's uh an annual conversation. Um I don't know why that is. I think it's because people ultimately don't like thinking of their demise or their death, sorry. Um but it it is important obviously to write down exactly uh where you wish your assets to go, but it doesn't deal with um that requires planning. Uh the standard nil rate band, um the standard uh threshold, sorry, three two five uh standard nil rate band uh for a couple 650, two lots. Uh and on top of that, some people will also have a main residence nil rate band, which is another 175 per person. So for a couple 350, which means, in theory, as a household, you could have a million pounds that is exempt from inheritance tax. However, that's not strictly always true because the main residence nil rate band is actually called back.

Dr James, 19m 59s:

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Luke, 21m 51s:

Crawl back once you have assets uh in excess of two million pounds. So, and and I should say that from next year, pensions, uh private pensions, investment-based pensions, are now also subject to inheritance tax. So if you've got your main residence and you've got your pension wealth and you've sold your practice, uh you've sold your business, you've got ISA savings, you've got investments, etc., and they exceed two million pounds, and then the uh main residence nil rate ban starts getting chipped away to the point where you reach 2.35 million pounds of assets, it's gone entirely. Um, and so don't just think, oh, there's a million pound threshold. There's there's not, there's not a million pound ban for many now, particularly with the changes to pensions being brought into the estate for inheritance tax. That's it's on the uh pension side.

Speaker 4, 22m 41s:

Yes.

Luke, 22m 42s:

Not NHS, not NHS, because there's no capital value to your NHS pension ultimately, it's gonna die with you and your spouse or your partner. Um so you can't pass that on to kids, so it's not subject to IHT. And that's the biggest drawback of the NHS pension ultimately is it's it's as good as a long if you live a long life, you've had very good value from it. If you don't, uh and you know, your spouse is gonna get a portion of it, and then it dies with them ultimately. Yeah.

Speaker 4, 23m 7s:

So what if what happens to a well save the practice and the other that's own a limited company structure? What happens to the IHT company?

Luke, 23m 16s:

How does it so the limited company is is if you own the shares of the limited company personally, it's no different, isn't it? It's on your balance, it's on your personal balance sheet. So if you if you whatever your asset base is really going to be your investments, that's the same. It's it's shares in the company, it's just another form of investment ultimately. So unless you put those shares into trust or you gift those shares, and that is where this comes into play, um, then it's all ultimately. Together for the calculation. Yeah. So I mean I touched on that there. There are various things that you can do over time and various levers that you can pull over time to try and mitigate the impact of inheritance tax and trusts and companies are actually part of that. You know, there are clients that might benefit from family investment company structures. But the important thing to say is, and I on the last slide I said about you know, when you sell, that money's going to land in your on your personal balance sheet and be subject to our inheritance tax. If you're thinking of an exit, then it's important to have that conversation with a tax advisor and with a financial planner or joined that conversation to work out what's going to be the best long-term structure for wealth. And that's the conversation around trusts and family investment companies and whether they're any use to the individual. And that's worth having at least two years before you look to sell because if it falls in, you know, it's less than two years, there's less things you can you can do, particularly around putting shares in in trust pre-exit. So that's why we always encourage. I'm behind time on it. I need to get a move on, sorry. Um that's why we encourage the conversation to happen uh as as soon as possible. I think you're an excellent one.

Anick, 25m 2s:

So after we have looked at the first two numbers, we finally can come on to the third number, the exit. Because once we, and as Luke's just been through, have gone through the first two, the exit number is no longer a guess, it's a forecalculation. And it's the minimum price that the practice needs to be solved for, or simply put, it's what we need after we factored everything in. We've got an equation there with how we like to think about it. So the exit number is the lifestyle, so what we need for the rest of our lives, plus what we want to leave the family, minus everything else. It's it says there, it's derived, it's it's no guesswork. The more calculated we are about it, the more precise and confident we can be with it. Crucially, though, it can often be a lot lower than we think about it. Most practice owners that we speak with think the practice has to do the heavy lifting when it comes to a sale. With a comprehensive financial plan and optimization, with things all around the balance sheet, investment efficiency, tax efficiency, quite often the practice sale, it's we don't have to rely on it as much as you think. But that only comes with forward planning, like Luke's mentioned, looking at shares into trust, looking at the picture and making sure we're we're clear with what the direction of travel is. So this is a real life example, names have been anonymized. Um, very original anonymization, Dr. A and Dr. B. So Dr. A, single site mixed practice, has no financial plan. Their view's very much been they'll sell for whatever they can get. They've not really thought about their lifestyle, not thought about their legacy. Someone came in for an offer for 850. 850 seems like a big amount of money, let's go for it. So off they popped. Then six months later, they started to panic and panic and panic because it runs the risk of not knowing what happens and then the anxiousness and worrying it what does enough look like. We then moved to Dr. B. So Dr. B started with the the two numbers first. We looked at how much their lifestyle need was, and that was about £80,000 per year, inflation linked. They wanted to leave half a million to the family, so when we capitalised that, it's around two and a half. When we look at their existing provisions, so pension ISES 1.4, it means the exit value is 1.1 as a minimum. Someone happened to come in for a an offer at 900,000, so they very politely declined and said no thank you. They could walk away from that. A few months later, they got the offer for 1.15. And that was fine, they knew what the flaw was. This happens quite a lot, and understanding the numbers is so important. On the inverse, we've had situations where people have anchored to a number. Anick, Luke, we want three million, fine. But as you may know, when you get to due diligence and negotiation, it's tough and it's it takes a lot out of you. Going into that and knowing what your number is, how much you need, puts you in such a powerful dynamic when it comes to those negotiations.

Luke, 28m 26s:

Okay, what changes uh when you know your first two numbers? Um, the first one for me, ultimately, if you go into a negotiation and and you can walk away because you've done it well in advance, you've got a plan in place, you know what your numbers are, you're in a strong position. Um when you're setting your practice and it's not out of desperation, it's it's part of a wider plan. That's a much easier conversation to have. Number two, uh, you can plan a runway. Um, what does that look like? Well, again, if you if you're ahead of the game and you're and you're planning your exit, and you've got five years potentially uh to make some structural changes, to make some some some tweaks, uh, to lift the value uh of the practice. I would always encourage clients to be having conversations with agents uh a number of years prior to an exit so that they can have a good idea of what the market looks like and what their likely buyer. I know the market shifts, but what their likely buyer is, you know, what there's many different types of buyer, and it's it's important that you know who you're targeting, and therefore you can make changes to your practice in that time that that passes to optimise its value ultimately. Um but having the numbers in your back pocket really helps in that process. You can plan your tax. I touched on that earlier. Um, business asset disposal relief. Uh making the most of that, which for those that don't know, I'm sure many of you do, but that's capital gains tax uh and the the the uh the allowance that you have that's uh subject to a lower, albeit recently uplifted, uh amount of uh capital gains tax. Um used to be 10%, it's it's gone up to 18%. So you effectively get a million pounds per person of um business asset disposal relief, which uh is is at a lower capital gains tax rate than the full rate, which is 24. Um so again, it's important to have be having the conversations and make sure that structurally, in terms of your corporate structure, that you're in a good position to fully benefit from that, particularly if you've got a spouse that could possibly be involved in that process. Uh, pensions, gifting, the conversation I said earlier about long-term structure, if the money's going to end up back into uh it's gonna end up in trust or if it's gonna end up in an investment company, then maybe there's things that you want to do from a corporate structure perspective, and it's worth having those conversations with your accountant and a tax advisor ahead of time because the the later you leave that the the trickier it gets ultimately to make that the closer you get to an exit. Um you can stage your exit. There's nothing worse, I imagine, than uh leaving things right to the last minute, deciding that I'm gonna sell up, uh have a conversation, and uh you're then locked in for a period of time that you weren't uh counting on um because they want you to uh stay stay around for a period of uh a number of years after. Whereas if you've lined things up and you know and and you know um what that's going to be, then you you know you're going into that process fully uh prepared. I had a client who's hoping to finalise on a sal in the in the next couple of months who has managed to structure their practice, it's fully associate led, and there is no tie-in. She's uh once that deal goes gets across the line and touch wood, um, she will be able to walk away and and divert her uh attention elsewhere and she doesn't want to stay involved. But she's she's had that, you know, she's been prepared and she's going into that. Um you can stop overworking. Uh so if you know what your numbers are and you know what financial independence means, which for us is the number everybody's number one financial goal, is ultimately you're working it because you want to, not because you have to. You know, that that's that's that's the aim for everybody. And if you work out what your numbers are and you've achieved that point, then hanging on ultimately is it's a it's a choice. It might be it might not be an active choice because you've not given it enough attention, but it is a choice. Um you are you are still working when you could, if you do if you want to, stop. Um and you could be graver. What do I mean by that? Well, there might be projects that you've been putting off, there might be things that you love doing with your time that you much given that time is our most precious resource, that you'd rather pivot and and and and focus your attentions on. It could be philanthropy, it could be setting up a charity, it could be a hobby business, it could be anything. I've seen lots of different things. I've had clients completely change their actions. Um, had a client, one of my favourite is a is a client who uh retired and and retrained as a flight instructor because he he loved flying and now spends most of his weeks uh flying teaching him how to fly. Great, brilliant. Um, so it's just once you have that awareness uh and and you're making conscious decisions, then you can start thinking about what comes next because ultimately, as I said, time is our most precious resource, and you need to give some real thought to what you want to do with the time that you have left. So, an informed data, look, it doesn't have to take five years, okay? I've said that on the bottom there. Um, the time that you have is the time that you have, but in an ideal scenario, I'd love to meet people five years from an exit. It doesn't always work that way. In fact, three clients in in the not too distant past have come to me post-exit, and that's okay. You know, we'll still do a great a great job, we'll still do a comprehensive financial plan. Um, but in an ideal world, we have a run up to the exit and we have everything uh in in place. Um, we know the numbers, we've looked at the structure, we've strengthened things, we've been able to tidy everything up uh from a from a practice perspective. Uh you know, as you get closer to that exit, you're actually engaging with those agents to uh to look at listing the practice. Um, I do encourage, as I said earlier, people to have those conversations earlier with agents, not formally, but to really have that knowledge and an awareness of uh who you're selling to. Um and what an informed exit plan looks like. So for us, it's we go through a discovery process, we look at everything that you've got, we define the numbers, uh, we work out backwards in terms of what you need to exit, design the wrong way, and deliver and adjust. Uh, and then it's then about having regular planning meetings as things change, and they do change. Uh, and that could be as simple as you thought the price was agreed, and the bank comes in and does evaluation and the numbers shift. Uh, well, then we have to revisit what happens. So, five things to take home. Um, there's three numbers. Hopefully that's clear. Uh don't just obsess over the price. Uh look at behind the you know, the the real numbers that sit behind that. Um price chosen in isolation is a hope-not plan. Uh the biggest gains come from having the runway, definitely uh take that with you. Uh and if your numbers already work, then you know you you've you've earned the right to choose how you exit and when you exit. Uh and uh don't forget our number one principle where philosophy that sits behind everything we do is tie with our most pressure through source.

Anick, 35m 29s:

Just one last thought as we wrap up. If you knew your first two numbers tomorrow, what would you do differently? For some, that might be nothing. For others, it might spark a conversation, a change in structure, maybe a number you'd like to test. Whatever it is, the main value of the exercise is is just thinking about what clarity looks like for the future rather than the spreadsheet itself. And then finally, one final last thought. We love talking about how much enough is, and we actually wrote a book on it. Well, we we partnered with Paul who we wrote a book with. More than happy to share a free PDF of it and the slides. There's a QR code there. Drop us a message and we'll pass it on to you.

Luke, 36m 18s:

We're also, I mean, um there we go.

Speaker 2, 36m 22s:

Ladies and gentlemen, right on time. It has come to the time for workshop round three. In the main room, we have Vardis, Scott, Chanel's, and Jack Hannah. We also have Dr. Pav Tyra from the Academy of Implant Excellence. In room one, we have Dr. John Shaffer and Tracy Barnett from Active Aligners. In room two, Dr. Bobby Van Dow from Squat Success. Room three, Joe Lickrish and Myron Villain from Clix Dental. Room four, we have Emma Anastasi, Lamina Murray, and Lisa Baynum talking about the growth control room and a room five, emotional intelligence for success with Dr. Tony Kilcoy. Thank you.

Luke, 37m 37s:

That was quite late, but not so brief interview. Um the uh the main thing is look, if if um you may not be thinking of an exit, it's not really you know, we we'll have a conversation with anybody at any stage of life. Um, but if you want a book, if you want to have a chat, you know where to find us. Um we'll always hop on a on a Teams meeting with somebody and and and talk things through. Um so just feel free to reach out, we're very approachable. And we'll um yeah, we'll we'll see what we can do. Um the book is very good as well, by the way. So yeah. Any questions? We're very, very tight in time. Yeah.

Speaker 5, 38m 11s:

Let's call we got our number and we were in the five-year plan.

Luke, 38m 14s:

Yeah.

Speaker 5, 38m 15s:

Just left and the middle of the plan, 30 year four years.

Luke, 38m 19s:

Yeah.

Speaker 5, 38m 19s:

So it changes, but that number changes. What would you want? And with a change of plan.

Luke, 38m 26s:

I mean, plans change all the time. Plans change after one month, two months, three months. That's the point of planning. For us, the plan is not a is not a one-off exercise. We work with clients on an ongoing basis, and quite for us, the numbers have changed, we hop on. We use software, so we we use software to chart somebody's trajectory. Every year for the rest of their lives, we plan ultimately. And so if if the numbers change, we hop on, we run the new numbers, and that's where the peace of mind and the confidence comes from. Um so we just fully expect it to change, that's what I would say.

Anick, 38m 58s:

Just on that as well, you we we've never set up a business plan in year one and never come back to it. Financial planning is exactly the same, it will inevitably change, life throws its curveballs. So the the value is in that ongoing planning, but checking in, recalibrating, and making sure that everything is aligned as life will inevitably change.